Does the oread stat bonus/minus make any sense to anyone? Wisdom is the last thing i would ever associate with the plane of earth. The description pretty much screams +str/con and minus - cha or +str/con and minus dex or +str/con and minus int. all those seem logical and in keeping with description of the race and the overall view of the element of earch. the +wis is so random and nonsensical that i am having difficulty figuring it out.
I associate Earth with practicality and strength of will -- Wisdom would be the best trait to represent these concepts.
None of the genies (who are likely progenitors of the various elemental races), including the shaitan, have poor Wisdom scores (14).
Wisdom makes total sense to me. It is a measure of self-discipline, resolve, and willpower. Someone with a high Wisdom has the where-with-all to be steadfast and unflinching. Heck, if the tectonic plates were to have self awareness, they would have to have infinite patience - they only move a matter of inches in a year in most instances when they shift. I tend to associate patience with high Wisdom. To me, those qualities scream of the earth element moreso than any of the other elements.
I can see your argument for Constitution being an earth element, but I would argue that strength is much less of a good choice for earth element association. I think strength is much more of a physical trait best associated with the active motion and push and pull of the ocean and the water element. The earth element is much more about being still and unmoving rather than exerting any force it might have in an active fashion; landslides and earthquakes being a rare exception whereas large bodies of water are ever moving and exerting force - even if not a lot. That said though, I don't mind earth element creatures gaining a strength bonus. After all, I do admit the earth can be very powerful once it does exert active force in any given location. We only have to look to the damage caused by earthquakes, volcanoes, mudslides, and landsldes for the proof in that.
I can also see where you are coming from for Charisma as a penalty to an earth element creature, but I think Intelligence as represented in the game is more about memory and the accumulation and retention of knowledge. This seems to be a decent expression of the earth element to me as any geologist or archaeologist might tell you that the earth bears witness to and retains the remains of what has happened before. This is exemplified by the formation of geological features such river beds, canyons, mountains, and civilizations long since expired that used stone work in their buildings and buried their dead in the earth and made ceramics and other materials from the stuff of the earth.
Also note that all the races with two +2's and a -2 have one physical and one mental stat with a +2. With that in mind, Wisdom makes far more sense than Intelligence or Charisma.
Also note that all the races with two +2's and a -2 have one physical and one mental stat with a +2. With that in mind, Wisdom makes far more sense than Intelligence or Charisma.
This.
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Yes, Wis makes total sense - earth endures, steady and relentless, and it bears witness to everything that happens on it's face.
That those bonuses make Oreads the perfect monk race is just another bonus :)
None of the traits anyone has describe really has anything to do with wisdom. I see alot of reference to endurance. quite honestly neither intellence, charisma or wisdom, fits well with earth.
they should have just did a plus 2str or plus 2 con. Earth is much too slow to be wise, contemplation is not the same as wisdom, and in most cases leads to quite opposite.
None of the traits anyone has describe really has anything to do with wisdom. I see alot of reference to endurance. quite honestly neither intellence, charisma or wisdom, fits well with earth.
they should have just did a plus 2str or plus 2 con. Earth is much too slow to be wise, contemplation is not the same as wisdom, and in most cases leads to quite opposite.
At this point, you're not saying that it makes no sense. You're saying that you don't agree with the interpretations of the other people who've posted in this thread.
Obviously it makes sense to other people.
well i dont have the B2 yet and im not sure what a oread is. im thinking an earth plane creature or an earth type template.
If thats what the devolpers wanted then i would say it's just because thats how the race is, nt because it pertains to earth in general.
why low wisdom?
maybe there hard headed and despite traditional wisdom they adhere to strict tribal code and disdain from viewing the world over all.
Maybe time passes differently in there minds and they have a problem grasping the traditional sense of wisdom and learning from mistakes.
maybe they forget experiences and hence repeat mistakes over and over.
Maybe there relaxed and unfocused and easily susceptible to outside influences and experiences.
a -2 isn't all that bad, all it says is oreads are slightly less wise overall than other races.
Em, they have a wisdom bonus, which is what the OP's disagreeing with.
well a bonus to WIS still just seems thats what the devopers wanted
earh elementals already are the tough and strong incarnate of stone.
In many cultures earth is assotiated with wisdom.
creatures with a deep connection to the earth are often long lived and wise. They see the bigger picture of the scheme of things and how the world really works. They see the whole cycle of life not just one aspect of it, take the druid for instance. Oread could have a devout culture, wisdom handed down through eons through stories written in stone. They have great amounts of time to ponder the universe and to think things out. I would say work with the Wisdom bonus and try to use that to give a culture to the race.
