Creation is currently underway for Caelum Zhane, Male Human Rogue.
Unfortunately, I am not aware of the full background of the world layout, so I will include a bit of my world in his background if no one minds.
I will refine his backstory more later, but I thought I'd post that up for now to show you what I have and have you critique it where you may.
Here goes:
Oh wait, drop the lowest.
So thats:
13
12
11
9
15
16
Not bad at all. For a second there I thought I had rolled my first ever 19!
I'm thinking some sort of swordsman in the spirit of musashi, or perhaps a sort of viking shaman of some sort.
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 5, 5) = 21 - 16
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 2, 2) = 11 - 10
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 1, 1) = 9 - 8
4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 3, 5) = 14 - 11
4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 4, 6) = 16 - 13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 4, 4) = 12 - 11
16 +3
13 +1
11 +0
11 +0
10 0
8 -1
Let me think about a character background, and I'll post it in a future message. Likely to be full of hooks, or as my current ref has it "ways to get into trouble, and maybe out again..."
Stats:
So my attributes are 11, 13, 14, 14, 10, 11
Awesome!
So, Dazylar is talking about a fighter; Beckett only plays clerics; Fergie's looking at a swashbuckler or skald or something; Caelum says rogue (although his profile shows ranger).
Any objections to me playing a sorcerer?
May go Cleric.
Based on your comments in the PF cleric threads, Beckett, you'd probably love a cleric/fighter with the Templar fighter talent, using these rules. Check it out and see what you think.
Here's my character, in broad strokes.
Wilhem here. I decided to go with a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian. Quick question, I don't see Darkvision under this race. Do they really not get this or is it accidentally left out?
Here is what I have so far...
Still figuring some stuff out and reading up on all the rules.
-Fergie
Current template is a copy from another char. Work on Morrak is in progress.
Wilhem here. I decided to go with a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian. Quick question, I don't see Darkvision under this race. Do they really not get this or is it accidentally left out?
Look under "Favored Terrain: Underground." As a mountain dwarf, you automatically get Underground as a favored terrain with a +2 bonus. Other races with a +2 favored terrain: underground bonus would have darkvision 20 ft., but being a mountain dwarf increases that range to 60 ft. right off the bat.
As a barbarian, you'll gain an additional favored terrain (with a +2 bonus) based on your totem. If that other terrain is ALSO underground, all the bonuses will stack, and you'll end up with a net 80 ft. range to your darkvision.
Wilhem here. I decided to go with a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian.
If we're using Kirthfinder rules vs. standard Pathfinder, your rage bonuses are all incorrect as well. I'll wait for TOZ to come back with a ruling -- if this has been changed to straight Pathfinder, ignore all my rules advice (and I'll have to change my character up as well).
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Wilhem here. I decided to go with a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian.If we're using Kirthfinder rules vs. standard Pathfinder, your rage bonuses are all incorrect as well. I'll wait for TOZ to come back with a ruling -- if this has been changed to straight Pathfinder, ignore all my rules advice (and I'll have to change my character up as well).
Thanks for the clarification Kirth. As for my template, everything is from another straight pf character. I haven't had the time to properly stat up the Morrak with the house rules yet.
I haven't had the time to properly stat up the Morrak with the house rules yet.
I'll be happy to give you a hand, as I've got most of the errata in my head, instead of you having to go through the other thread looking for them. The main one is that the rage bonus to attributes (+2 at 1st level, +3 at 3rd, +4 at 5th, +5 at 7th, +6 at 9th, etc.) should now apply to ALL attributes except Intelligence. Intelligence is always simply treated as "2" while raging.
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I haven't had the time to properly stat up the Morrak with the house rules yet.I'll be happy to give you a hand, as I've got most of the errata in my head, instead of you having to go through the other thread looking for them. The main one is that the rage bonus to attributes (+2 at 1st level, +3 at 3rd, +4 at 5th, +5 at 7th, +6 at 9th, etc.) should now apply to ALL attributes except Intelligence. Intelligence is always simply treated as "2" while raging.
Wow that's a huge change. I can understand the attribute increase in the physical scores, but can you shed light on the rational behind increasing WIS and CHA as well?
I am currently stating Morrak using the documents on the first post of that thread TOZ pointed us to. Where can I find the updates? I am particularly interested in the barb's rage attribute increase as he levels. The CON increase directly affects how large of a delay dmg pool you have, which determines how powerful your Furious Counterstrike will be.
Where can I find the updates?
Minor errata appear downthread from where TOZ linked the documents. Other catches, etc. are listed under the "about" link for this avatar.
Wow that's a huge change. I can understand the attribute increase in the physical scores, but can you shed light on the rationale behind increasing WIS and CHA as well?
Sure!
