What if instead of Fighter (or Ranger), the Gunslinger was an Alchemist alternative class? We could call it a Black Powder Mage or Bullet Mage. I would pull out poison use and mutagens, and replace them with appropriate Gunslinger feats and intelligence based grit. Instead of bombs, the class would construct and enhance bullets.
1st: Grit & Deeds instead of Mutagen. Gunslinger instead of Throw Anything.
2nd: Point Blank Shot & Rapid Reload instead of Poison Resistance & Poison Use
3rd: Precise Shot & Deeds instead of Swift Alchemy
6th: Fast Bullets (functioning as Fast Bombs) instead of Swift Poisoning
7th: Deeds
8th: Gun Mastery (functioning as Crossbow Mastery[would lower reloading a musket to a swift action])
Unlike bombs, bullets would generally not have area of effects. So, Smoke, Incendiary, Poison & Stink Bullets would be limited to the square of the target that takes a direct hit from the bullet. Further, because an Alchemist could presumably make gunpowder, the cost would be reduced to 5gp per shot. I would consider a Discovery that allowed the Alchemist to load and fire without using gunpowder; instead the explosive power would be generated by the enhanced bullet.
From looking at the classes, I have the feeling Paizo would prefer class mechanics over mandatory feats. The former is more flavorful and creative. So, I could see removing a few of the feats (Point Blank, Rapid, & Precise) for a mechanic. For example, when the Alchemist gains Poison Resistance, he instead can take a move action to gain an "aiming bonus" to his attack roll. Mechanically, this would effectively offset the penalty for throwing into melee or make a very deadly sniper.
What if instead of Fighter (or Ranger), the Gunslinger was an Alchemist alternative class? We could call it a Black Powder Mage or Bullet Mage. I would pull out poison use and mutagens, and replace them with appropriate Gunslinger feats and intelligence based grit. Instead of bombs, the class would construct and enhance bullets.
1st: Grit & Deeds instead of Mutagen. Gunslinger instead of Throw Anything.
2nd: Point Blank Shot & Rapid Reload instead of Poison Resistance & Poison Use
3rd: Precise Shot & Deeds instead of Swift Alchemy
6th: Fast Bullets (functioning as Fast Bombs) instead of Swift Poisoning
7th: Deeds
8th: Gun Mastery (functioning as Crossbow Mastery[would lower reloading a musket to a swift action])Unlike bombs, bullets would generally not have area of effects. So, Smoke, Incendiary, Poison & Stink Bullets would be limited to the square of the target that takes a direct hit from the bullet. Further, because an Alchemist could presumably make gunpowder, the cost would be reduced to 5gp per shot. I would consider a Discovery that allowed the Alchemist to load and fire without using gunpowder; instead the explosive power would be generated by the enhanced bullet.
From looking at the classes, I have the feeling Paizo would prefer class mechanics over mandatory feats. The former is more flavorful and creative. So, I could see removing a few of the feats (Point Blank, Rapid, & Precise) for a mechanic. For example, when the Alchemist gains Poison Resistance, he instead can take a move action to gain an "aiming bonus" to his attack roll. Mechanically, this would effectively offset the penalty for throwing into melee or make a very deadly sniper.
Here is mine
Here.
What if instead of Fighter (or Ranger), the Gunslinger was an Alchemist alternative class? We could call it a Black Powder Mage or Bullet Mage. I would pull out poison use and mutagens, and replace them with appropriate Gunslinger feats and intelligence based grit. Instead of bombs, the class would construct and enhance bullets.
1st: Grit & Deeds instead of Mutagen. Gunslinger instead of Throw Anything.
2nd: Point Blank Shot & Rapid Reload instead of Poison Resistance & Poison Use
3rd: Precise Shot & Deeds instead of Swift Alchemy
6th: Fast Bullets (functioning as Fast Bombs) instead of Swift Poisoning
7th: Deeds
8th: Gun Mastery (functioning as Crossbow Mastery[would lower reloading a musket to a swift action])Unlike bombs, bullets would generally not have area of effects. So, Smoke, Incendiary, Poison & Stink Bullets would be limited to the square of the target that takes a direct hit from the bullet. Further, because an Alchemist could presumably make gunpowder, the cost would be reduced to 5gp per shot. I would consider a Discovery that allowed the Alchemist to load and fire without using gunpowder; instead the explosive power would be generated by the enhanced bullet.