Earth is also associated with sheer stubbornness, which is related to willpower, which happens to be associated with the Wisdom stat.
well i dont have the B2 yet and im not sure what a oread is. im thinking an earth plane creature or an earth type template.
It's basically an OGL replacement for the earth genasi. Not the same stat-wise, but the same general concept: a humanlike being with elemental (most likely genie) ancestry (along with sylph for air, ifrit for fire, and undines for water).
And as a matter of fact, earth genasi had the bonus to Strength and Constitution that the OP was looking for. I suggest that if she has the appropriate sourcebooks, she uses them for her own campaigns if she dislikes the oread--but note they approach being a "powerful race" (like the drow noble; something that would have had a level adjustment score in 3.x), not a race suitable for being comparable to the core races in terms of level/challenge ratings.
And as a matter of fact, earth genasi had the bonus to Strength and Constitution that the OP was looking for. I suggest that if she has the appropriate sourcebooks, she uses them for her own campaigns if she dislikes the oread--but note they approach being a "powerful race" (like the drow noble; something that would have had a level adjustment score in 3.x), not a race suitable for being comparable to the core races in terms of level/challenge ratings.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe all Genasi from 3.5 FR had a +1 LA. Of course so did Aasimars and Tieflings, and they don't now. However the bonus to two physical stats of the 3.5 Earth Genasi puts it head and shoulders above other races for martial classes, so I'd heavily consider calling it a +1 CR race for Pathfinder purposes.
And as a matter of fact, earth genasi had the bonus to Strength and Constitution that the OP was looking for. I suggest that if she has the appropriate sourcebooks, she uses them for her own campaigns if she dislikes the oread--but note they approach being a "powerful race" (like the drow noble; something that would have had a level adjustment score in 3.x), not a race suitable for being comparable to the core races in terms of level/challenge ratings.If I'm not mistaken, I believe all Genasi from 3.5 FR had a +1 LA. Of course so did Aasimars and Tieflings, and they don't now. However the bonus to two physical stats of the 3.5 Earth Genasi puts it head and shoulders above other races for martial classes, so I'd heavily consider calling it a +1 CR race for Pathfinder purposes.
Yup. The thing is, Pathfinder core races are more powerful now, and I would say Tieflings and Aasimars, whether 3.x or Pathfinder versions, are on par with them. Whereas I would still consider making the original genasi (not the elemental humanoids in the Bestiary 2) +1 CR, as you say.
None of the traits anyone has describe really has anything to do with wisdom. I see alot of reference to endurance. quite honestly neither intellence, charisma or wisdom, fits well with earth.
Wisdom is like mental endurance. (It's other things, too, I know, but it's also mental endurance.)
None of the traits anyone has describe really has anything to do with wisdom. I see alot of reference to endurance. quite honestly neither intellence, charisma or wisdom, fits well with earth.
they should have just did a plus 2str or plus 2 con. Earth is much too slow to be wise, contemplation is not the same as wisdom, and in most cases leads to quite opposite.
In the Tarot, The Hierophant and The Hermit are associated with Taurus and Virgo respectively — both Earth signs. In each case, they are veritable icons of wise old men. Constitution and Wisdom are the two qualities I would absolutely associate with elemental earth and it seems that many of the ancients thought so as well.
From that standpoint, my choices would have most likely been +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Dex.
Mother Earth is Wise :) Gaia
I always think of earth endurance, to be more about the ability to be endure, so it seems more constitution related.
Gaia is usally not assiocated with wisdom. The sky father is almost all religeon and cultures is the wise one.
Earth almost always is strengh and the abilty to endure physical hardships.
i beleive the Undines should have a strength bonus, but they have a penalty instead. the waves are an overpowering force, these guys should have gotten a swim speed and the amphibious trait.
i beleive that the fetchlings should have had +2 int +2 cha -2 con. they are the living incarnations of deception. i see shadow as the element of deception. illusions, enchantments, lies, and so on. the rest is fine.
i also beleive the Ifrit should have had a strength bonus instead of a dexterity bonus, mainly because of the theory of fire being the element of destruction. an incarnation of destruction should be able to power through things. these guys should have gotten a better land speed
and that the oread should have had a constitution bonus instead of a strength bonus. the earth is stubborn and unyeilding. these guys should have gotten something similar to tremorsense
the Sylph racial modifiers are fine as is. but should have gotten something similar to a fly speed.
since all 5 of these races are mostly human on a genetic level, they should look more human and have had less exotic hair/eye/skin colors.