In general, rather than list a legion of specific bonuses ("You receive a +1 bonus to Will saves, and to Bluff checks to demoralize, and to ranged attacks, and to the save DC of Charimsa-based abilities, and to Perception checks..."), it's a lot simpler to expand the stat bonuses across the board. Also, with the bonus at 1st level being cut in half, it's nice to get some additional benefit to make up for it.
Overall? Yes, barbarians are now outrageously awesome compared to their PF brethren -- especially after the stat boosts catch up. But then again, fighters and rangers and monks are now equally awesome. We shamelessly cater to gamers who like melee characters.
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Sure!
Wis -- initially, this was to avoid tracking special Will save modifiers separately from physical attribute changes. Overall, it's reasonable to assume that your perceptiveness and animal guile would improve in such a heightened state. And it now improves ranged attacks, allowing raging barbarians to better throw spears through their enemies! Also, it's nice to get a better insight bonus to AC while raging, using Canny Defense.
Cha -- this stat now governs Will saves
Oh man, I am stating my barb wrong. I looked under The Egg of Coot's About section and didn't see any changes on attributes. I also did not find them under the house rules document.
Can someone give me a quick run down of what each attribute does just in case there are more major changes? Alternatively, having a link to the house rules would be better so that every player in on the same page. Thanks!
I looked under The Egg of Coot's About section and didn't see any changes on attributes. I also did not find them under the house rules document.
Let me apologize for the confusion -- I was in such a rush to get the documents out to the players by my self-imposed January 1st deadline that a number of errata, inclusions, and corrections don't appear in the documents that TOZ posted. Those particular changes were discussed at some length downthread from where the docs were posted, and recently added to the EGG of Coot profile as well.
One possibility that I'll leave up to TOZ is to run the playtest using the linked documents exactly as they appear, with no errata included. That will lead to some minor problems, but at least there would be no need to keep track of rules in more than one place. TOZ?
Cha -- this stat now governs Will saves
Discussion of reasoning, for those interested
Moving ranged attacks to Wis: (1) prevents Wisdom from taking Charisma's place as the "auto-dump stat," and (2) lessens the presence of Dexterity as the "super-stat" that counts more than all of the others (AC, initiative, Reflex saves, etc., etc.). For people who balk at the "realism" of Wis vs. Dex in fire combat, there's a discussion of quotes from Wyatt Earp, among others.
Guess that's the beauty of playtesting.
Yes! Ultimately I want a game that plays (for people like houstonderek, TOZ, and myself) better than the alternatives. To that end, I need as much playtesting as I can get!
In light of these discoveries, I might switch to Fighter. Will take a closer look at all the options tonight.
Our experience so far has been that fighters are a lot more versatile and easier to use to accomplish various fancy fighting style exploits. Barbarians are unmatched so far when it comes to mopping the floor (the party tactics in Hook Mountain Massacre consisted largely of "Jack the Barbarian charges the ogres, and the rest of us take a nap!")
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So I looked through the entire house rules thread and saw only two barbarian links. One is the in the first post, the other is the same document on an older version of Word. I presume that the extensive updates on the class has been done on the master document downloadable in the first post or covered under Egg's About section.
Here are my thoughts:
- The Barb now needs 4 decent stats: STR, CON, CHA, and WIS
- WIS is only necessary cause of canny defense; I don't really care about range atks
- I can give up on WIS for a shield, but that means Morrak can't max out his dmg Power Attacking with a two-handed weapon; He can get vambraces to keep his hands open, but costs a feat
- Because I don't want a low DEX or INT, I ended up spreading my #s out more than I would prefer; perhaps that is the creators' goal?
- I think the saving grace is that all attributes (minus INT) increase when Morrak rages -> that means Extra Rage and Instant Rage is now really important since you want to rage all the time for the all the bonuses
- With an INT of 2, will Morrak recognize friend from foe?
- How come the Barb gets Bluff instead of Intimidate?
I think I will stay with a Mountain Dwarf Barb. Right now I am leaning heavily towards the Boar Totem, but might go with Bull or Elephant.
Here are my thoughts:
1. The Barb now needs 4 decent stats: STR, CON, CHA, and WIS
2. With an INT of 2, will Morrak recognize friend from foe?
3. How come the Barb gets Bluff instead of Intimidate?
1. The goal is for all classes to need almost all stats -- evidently in the case of the barbarian, it's working.
2. A guard dog certainly can do so, without hesitation -- so could Morrak.3. Intimidate is now a specific function of Bluff.
I think I am done except for BG and looks. TOZ and Kirth, please take a look.
