magnuskn |
seekerofshadowlight wrote:The Roinin order is a mess and not a great Idea for an order really.Being a Ronin isn't supposed to be desirable. It's supposed to be a consolation until you get hired by another lord.
This.
Also, heirloom weapon as an alternative for the mount, please!
Helaman |
Gregg Reece wrote:seekerofshadowlight wrote:The Roinin order is a mess and not a great Idea for an order really.Being a Ronin isn't supposed to be desirable. It's supposed to be a consolation until you get hired by another lord.This.
Also, heirloom weapon as an alternative for the mount, please!
Not all Samurai would have a father to son heirloom weapon... and an heirloom weapon is purchasable with the right trait (I do hope it makes its way into a mainstream book as the APG left it out).
I suggest making some sort of mounted featability - even if its mounted archery - as the level 1 thing. With cavilier the wow is in the beast and the knight works with that... with the Sammy, the wow should be in the warrior, and the mount is just a piece of equipment... and you can say that mounted archery (or whatever) was something that (in Golarion) all Samurai practiced because it was considered an accomplishment of the caste/class.
magnuskn |
magnuskn wrote:Also, heirloom weapon as an alternative for the mount, please!Not all Samurai would have a father to son heirloom weapon... and an heirloom weapon is purchasable with the right trait (I do hope it makes its way into a mainstream book as the APG left it out).
That's why I want it as an alternative to the mount, not as a replacement.
And with "heirloom weapon", I mean something which starts out as masterwork and then gets magical later on as a class feature, so that the Samurai can keep his family inheritance as his main weapon. Not the trait from the Adventurer's Armory.
Helaman |
Why should it get magical later on? If you want to play a Samurai in western lands then part of the cross you bear is a lack of magical katana lying around... if in a Tian Xia campaign they should be as common as a magical bastard sword or Longsword.
That samurai never changed from their ancestral weapon is an incorrect concept. Katana were given as gifts from leige lords from time to time or gifts from one warrior to another as a sign of esteem or even bought anew when the family sword was damaged. If a Samurai found a magical Katana he could change to that weapon without shame at all.
The goal is to make Samurai and Cavilier BALANCE against each other.
While the Paladin has a weapon enchantment OR mount choice mechanic, the duration is limited as are its times per day... and for the Paladin, its a level 4 class feature. If the Samurai (and I am ok with it - we can call it Ki Infusion or something) was to use the same feature, 1st level is *not* the time to have it come into effect... and the Samurai is ALREADY edging out the Cavilier with its additional Exotic weapon proficiency AND the ability to take fighter feats against the caviliers sub-prime Expert Trainer class feature.
I keep saying - please - lets balance the classes. Apples to Apples comparisions with not only the Cavilier but other classes you may want to draw from MUST be done, otherwise its power creep, pure and simple.
Merlin_47 |
Yes, more changes would be wonderful for the Samurai. I'd like to see different fighting variants and not just horseback. Yes, historically, they were mounted warriors, but eventually, they ditched the mounted combat aspect and became peerless warriors in melee.
As for the "bonded weapon" that the Paladin gets, no...do NOT give this to the Samurai. For the paladin, fine...whatever...but I though it was complete garbage when WotC put it on their Samurai. No, I'd rather have an option to choose between horseback OR having a fighting style a la the Ranger.
Because as it has already been said, the only reason why I don't see any Cavaliers is because of the mounted aspect of the class. Don't do the same to the Samurai, please.
Kenjishinomouri |
Yes, more changes would be wonderful for the Samurai. I'd like to see different fighting variants and not just horseback. Yes, historically, they were mounted warriors, but eventually, they ditched the mounted combat aspect and became peerless warriors in melee.
As for the "bonded weapon" that the Paladin gets, no...do NOT give this to the Samurai. For the paladin, fine...whatever...but I though it was complete garbage when WotC put it on their Samurai. No, I'd rather have an option to choose between horseback OR having a fighting style a la the Ranger.
Because as it has already been said, the only reason why I don't see any Cavaliers is because of the mounted aspect of the class. Don't do the same to the Samurai, please.
I agree bonded weapon is, well boring, as for combat style we already have the weapon expertise thing they get so I feel a combat style would be too good for the class. The non-mount alternative should be something that compliments one of their existing abilities but doesn't over power that ability.
Merlin_47 |
I agree bonded weapon is, well boring, as for combat style we already have the weapon expertise thing they get so I feel a combat style would be too good for the class. The non-mount alternative should be something that compliments one of their existing abilities but doesn't over power that ability.
I wouldn't mind dropping the Weapon Expertise in favor of fighting styles. I hear what you're saying and both together would be too good.
