For the craft rod feat, must the caster have access to the appropriate metamagic feat to create a metamagic rod?
I'm currently interpreting the rules to say that a wizard can create a rod for a metamagic feat to which he does not have access, but the DC is increased by 5 because he is missing one of the prerequisites. Am I interpreting that correctly?
Yes. The only things you can't emulate are 1) the item creation feat and 2) the spell cast by a triggered item.
That's what I thought. Thanks for backing me up.
Magic Item Creation
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
Blueluck, could you post the rule. As I read them the craft rules are
1- You Must have any Craft item feats2- You Must have the spell if it is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item
3- You Must have appropriate materials or gp
All other "prerequisites" "cost" a +5 to the spellcraft roll if they are missing. That's how I interpret it. Is there another section/Errata/FAQ that expands on this?
Magic Item Creation
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.Blueluck, could you post the rule. As I read them the craft rules are
1- You Must have any Craft item feats
2- You Must have the spell if it is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item
3- You Must have appropriate materials or gpAll other "prerequisites" "cost" a +5 to the spellcraft roll if they are missing. That's how I interpret it. Is there another section/Errata/FAQ that expands on this?
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
Huh, you just requoted what I posted?
Blueluck, could you post the rule.
If I thought Maybryn hadn't read it, I would have. Unfortunately, "the rule" isn't terribly clear in the text.
Rule 2, can be read and argued as You must have the spell, but that spell can be provided by another spell caster or item.
On the topic of needing to know the spell and metamagic:
Can a wizard, with no metamagic feats, scribe scrolls with them.
I.e. the wizard has fireball in his spellbook, but not the maximize feat. Can he scribe a scroll of Maximized fireball at +5 DC on his check, or dose "needing to know the spell" include the metamagic potion.
Personally I'd say "No!" but was wondering if there was an official ruling on this, or what the RAW crowd thought.
Unfortunately, "the rule" isn't terribly clear in the text.
Which rule are you talking about?
Magic Item Creation
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.
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This rule clearly states that you can craft an item even if you do not have all the prerequisites.
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The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory.
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Except that the Craft item feat IS an absolute prerequisite.
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In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
As are the spell requirements if you are crafting certain items (scroll, wand and staff).
Rule 2, can be read and argued as You must have the spell, but that spell can be provided by another spell caster or item.
I always thought that this rule meant the creator must have the spell, but I could see how you could interpret it with this part referencing "although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed".
Thus I assume the rules are;
1- The crafter Must have any Craft item feats
2- The crafter Must have access to the spell if it is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item
3- You Must have appropriate materials
So you should be able to craft a metamagic rod without the appropriate feat, though at +5 spellcraft (making the dc 5+17+5=27).
Can a wizard, with no metamagic feats, scribe scrolls with them.
Wow, that's a good question. If I maintain you can craft a rod without the metamagic feat, why can't you do the same to a scroll? This opens Scribe Scroll up to much abuse.
- Can a wizard, with no metamagic feats, scribe scrolls with them?
- Can a wizard, with no metamagic feats, craft a metamagic rod?
Thus I assume the rules are;
1- The crafter Must have any Craft item feats
2- The crafter Must have access to the spell if it is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item
3- You Must have appropriate materialsSo you should be able to craft a metamagic rod without the appropriate feat, though at +5 spellcraft (making the dc 5+17+5=27).
To the best of my knowledge, this is how i read the rules. ((although other people read the rules differently, so see your home DM, until a FAQ or Error is posted)).
Is there an official position (errata, FAQ, etc...) on these questions?
- Can a wizard, with no metamagic feats, scribe scrolls with them?
- Can a wizard, with no metamagic feats, craft a metamagic rod?
Why = 2- The crafter Must have access to the spell if it is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item. == So you need the meta-magic feat spell memorized as a spell, although that spell can come from another scroll that is already got the meta-feat, magic item with correct spell level and feat, or another caster like a wizard or cleric with feat and spell; to cast the meta-feat spell for you.
NOTE = If you get help from an NPC, They will charge you ( Spell level x caster level x 10 gp) + Material component cost. They will only do this in a city environment, with at NO Risk to themselves is present, and were they do not have to do any traveling outside the city.
WHY = Because i do not see any RAW that disallowed it at this time. This might be because the rules were done this way intentionally, OR, because no one thought about it at the time the rules were redone for pathfinder. But until i see an errata or FAQ, that say otherwise; by the way i read the rules. Yes, you can make such a rod.
To put a slightly different spin on an old thread - Can a Wizard who knows Scorching Ray and has a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Empower scribe a scroll of Empowered Fireball? If so I'd assume that the it should count as a 5th level spell of the appropriate caster level in terms of crafting cost.
I'd think that this should work if item creation merely requires casting the required spell. If it requires having the spell in a spell slot and expending it in some way other than casting I guess that might be a problem (or not)
