First, take the internet experts with a grain of salt.
There are a number of people who like to make extreme claims about things (like Wizard supremacy), but in my experience this comes down to a style-of-play issue. It doesn't sound like those are the symptoms you are experiencing though.
As for generic advice:
I'm a Runelords GM, and in the second half of the AP so far, the players have really had to learn how to prioritize. Kick-in-the-door style play has forced them to retreat so often that they actually changed the party lineup to include more stealth and trap-finding capability.
As a player in these situations, you really need to consider your resources — especially the casters — especially if your GM has "reactive" dungeons where you can't just rest and expect everything to stay put. Your casters should really be reserving their best spells, even if they have the perfect spell for a situation, chances are there is a mundane solution and the other PCs can deal with it.
You should be looking to bypass encounters when possible, rather than taking everything head on. This means reconnaissance is important, even if it means extra time gathering info and scrounging up knowledge rolls.
Well, those are my thoughts. If you want more detailed advice, feel free to elaborate on the problems you've been having.
My group and I are playing rise of the runelords and are on the 5th book (a level 14 adventure for 4 players), and constantly we get your butts handed to us. I myself have been playing Dnd for 12 years, other people have been playing for 10 years or so. So we should have our stuff together right? That's what I thought.
I have heard recently (though have been unable to verify) that experienced groups do things much differently then what we do, such as not healing in battle and other such things. Our group consists of a fighter 6/inquister 6, a rogue lvl 12, a negative channeling cleric lvl 12, a mystic threurge lvl 12 using words of power, a lvl 12 chiruegon, and a lvl 12 wizard.
What happens most of the time is that we roll up on the encounter not stealthing, not having the rogue take point, etc (and other such obvious stuff that we as a group are going to identify and change). So the first thing that happens is that we get mowed down, characters dying. Then we spend the next few rounds getting back on our feet, then killing the monsters. There has got to be a different way.
What I am wondering is experienced, advanced tactics. Like that experienced groups never heal in battle. Is this true and if so, then how is it accomplished? And what else do experienced advanced players do that others less experienced do not? What should done in battle, before initial contact, during the fight, and even after? Or is Rise of the Runelords that ridiculously hard? Or is it because instead of being level 14 we are level 12 (even with 6 players).
So please, let me know your experienced, advanced advice. What works for you, what works with your group, and what even works for a higher level classic party of fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard. Thank you.
I am from the "do not heal in battle group". That does not mean I never do, but it does mean it is very rare, and it only happens when the dice gods turn against us, and in some boss fights. In order to not heal in battle requires good builds, and tactics though.
Your stealth/perception player should be taking point. The fighter should have a high AC. At level 14 I am guessing at least a 34.The cleric and mystic theurge can do a number of things depending on how it is built, but I would need more info to determine how to best use him.
The wizard should be buffing/debuffing/battle field control
I have no idea what a chiruegon is.
If you could describe one of the battles your group had that would help.
Regarding combat healing:
Every round your cleric spends healing is a round he's neither casting buffs nor attacking anyone. Buffing the party can both prevent the damage directly (by raising AC, granting damage resistances/reductions, or creating miss chances, or somesuch) and reduces the time it takes the party to defeat the opposition, further reducing the overall damage taken by the party. A buffed cleric wading into melee also facilitates the foes going down quicker, which also means less rounds the enemies can take hits at the party = less damage to the party overall.
Heals are, purely mathematically, the weakest option a cleric can take. It doesn't mean they are never useful, but they should be reserved for really dire twists of fate when the dice refuse to cooperate and everything goes south. As long as things are going as planned, there are better things for a cleric to do during the encounter.
I will say I play no healing till the end of combat, although certainly with exceptions. I find that spending a turn to buff/stun/cast/bash the bad guys is often more economical than healing unless it's a dire situation.
How often are you guys buffing and tactically supporting each other? Do you feel like each player is more concerned with their character or the party as a whole?
I have found the reason most groups I have played in TPK'd was due to priorities, most often in the sense that the players were too busy getting ready for their turn to think of the most beneficial action to the group. I know people will argue that they a player should be able to do whatever they want, I agree to a certain extent, it is after all a "team sport".
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fighter 6/inquister 6,
rogue lvl 12,
negative channeling cleric lvl 12,
mystic threurge lvl 12 using words of power
lvl 12 chiruegon
lvl 12 wizard
looks like a solid party, in my opinion. Since you asked for specifics, here goes:
I typically never go more than 60' or so feet, in dungeon style, or the next door/intersection. That allows for a tactical withdrawal, the rest of the party can get their in 1 turn, and you don't go out too far on your own. Outside, or in a larger environment, you can spread that out a bit more, especially if you're at >30' movement (like being mounted)
Invisibility on a wand costs 4500 for 50 3 min "scout sorties". Invisibility on a ring costs 20,000 for all the time "can't see me." Either is fantastic, so long as the party healer can still locate the rogue if need be. Silence, Haste, Expeditious Retreat, and anything that can up his Perception and/or Stealth checks will help out as well.