Muser |
I'm torn over whether I'd like having a heirloom or signature weapon class feature in the class writeup. First of all, I'd like to keep the samurai, like the cavalier class itself, completely without supernatural abilities. This includes having a weapon bond feature. Secondly, I think too many classes already feature a similar mechanic as it is. Paladins have it, bards and magi too, so I'd prefer samurai to have something else. The novelty is wearing off.
Not to mention, weapon mastery is something the fighter class is built on and indeed wandering bushis with cool katana-abilities, such as Zatoichi or the like, are better served by the Weapon Master fighter archetype. Imagine dropping the archetype into a setting where his signature weapon is the one most in use and think of the havoc that would ensue. I think the class features there already greatly portray the kind of sword saint tropes that we associate with pop-culture samurai. Penetrating strike, Combat Patrol, Wind Stance etc, all those extraordinary abilities gained through feats apply.
So, forcing those abilities on the samurai is unfair for both the fighter and the cavalier. I think samurais are fine as it is, but I would go even further on basing the character on honor and status. Sure, we already have cavalier orders, paladin codes, monk vows and that jazz where such antics are important, but that is very much just fluff on top of justifying an alignment and +4 skill points. Instead, the resolve class ability is a great idea that should get more attention.
I'm a bit worried that this would phase out the battle herald prestige class, but please bear with me, I'll try to suggest something a bit different. Now, one way of separating the samurai from bulk cavaliers would be to build on the resolve features. Not in the sense of making the class a mental fortress, since the system doesn't currently have other mechanics for portraying mental strength than will saves and saves in general and massing bonuses to those in the samurai class would be stepping on the toes of the monk and the barbarian.
Rather, consider for a moment the samurai as a leader of the military unit and a paragon of tradition. Honor in all things and he expects it from his men/party as well. Make the honor a tappable thing like some supernatural abilities. Allow samurais to use resolve to fortify others as well and give unquestionable commands to those on the lower rung. Here we have a class whose traditions run centuries deep and are bedecked in hierarchy and rule systems. Make the class to reflect that.
However the problem is creating a system that is not based on stats. We already have a wealth of classes where their signature ability slews point buy builds in a harsh fashion and, like with the ninja, coining a class which has had so many different iterations during it's career in a stat like Charisma or Wisdom will become a point of struggle for many people. So having point pool like the monk is probably out of the question unless they implement something similar to the Gunslinger grit, which agains steps on yet another class' toes.
Then perhaps just make the samurai emit command rings or auras that he can turn on and off, somewhat like what bards do, but make them (Ex) and resourceless, so no rounds per day. Of course, since you are now giving the class effectively free boni to give to the whole party whereass bards have to(at least for the first few levels) struggle with rounds, have them be keyed to level and instead of giving flat bonuses to damage/to-hit make them build off the Tactician feature as well.
Have different resolve, heck why not call it "Bushido", abilities that are gained with levels and allow the samurai to grant those abilities to her soldiers a la Teamwork feats. Changing from aura to aura might be a standard action at first, with higher levels in the class giving the ability to grant several auras at a time and eventually moving to swift actions. Two at level 8, three at 12 etc. Basically the paladin aura ability, but refluffed to fit the samurai and less potent due to no alignment or rounds restriction.
Some ideas:
- Resolve of Focus: The samurai reminds her allies of their competence. Using this resolve allows the samurai or any of his allies to reroll any one of her missed attacks as an immediate action once per combat. For every six samurai levels you can reroll another missed attack per combat.
- Resolve of Status: Standing tall, the samurai is a bastion of status who bolsters her allies and makes enemies tremble. Using this resolve grants the samurai or his allies a +1 competence bonus to Intimidate checks and +2 competence bonus to Will saves against fear and despair effects in combat. For every three samurai levels these bonuses increase by 1.
- Resolve of Killing: The samurai is infused with the spirit of swift death, from whom no retreat is possible. This resolve allows the samurai and her allies to make 1 more attack of opportunity in combat and bestows +1 competence bonus to critical confirmation rolls. For every six levels above the the fourth, the samurai or her allies can make another attack of opportunity and the bonus to confirmation rolls increases by 1.
- Resolve of Hardening: Unfazed till death claims her, the samurai is like a fortress against the blows of her enemies. In her presence none shall fall. Using this resolve grants the samurai and her allies +5 temporary hitpoints in combat and +1 bonus in rolls to stabilize. For every six levels these temporary hitpoints increase by 5 and the bonus to stabilization rolls by 1.
Sorry for the rambling there. So, good, bad or could be used with a marshall archetype instead, anyone?
EDIT: Realised that these abilites could be keyed to the banner, but I'm not so comfortable with samurais carrying out that banner, especially if not on a mission or other duty. Still, perhaps carrying a banner would increase the radii of the resolves From 30 ft. to 60 ft. perhaps?