From looking at the classes, I have the feeling Paizo would prefer class mechanics over mandatory feats. The former is more flavorful and creative. So, I could see removing a few of the feats (Point Blank, Rapid, & Precise) for a mechanic. For example, when the Alchemist gains Poison Resistance, he instead can take a move action to gain an "aiming bonus" to his attack roll. Mechanically, this would effectively offset the penalty for throwing into melee or make a very deadly sniper.
i suggested the same thing in another thread,it only makes sense, The gun wielder class, or whatever you end up calling it will work much better as an alchemist alternate class than as a fighter.
What if instead of Fighter (or Ranger), the Gunslinger was an Alchemist alternative class?
This is a good suggestion.
Great minds think alike. :)
.
2
...
....
.....
Hell yes
.
2
...
....
.....
Hell yes
Alchemist Kit becomes Gun Cleaning Kit etc
Love it
i suggested the same thing in another thread,it only makes sense, The gun wielder class, or whatever you end up calling it will work much better as an alchemist alternate class than as a fighter.
I am not necessarily opposed to a fighter gun-using archtype. I think a musketeer would be fabulous. That would resolve some of the gunslingers issues. However, an alchemist makes more sense to me both in world terms and in game play.
i suggested the same thing in another thread,it only makes sense, The gun wielder class, or whatever you end up calling it will work much better as an alchemist alternate class than as a fighter.I am not necessarily opposed to a fighter gun-using archtype. I think a musketeer would be fabulous. That would resolve some of the gunslingers issues. However, an alchemist makes more sense to me both in world terms and in game play.
would be way more fun to play as an alchemist, waaaaay.
Funny you say this I have a mad scientist / artificer/ steam punk concept I want to play and now I am thinking of dual classing into gunslinger.... Problem is I still want bombs...I could care less about mutagens...but the bombs fit my steam punk concept well, and I love the thought of some madly jiggered together fire arm over a standard repeating crosssbow.
.
2
...
....
.....Hell yes
Alchemist Kit becomes Gun Cleaning Kit etc
Love it
Gun Cleaning Kit? Would that be a Halfling only kit?
Alchemist? No, I'd do it as Paladin. Code of conduct changes to basically "Do not forget the face of your father".
Auras get replaced with
I aim with my eye.
I shoot with my mind.
I kill with my heart.
What if instead of Fighter (or Ranger), the Gunslinger was an Alchemist alternative class? We could call it a Black Powder Mage or Bullet Mage. I would pull out poison use and mutagens, and replace them with appropriate Gunslinger feats and intelligence based grit. Instead of bombs, the class would construct and enhance bullets.
1st: Grit & Deeds instead of Mutagen. Gunslinger instead of Throw Anything.
2nd: Point Blank Shot & Rapid Reload instead of Poison Resistance & Poison Use
3rd: Precise Shot & Deeds instead of Swift Alchemy
6th: Fast Bullets (functioning as Fast Bombs) instead of Swift Poisoning
7th: Deeds
8th: Gun Mastery (functioning as Crossbow Mastery[would lower reloading a musket to a swift action])Unlike bombs, bullets would generally not have area of effects. So, Smoke, Incendiary, Poison & Stink Bullets would be limited to the square of the target that takes a direct hit from the bullet. Further, because an Alchemist could presumably make gunpowder, the cost would be reduced to 5gp per shot. I would consider a Discovery that allowed the Alchemist to load and fire without using gunpowder; instead the explosive power would be generated by the enhanced bullet.
From looking at the classes, I have the feeling Paizo would prefer class mechanics over mandatory feats. The former is more flavorful and creative. So, I could see removing a few of the feats (Point Blank, Rapid, & Precise) for a mechanic. For example, when the Alchemist gains Poison Resistance, he instead can take a move action to gain an "aiming bonus" to his attack roll. Mechanically, this would effectively offset the penalty for throwing into melee or make a very deadly sniper.
I expect perfection only from myself...
I like this idea. I think keeping the bombs wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, this came up in my game, but a player was going to play a gun-toting alchemist and I was going to allow him to use his bomb discovers in a blunderbuss. He decided to make a different character but I think an alchemist blasting out cone effect bombs from a blunderbuss would be a cool effect.
Edit: And the medium BAB would make me feel better about the touch attack.
+1 to this,
Guns AND bombs, mutagen??? i dunno... extracts would be lost except for gun related stuff like charges of powder etc.
but i'd keep things like making potions into posion , poison use etc.
