Ok guys,
I have been running my campaign for 6 months now, and the players are doing great!!! Great game and having a lot of fun!!! The only issue I see is that they are blowing through some of my encounters pretty easily. I do my best to reward their team work and NEVER punish them for their excellent tactics (like any good DM); but like any group, they like a good challenge and it seems as though I am having a difficult time challenging them. The average party level is 6. I have a 6Lvl Pali, a 6LvlCleric, two 6Lvlwizards, a 5Lvlsorc, and a 5LvlMonk. I would like to put together an encounter that really challenges them and forces them to utilize ALL their resources. I wouldn’t mind seeing a little sweat on their brow :)
The current situation (dungeon) they are in, allows me to utilize:
Spiders (vermin)
An Undead Cleric and his undead minions
Mud Slaug
And an Undead T-Rex
My issue isn’t so much the creatures available; it is more or less HOW TO USE THE CREATURES I HAVE TO THEIR FULL POTENTIAL. I seem to have my bad guy spell casters die quickly and the wizard in the group is able to pre occupy MOST my monsters with his summoned creatures. ANY TACTICS OR TRICKS YOU GUYS MAY HAVE WOULD BE GREATELY APPRECIATED!
You have more specific information on their tactics, builds, and equipment, and how they handled the last encounter that was supposed to be difficult.
Are we allowed to decide what undead minions the cleric has, and what race is the cleric?
Additionally, are you typically using one equal CR opponent versus the party or multiple lower CR opponents that function as a group?
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A few thoughts:
1. Have mooks around the BBEG so it doesn't get one shot. Checked.
2. Multiple encounters/day. A single encounter that forces them to use ALL their resources would be pretty epic.
3. I noticed that there are a lot of undead, which are enemies that the Pali and the Cleric will shine against. The rest of the party are casters and a monk, who won't have a problem bypassing the DR. Perhaps change things up a bit?
OK, here is what I got off the top of my head...
Warning, some of this will require some work on your part.
The Spiders - add the half dragon template - I'm thinking black dragon, and replace the breath weapon with an acid-for-blood ability that damages anyone who hits them with a melee attack. Swap out the flying for an ability that lets them squeeze without penalty. Sounds familiar? Strap into your auto-loader, and save Newt!
An Undead cleric and his minions?
Vampire druid cleric, and his minions are vampire dragons! Small or medium, and if you want to be a cruel GM, make them of a fire type like brass. I would recommend making a sort of "half-vampire" template so that you can have a lot of of the minions without too much level draining going on.
Not sure what a mud slaug is, so I'm not much help there.
Undead T-Rex? Hmmmm. Skeletons and Zombies are pretty weak. One command or halt undead, and that thing is down without a save...
I guess I would put something inside the T-rex acting as a controller (minor devil with 3 levels of cleric?), but I'm seeing a lot of problems with this creature.
Protection from good prevents contact by summon creatures, and circle of protection does the same at 10ft. A Horn of Goodness/Evil is a great magic item for a villain to have at this level.
With that many characters, I would have at least 3 enemies in each encounter, if not more. Also, with 4 full casters in the party, you should consider drow, rakshasa, or some other type of creature with SR to be the mook enemies. Sounds like you have a VERY powerful party to challenge, so don't hesitate to throw CR 9 encounters at the group, but keep the number of enemies high, rather then 1 Badass monster.
GREAT stuff!!!
As far as their tactics, the wizard loves to summon cheetas and spiders, alligators and squids. LOL; the cleric loves to beef his ac up and summon as well (he summons ancestrial gaurdians; they are spirts); the pali just charges in and hits stuff; the monk is basically useless right now (he took three levels of cleric and 2 of monk) and he doesnt play well; the other wizard loves to stand back and pick stuff off with missle type spells and such; and the sorceror also loves to stand back with missle attacks. They dont have too many magical items yet (I have been pretty stingy with Magic so far). Their AC are as follows:
Wizard: 21
Wizard: 14
Sor: 20
Cleric: 23 sometime 27 with spells
Monk: 22
Pali: 24; 29 when smiting I think
OK, here is what I got off the top of my head...
Warning, some of this will require some work on your part.
The Spiders - add the half dragon template - I'm thinking black dragon, and replace the breath weapon with an acid-for-blood ability that damages anyone who hits them with a melee attack. Swap out the flying for an ability that lets them squeeze without penalty. Sounds familiar? Strap into your auto-loader, and save Newt!An Undead cleric and his minions?
Vampire druid cleric, and his minions are vampire dragons! Small or medium, and if you want to be a cruel GM, make them of a fire type like brass. I would recommend making a sort of "half-vampire" template so that you can have a lot of of the minions without too much level draining going on.Not sure what a mud slaug is, so I'm not much help there.
Undead T-Rex? Hmmmm. Skeletons and Zombies are pretty weak. One command or halt undead, and that thing is down without a save...
