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Ive got a player who wants to train some dogs with Handle Animal to work as a K9 unit with the town guard. its fine with me, but it seems like a very long venture for something that in all honesty, is rather insignificant.
Normally, teaching an animal a trick takes a weeks worth of work, with the check needing to meet the DC of the trick in order for the animal to learn it.
I am considering allowing him to hurry through the process by making the DC higher, though i dont know how much higher to set it.
Does cutting the training time to 3 days for DC +5 sound reasonable?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Depends what he wants thos dogs to do. Real K-9 dogs are trained over months, not days. If all he wants is a dog that will accompany a handler on a leash and bark whenever he senses something, very little training needed. If, however, he wants a dog that is highly trained, will respond to a variety of voice commands, and will remain under control even when off the leash, then I would recommend against cutting the training time.
And don't knock what guard dogs can offer. The Scent ability, when combined with a human handler's ability to think, represents a significant upgrade in the ability to detect stealthy intruders. People are afraid of big dogs, so they are also good for crowd control. Specially trained dogs are also good at contraband detection. And finally, their trip ability makes them a valuable ally in fights, and in chasing down fleeing bad guys.
What about him teaching the guards how to train and bond with their dogs properly in the few days available, then if they come back to town a few months later they can see the k-9's in action.
Or, if this is time sensitive for a specific goal, using the push command handle animal option to get the scent tracking and tripping down for the encounter in question.
Ive got a player who wants to train some dogs with Handle Animal to work as a K9 unit with the town guard. its fine with me, but it seems like a very long venture for something that in all honesty, is rather insignificant.
Normally, teaching an animal a trick takes a weeks worth of work, with the check needing to meet the DC of the trick in order for the animal to learn it.
I am considering allowing him to hurry through the process by making the DC higher, though i dont know how much higher to set it.
Does cutting the training time to 3 days for DC +5 sound reasonable?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Half time for +5 DC sounds okay.
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Im definitely not knocking what a well trained guard dog can do, but most of what you (Brian) posted deals with real-life issues that dogs can handle, whereas, in PF/DnD-land, people have all sorts of ways (magic, big weapons, etc) of dealing with dogs in no time flat.
While the guard dogs might be handy in regards other than Scent at the first few levels, after lvl 4ish, they arent worth much more than their nose can offer.
Im definitely not knocking what a well trained guard dog can do, but most of what you (Brian) posted deals with real-life issues that dogs can handle, whereas, in PF/DnD-land, people have all sorts of ways (magic, big weapons, etc) of dealing with dogs in no time flat.
While the guard dogs might be handy in regards other than Scent at the first few levels, after lvl 4ish, they arent worth much more than their nose can offer.
You're quite correct in that they aren't worth much for higher level characters and the threats they are likely to face. You never indicated what level your players are at. However, to some degree that is irrelevant to your player's apparent intent. He isn't creating them for his own use, he wants them for his presumably low-level town guards, who would presumably be facing much lesser challenges (or are doomed to horrible deaths with or without the dogs).
I take it your objection is to the in-game time this will take for something that won't directly impact the actual adventure or help the characters in any way. I have two responses to that.
First is that it's his character, and if he wants to waste his time that should be his prerogative. Different case if it is wasting everybody else's time, but presumably the other players aren't mute and can express their opinion about whether they want to hang out and do other stuff while he is training dogs. Peer pressure should take care of it if it is a problem, unless he's one of those people who just doesn't care about the rest of the group so long as he gets to do what he wants.
Second, I actually kind of like players who come up with stuff like this, rather than just concentrating only on the direct mission and/or improving their character. It offers roleplaying opportunities and shows the players are actually interacting with the world around them in logical ways rather than just treating it as a game. That's a compliment to you as a DM, as it means you have managed to make your gameworld immersive enough that your players are treating their characters like real people rather than just as pieces in a game.
Im definitely not knocking what a well trained guard dog can do, but most of what you (Brian) posted deals with real-life issues that dogs can handle, whereas, in PF/DnD-land, people have all sorts of ways (magic, big weapons, etc) of dealing with dogs in no time flat.