And a discovery to make exploding ammo of course!
this would be endless fun,
If not this, then a slinger/alchemist prestige class!
I like this idea. I think keeping the bombs wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, this came up in my game, but a player was going to play a gun-toting alchemist and I was going to allow him to use his bomb discovers in a blunderbuss. He decided to make a different character but I think an alchemist blasting out cone effect bombs from a blunderbuss would be a cool effect.
Edit: And the medium BAB would make me feel better about the touch attack.
Okay, that makes me think of a alcoholic alchemist. His bombs actually become breath weapons. Totally different thread for that discussion.
Okay, that makes me think of a alcoholic alchemist. His bombs actually become breath weapons. Totally different thread for that discussion.I like this idea. I think keeping the bombs wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, this came up in my game, but a player was going to play a gun-toting alchemist and I was going to allow him to use his bomb discovers in a blunderbuss. He decided to make a different character but I think an alchemist blasting out cone effect bombs from a blunderbuss would be a cool effect.
Edit: And the medium BAB would make me feel better about the touch attack.
I don't see why. The thread is about using alchemist as the base class, and I believe, the only one, so converting how the bombs work is within the subject matter. The alchemist has a pistol or musket, but also can have a blunderbuss (if he buys one). In situations where he targets one enemy, he uses the former, but if he has several enemies in range, he whips out the blunderbuss, dumps in the 'bomb', and blasts away. I think it adds to the argument that gunslinger could be an alternative class for the alchemist instead of fighter.
What if instead of Fighter (or Ranger), the Gunslinger was an Alchemist alternative class?
I REALLY like this idea. It makes much more sense than a fighter archtype.
|
Well, when looking at the gunslinger for Golarion, it has a fairly simple niche to fill: to be the general population of Alkenstar in the Mana Wastes where magic doesn't work. Having this based off of the Alchemist (a magic class) would be, if you'll pardon my pun, a shot in the foot.
If you'd like to make an archetype, prestige class, or another alternate class for some sort of gun mage that's fine, but I really don't see anyone at Paizo going that way initially with this class.
An Alchemist can take the feats needed to use Grit, and buy grit related feats already. He can already do this... and be quite effective at it. his improved Craft: Alchemy skill makes him a natural for the Gunsmith style outlaw.
Well, when looking at the gunslinger for Golarion, it has a fairly simple niche to fill: to be the general population of Alkenstar in the Mana Wastes where magic doesn't work. Having this based off of the Alchemist (a magic class) would be, if you'll pardon my pun, a shot in the foot.
If you'd like to make an archetype, prestige class, or another alternate class for some sort of gun mage that's fine, but I really don't see anyone at Paizo going that way initially with this class.
The alchemist variant gunslinger wouldnt get extracts, just gunpowder, bombs, grit, firearms and discoveries relating to gunpowder, bombs and gun smithing. This alchemist would be all technology based.
Those who adventured outside of the no magic zone could develop discoveries that might be more magical, from things standard alchemists could do (possibly).
It just fits better with someone who could manufacture his own gunpowder, weapons, special gadgetry for the weapons, poisons and explosives, and explain why the gun misfires and screws up and is a general train wreck for anyone who is not an alchemist/gunsligner, therefore they would be rare (and cantankerous) without shooting the PC in the foot (just those who tried to use it without class ability) and without having to make the weapon (or its ammo) uber expensive (unless some enthusiast was trying to buy or collect these things)
Well, when looking at the gunslinger for Golarion, it has a fairly simple niche to fill: to be the general population of Alkenstar in the Mana Wastes where magic doesn't work. Having this based off of the Alchemist (a magic class) would be, if you'll pardon my pun, a shot in the foot.
If you'd like to make an archetype, prestige class, or another alternate class for some sort of gun mage that's fine, but I really don't see anyone at Paizo going that way initially with this class.
Gregg, I can certainly see your line of reasoning. However, while Alkenstar did develop firearms, there is no source that I know of the states Gunslingers arose out of Alkenstar. In fact, there is a stronger argument that the true masters of alchemy came into their own in that state. First, Alkenstar is reputed to have "elsewhere-unheard-of alchemical concoctions". Second, according to the Campaign setting, it is chiefly due to engineers and alchemists that Alkenstar has developed the technology that makes it a fierce power. Just because the magic might be suppressed, does not mean that the base alchemy upon which the abilities are based upon would be.