Barbarian Doc Questions:
1. Fast Movements is not listed on the table, but shows up in the documents. Is it something that should be taken out?
2. Furious Counterstrike says you get an additional +1 atk +2 dmg when there is 10 points of dmg in your delayed dmg pool (DDP). However, since ur DDP is derived entirely from your raging CON bonus, wouldn't that mean to get 10 DDP, ur CON bonus needs to be +20? Or did I misread something?
Opinions in General:
- I for one think while DEX controls a lot, but not all that is critical.
- I played through Crimson Throne as a fighter with just 13 Dex. High massive dmg output always wins the day.
- Init was never that big of an issue and out of the three saves, reflex simply isn't as important as Will or Fortitude.
- I would dump WIS if I am building a shield barb. Power attack is a good lure to go the two-handed fighting style, but not a guarantee that WIS won't be dumped. Range atk did not attract me to WIS either; my party can take care of things I can't reach and later on there is FLY.
- I would get rid of the shield proficiency and keep canny defense. Give the players less options so WIS becomes an important source of AC.
1. Fast Movement is not listed on the table, but shows up in the documents. Is it something that should be taken out?
2. Furious Counterstrike says you get an additional +1 atk +2 dmg when there is 10 points of dmg in your delayed dmg pool (DDP). However, since ur DDP is derived entirely from your raging CON bonus, wouldn't that mean to get 10 DDP, ur CON bonus needs to be +20? Or did I misread something?
1. Fast movement is a perk of certain favored terrains, so if your totem grants a favored terrain with fast movement, you get it; otherwise not.
2. At 5th level, you get a +4 bonus to Con while raging, which gives you +2 x 5th level = 10 hp in your delayed damage pool.
"If you laugh at the latter, I'm looking at nearly 100% confirmation of it in the PBP threads."
~Slinks off to go swap out his low charisma score...
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Well, this thread exploded when I wasn't looking. '^_^ I will get back to you guys after work today. As of right now, we are still using the houserules documents. If keeping up with the errata is too difficult given the nature of the houseules thread, we can stick to the hosted documents. I would like to see how the Wis/Cha changes play out however.
And to say this morning I was certain where my 8 would be going! I even had it explained in character. In which case, that's still where I'm putting it!
Kirth, I think you've done a good thing here.
Character to be posted this weekend - hope that's ok.
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And to say this morning I was certain where my 8 would be going! I even had it explained in character. In which case, that's still where I'm putting it!
Kirth, I think you've done a good thing here.
Character to be posted this weekend - hope that's ok.
Don't do it Dazylar, will save = key to victory!
I think I am done except for BG and looks.
Your melee damage values look a bit low (remember, 2-handed weapons get 1.5 Str modifier to damage and extra damage from Power Attack). I calculate:
Skills:
Slinks off to go swap out his low charisma score...
Until you do that, the Will save will be lower! However, your javelin attacks are higher (+1 BAB, +2 Wis = +3), and your Martial proficiency with the javelin gives you 20/x3 crits with it.
For Feats:
Updated the great axe damage and fixed the skills. Decided to stay with survival instead of picking prof (miner). Also added bg, personality, and looks. When we starting this thing?
OK, I think I got all the key stats down. Had a good dent into equipment, but message board dumped it when I hit save. ugh.
I've got a short history that I will add soon.
Should we start with standard average gold, or roll?
Should I track encumbrance carefully?
Do I need to track rations, tent and sleeping bag, minor items (parchment, ink, needles, fishhooks, etc.)
Just got to say that while I'm still wrapping my head around around all the details, some of these rules are fantastic! The new weapon proficiency rules are genius! I think it is very cool that I can make what I would normally build as a fighter/monk without taking levels of monk. (Note: I really want to try your monk class, but I fell fighter gives me all the things I needed.)
2H Melee Bastard Sword +6 (1d10/18-20)+6 or (2d8/19-20)+6 vs. Lg+
The "or" means you need to pick ONE; you don't get both benefits unless you spend 2 feats. In other words, you choose EITHER:
(a) 1d10/18-20;OR
(b) 1d10/19-20 vs. Medium and smaller and 2d8/19-20 vs. Large and larger.
Dazing strike from TOB - it's mentioned in the exotic WP for *ahem* Great Hammer, but in the feats section it appears to be replaced by Staggering Strike. Is that true? And do I get that if I choose Exotic with my Great Hammer?
Cheers!
Dazing strike appears to be replaced by Staggering Strike. Is that true? And do I get that if I choose Exotic with my Great Hammer?
Staggering Strike is correct, and yes, you get that feat (but only when using a great hammer) if you have Exotic proficiency with the great hammer.
Thanks Kirth
Ok, Draygen is now created, if not very well fleshed out. I shall update again and write down more precise statistics asap - but I'm off to bed now! Speak to you later!
Final info being added...
Do we have a start date on this pbp?