I guess I would put something inside the T-rex acting as a controller (minor devil with 3 levels of cleric?), but I'm seeing a lot of problems with this creature.Protection from good prevents contact by summon creatures, and circle of protection does the same at 10ft. A Horn of Goodness/Evil is a great magic item for a villain to have at this level.
With that many characters, I would have at least 3 enemies in each encounter, if not more. Also, with 4 full casters in the party, you should consider drow, rakshasa, or some other type of creature with SR to be the mook enemies. Sounds like you have a VERY powerful party to challenge, so don't hesitate to throw CR 9 encounters at the group, but keep the number of enemies high, rather then 1 Badass monster.
You've got a larger than average party and a caster heavy party which tends to mean that they can often hit far harder than their APL would indicate a limited number of encounters per day.
+2 Party Members probably increases their effective APL by +1 or possibly +2. That means really tough encounters can theoretically be as high as CR 10.
Avoid 1 big monster syndrome. The creatures that can theoretically challenge them often have defenses that are high enough that they are frustrating to fight (high AC, high HPs, DR, Good Saves) and can do enough damage in a full attack that they can eat a PC a round.
Going with a budget of 6400 XP (CR 9 encounter) for a end boss fight you might go with something like this
Cleric level 6 (CR 5 equivalent) 1600 XP
Wraith (CR 5) 1600 XP
Carrion Golem (CR 4) 1200 XP
10 Zombies (CR 1/2) 200 x 10 = 2000 XP
The Zombies are basically meatshields for the BBEG. He can use channels to keep them up and running. They are also good targets for the Cleric to use channels against and for any AoE spells.
The Carrion Golem is a nice brute for the Paladin and Monk to team up against. It has decent HPs and DR and is relatively magic immune.
The Wraith is incorporeal so he presents a whole host of challenges to the party. Channels, Force Spells, etc will all help.
The Cleric is relatively tough, provides decent loot, and can really help healing most of the monsters.
This is a complex encounter that will take some time to resolve and is composed of relatively non-challenging foes but collectively present a pretty heavy challenge.
To expand on what vuron said, in the gamemastering section, there is an example of a CR 10 encounter:
"For example, let's say you want your group of six 8th-level PCs to face a challenging encounter against a group of gargoyles (each CR 4) and their stone giant boss (CR 8). The PCs have an APL of 9, and table 12–1 tells you that a challenging encounter for your APL 9 group is a CR 10 encounter—worth 9,600 XP according to Table: Experience Point Awards. At CR 8, the stone giant is worth 4,800 XP, leaving you with another 4,800 points in your XP budget for the gargoyles. Gargoyles are CR 4 each, and thus worth 1,200 XP apiece, meaning that the encounter can support four gargoyles in its XP budget. You could further refine the encounter by including only three gargoyles, leaving you with 1,200 XP to spend on a trio of Small earth elemental servants (at CR 1, each is worth 400 XP) to further aid the stone giant."
I would say that would be a fun encounter for your group.
Note: The paladin, cleric, 2 wizards and sorcerer are probably capable of handling CR 8-9 encounters with very little chance of a player dying. I would keep the magic items on the stingy side for now, as this group is already powerful. As long as everyone has a +1 weapon and a few scrolls and wands, things will be fine. In a few more levels, everyone should have rings or protection, cloaks of resistance, and ability +2 or +4 items, but for now don't sweat it.
EDIT:
"the monk is basically useless right now (he took three levels of cleric and 2 of monk) and he doesnt play well;"
What a shame! Despite what some folks will tell you, that could be a really cool character... If you tell me what point buy you are using, I might be able to make a version of that character that will let that player be more functional...
PS This thread will probably be moved to the Advice forum.
Going with the necrotic theme, instead of spiders throw in a handful of CR 2 Giant Whiptail Centipedes that come in behind the group through holes up in the walls, or something similar, when the undead cleric whistles. They should help keep their attention divided, because Giant whiptails have a 20' trip attack, poison, and hit pretty hard, if I remember correctly.
They shouldn't be deadly at 6th level, but will keep the party members that hang out in the rear on their toes :).
4 level 6's and 2 level 5's
What I do with a larger party is break them down in when making encounter
The Level 6 party should max out at CR 10, but I normally use a +3 so I will go with a CR 9
The 2 5's should max out at 7, but I will use a six. That means you have a CR9 and CR 6
More breaking down
CR9=One CR8 cleric(cleric level 9) and one CR 6(3 shadows)
CR 6=wizard level 7
finals
level 9 cleric(make sure he is buffed), level 7 wizard( have him do buffs also. Once combat starts he debuffs, and does battlefield control spells. Give him some evocation spells also. I would also have the cleric summoning thing.
The shadows are going to be hiding so I would have the room dimly lit so they can make surprise attacks on the first 2 or 3 people that walk through the door. No reason to let the entire party into the room before combat begins.
