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you don't stop to Disbelieve, you get a will save to Disbelieve whenever you interact with the Illusion.
Illusionary monsters are interacted with quite a bit in combat.
Walls and things, not so much, but again you touch it, yell at it, etc, and get the will save to disbelieve.
Although, as GM it's his place to say "you have to use a standard action to focus on disbelieveing" , that's just a terrible House rule In my honest Opinion.
so In short: you interact with it (beyond just looking at it), you get the save.
I do not think yelling at it would give you a save. All the other stuff would though.

gustavo iglesias |

Key words here: Mind affecting. If you create the tower as mentioned before with silent image, it's affecting the minds of those that encounter the area of effect of the spell.
Silent Image isn't mind affecting. It's a figment, and figments and glammers aren't mind affecting, patterns and phantasms are.
Silen't image isn't more mind affecting than using a holographic projector. It alter's the image itself, not the mind of the people watching it.

Heimdall666 |
Yeah I realized after I posted my silent image reference was incorrect, it should be anything glamer. I know its complicated, but otherwise it sucks the creative soul out of every illusionist out there. If you dont house rule it, it will be a problem. I have played in sanctioned GenCon events where illusionists weren't allowed, nor the spells, and in the rare instance they were, every single GM ruled them differently. Cmon, if a modern day magician can make a learjet disappear I should be able to make a dragon pop up and eat someone. Pathfinder does Illusionists no favors unless you go heavily into shadow, and why do that when you can use the real thing as a same level wizard?

Orfamay Quest |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Yeah I realized after I posted my silent image reference was incorrect, it should be anything glamer.
Glamer spells aren't mind-affecting, either. Glamers are if anything more limited than figments, because glamers can simply change the appearance of what's out there. (Your beer's too warm? Use a glamer spell to make it seem colder.) But you can't make something out of nothing with such a spell.
I know its complicated,
IMHO, it's not complicated, but wrong.
Cmon, if a modern day magician can make a learjet disappear I should be able to make a dragon pop up and eat someone. Pathfinder does Illusionists no favors unless you go heavily into shadow, and why do that when you can use the real thing as a same level wizard?
Well, illusion is about misdirection (just as real stage magic is); it's a different style of play. If you want to summon a dragon, use a conjuration spell. If you want to throw a fireball, use an evocation spell.
As a rule of thumb, a skilled illusionist will almost never cast a spell directly on an opponent or attack an opponent directly. A skilled illusionist doesn't need to. A skilled illustionist will walk right through your elaborate web of security and do what she wants and you'll never even get a saving throw, because you won't even know to interact with her illusions. You'll see what you expect to see, and die from the mundane poison she put into your glass. You'll talk to a person who's not even there, and miss the cobra sitting under your chair as you do it. You'll see what she wants you to be distracted by, and completely miss her stealing the keys to your treasure vaults. You'll look for her where she isn't and ignore the dusty closet she's standing in. You and all your guards will rush to the fire alarm on the wrong side of the manor house and leave the door wide open to her henchmen. And you'll never know that any of this happened until it was too late.
And as to why use shadows? Flexibility. One spell fills the role of fifty.

Orfamay Quest |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

Further to previous:
The way to make an illusionist effective is basically a three-step process.
1) Ask yourself "what's the absolute stupidest thing the bad guys could do?" What is the worst possible action they could take? Charge in between the barbarian and the rogue, so they're flanked? Ignore the half-dragon alchemist until he can get into breath weapon position? Have the cleric waste a turn on a totally ineffective action? Et cetera.
2) Ask yourself "what would cause them to do something so astonishingly stupid of their own free will?" Obviously, the cleric would waste a turn channeling energy only if there were a bigger threat from some undead than from you guys.
3) Make that happen. The army of spectres your mage just "summoned" will draw the cleric's ire away from the alchemist, and if you place them right, maybe you can make sure his cavalier charges the spectre lord in just the right place.
And best of all, no one gets a save because they're not interacting with the spectres until it's too late and they've done the stupid thing you wanted them to. Of their own free will.