While the guard dogs might be handy in regards other than Scent at the first few levels, after lvl 4ish, they arent worth much more than their nose can offer.
I saw a pit bull totally kill a tarrasque once.
Or maybe it was a pit fiend. So hard to keep them apart.
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KaeYoss, lol.
Brian, its partially that. Im trying to make the game immersive, thoguh we have just started, 3rd session is this weekend, Rise of the Runelords.
I want him to be immersed, as well as the others, and all of them have come up with some sort of day job for themselves (actress, street performer, apprentice potioneer, amateur brewer, farm hand, dog trainer, and missionary?), but Im hoping to avoid him getting drustrated cause it takes so long to fully combat train a dog that he just says 'screw it' and decides to come up with something else.
His line of reasoning is that if Sandpoint has regular problems with goblins, who are afraid of dogs, why arent they using a K9 unit. Makes sense to me, so he is trying to take advantage of the situation and help out, and make a little extra gp on the side.
Im beginning to think a progressively more difficult plus to the mod might be more realisitic. You could probably rush a dog through one trick, but for each additional one, it should be a little bit harder, as the dog is only so smart.
Also, maybe 3 days is too short. Right now Im thinking 5 days for a rush, with the increasing difficulty mod adding to the trick DC.
KaeYoss, lol.
Brian, its partially that. Im trying to make the game immersive, thoguh we have just started, 3rd session is this weekend, Rise of the Runelords.
I want him to be immersed, as well as the others, and all of them have come up with some sort of day job for themselves (actress, street performer, apprentice potioneer, amateur brewer, farm hand, dog trainer, and missionary?), but Im hoping to avoid him getting drustrated cause it takes so long to fully combat train a dog that he just says 'screw it' and decides to come up with something else.
His line of reasoning is that if Sandpoint has regular problems with goblins, who are afraid of dogs, why arent they using a K9 unit. Makes sense to me, so he is trying to take advantage of the situation and help out, and make a little extra gp on the side.
Im beginning to think a progressively more difficult plus to the mod might be more realisitic. You could probably rush a dog through one trick, but for each additional one, it should be a little bit harder, as the dog is only so smart.
Also, maybe 3 days is too short. Right now Im thinking 5 days for a rush, with the increasing difficulty mod adding to the trick DC.
Sounds reasonable. Been a long time since I read RORL and I never played it. Are they on a timeline? If not, the wonderful thing about game time is that it doesn't have to take a lot of real time. The GM can always compress it. Want to spend a month training a dog? As long as there is nothing else important going on that month, just wave a hand and a month passes magically, leaving you with a trained dog. If there is a timeline that has to be adhered to, of course, then this gets more difficult. One suggestion for him would be that, if his character doesn't have all the time necessary himself, he could partner with an NPC who has infinite time. One of my players is doing that currently in Kingmaker - his NPC partner runs his blacksmith shop while he is out adventuring and exploring.
Training a dog to attack goblins shouldn't be that difficult of a task(DC), especially since their goal is likely a dead goblin, not a prisoner.
My thought would be to emphasize fluff(plot device) over crunch(training), placing it in the background and contributing a portion of the grim discoveries that take place to "a guard and his newly trained hound have reported blah-blah-blah." The farm on the southwest of town was attacked by goblins, "and they would've gotten away with it to if it hadn't been for those guards and that stupid dog!"
I found Sandpoint didn't last nearly as long as I would've liked it to. I had hopes of converting a certain underground ruins into my paladin's "secret lair"... right before we left for Magnimaar and then eventually to the distant West. Only being halfway through the AP currently, it doesn't look like we will be going back to Sandpoint anytime soon. :/
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Dogs wont be trained quick enough for them to be used for the Grimm News part of the first mod, though it's a good thought.
Im hoping I can keep my players more attatched to the town and immediate area, opposed to completely moving their 'homebase' to this place in the later mods, once it becomes an option.