Other than that, long-term buffs, like Longstrider, Barkskin, or Spider Climb all make for great Rogue spells. (consider odd approaches, if possible. Very few humanoids actively check the ceiling, and will not usually expect someone crawling there stealthed)
12th level means 6th level spells.
Off the bat, Hero's Feast, Wind Walk, and Planar Ally are all great Cleric spells, with multi-bonus buffing, excellent long-term mobility, and long-term Called allies.
For Wizard spells, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, Greater Heroism, Acid Fog and Wall of Iron are great. Party buff, Line-of-Sight control (with minor damage thrown in), Crowd Control, and reality shaping powers (don't target enemies with Disintegrate, except for Constructs/Undead...much better to sink boats, get you through castle walls, create instant pits, etc) are really key.
Also, Summon Monster gets you meatshields who don't need to be healed, can often hit quite nicely, can frequently use spells or Spell Like Abilities you wouldn't ordinarily have, and can be had by ANY caster. I like summons, a lot.
Illusions, if you want to go that route, can also turn the tide of battles. Why summon something smallish and relatively innocuous when you can pretend to summon Rovagug himself. With the right creative application and spell selection (just be sure to read the descriptions of the spells, and the entire Illusion school thoroughly before trying this trick.)
Anything that will increase your mobility, communications, and perception abilities. Wands of See Invisibility (again, 4500 gp for "Rogue beats Wizard"), Invisibility, Spider Climb, and the like are very nice. The aformentioned Ring of Invisibility will be very nice, as would a Ring of Freedom of Movement. Of course, the standard Amulet of Natural Armor, Rings of Protection, Cloak of Resistance, Enchanted Armor, and Stat Boosters (belt/headbands) are key to success.
This will depend a LOT on just what kind of caster you're talking about. Clerics and the like tend to buff themselves & slap status effects or Save or Die type spells on you. If given the opportunity, they then bash/chop/stab you into pieces (or let their newly augmented buddies do so.)
Wizards/Sorcerers/Psions tend to focus more on Area Control or Direct Damage spells. Fog Cloud and Fireball are two classic examples.
The key to defeating a Cleric/Buffer type character is to ride out the Save or Dies while forcing him to "waste" his magic defending himself/fixing the problems you just made/saving his buddies. If you can make him, say, Cure Light Wounds, Mass, you just prevented the baddy from using a 5th level spell to nail you (like Slay Living or Righteous Might.)
Preparation here means you nail him before (or while) he casts his buff spells, and force him onto a defensive position.
Against Wizards, the same general strategy applies. Hit them where they're weakest, and force them to use their magic to save their own hides.
Summon Monster is one of the best spells out there, because of its versatility. It takes a full round to cast, though. When you see the dude in the pointy hat waving his hands, nail him with arrows, channels, melee attacks, or whatever you have. The more Concentration checks you can force, the better your odds.
When faced with the (inevitable at higher levels) Mirror Image'd, Shield'd, Mage Armored, Greater Insvisible, Flying dude, remember that Dispel Magic is your friend. Anything you can do to take away his miss chances, temporary HP, con-boosting effects, and/or resistance bonuses is fantastic. Waves of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, tanglefoot bags, Bestow Curse, and the like are all great, especially if you can stack a few effects on there.
Sickened + Entangled + Fatigued = Sad, sad wizard. You can then make him less sad by sharing your sharp, pointy metal bits with him.
Finally, for more specific spell/mage tips, this is an excellent resource
From what you describe, it sounds like y’all can kick-a** but it takes too long for you to get going. Good advice above about being proactive with recon and buffs. That will only go so far however, eventually you’ll get jumped.
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Without a lot of details on the party’s builds, the fights, ect, here is some advice on what to look at.
Improve your defenses namely AC, HP and saves, but also resistances and even fortifications for when you rest – that sort of thing. (At this point the PCs have plenty reason to be paranoid). This can be done through various means, feats, magic items, ect. Focus on mitigating your weaknesses and just generally making yourselves hard to kill. The goal is to avoid having to rely so heavily on healing and give yourselves more wiggle-room when your best laid plans do what best laid plans do – fail.
Improve your knowledge and communication. You want at least one (preferably two or more) PCs to have a good chance of identifying any monster you encounter. Remember to make those skill checks and communicate the monsters’ weaknesses and/or abilities to the other PCs asap every fight. It’s also critical that the PCs are talking tactics every round and synergize their actions. Be aware of how each other’s abilities work. When deciding your action each round, focus on creating the optimal situation for everyone to utilize their relevant abilities at the highest potential. Or said another way, work your best game without c*ck-blocking anyone else and take one for the team every once and awhile.
Audit the character sheets and copy them to fresh sheets. Even experienced players make mistakes. (At least I’d like to think it’s not just me.) Many PF class abilities, feats, ect. get increases at higher levels. I’ve been bitten by forgetting the “this bonus increases to +X at level X” part of some ability I got 5 levels ago before or even just forgetting that extra skill point every level from the human racial trait – stuff like that. It’s also not unheard of to forget about item or two scrawled in an odd place on the character sheet. “Oh yeah, we could’ve used that when… [muttered cursing]”.