1)A Glyph of Warding is placed on a doorway: can a wizard detect the aura of this spell via Detect Magic?
2) On a door there is a magical trap (a magical device one) with a Spiritual Waepon triggered when somenone tries to break the door: can a wizard detect the aura also of this spell (spiritual weapon) via Detect Magic?
I think so, I'd find illogical that a Rogue could detect magical traps with his Class Feature, while a wizarf couldn't do the same even more easily with a specific spell: what do you think, or am I missing something about the rules as they are written?
Many Thanks!
1 & 2 are both yes.
Also go back and reread the class feature in question -- the name is misleading as it doesn't allow you to find traps!
Instead it allows the rogue to disarm magical traps with the disable device skill and have a bonus on two skills.
Anyone can find magical (or non-magical) traps -- they can even disarm them with odd means (such as magic, or special devices/whatever) only someone with trapfinding however can disable a magical trap with disable device.
Abraham spalding wrote: 1 & 2 are both yes.
Also go back and reread the class feature in question -- the name is misleading as it doesn't allow you to find traps!
Instead it allows the rogue to disarm magical traps with the disable device skill and have a bonus on two skills.
Anyone can find magical (or non-magical) traps -- they can even disarm them with odd means (such as magic, or special devices/whatever) only someone with trapfinding however can disable a magical trap with disable device.
Many Thanks again!
vale73 wrote: Abraham spalding wrote: 1 & 2 are both yes.
Also go back and reread the class feature in question -- the name is misleading as it doesn't allow you to find traps!
Instead it allows the rogue to disarm magical traps with the disable device skill and have a bonus on two skills.
Anyone can find magical (or non-magical) traps -- they can even disarm them with odd means (such as magic, or special devices/whatever) only someone with trapfinding however can disable a magical trap with disable device.
Many Thanks again! Except it isn't as clear as that. Okay, I understand that only the rogue can use Perception to find glyphs (Core p. 291), but there is no clarity with regards to whether a PC could use detect magic to find the glyph in the first place. In fact, as written, it could mean that only rogues can detect glyphs period, excluding the poor spell-caster from employing his detect magic. I assume this isn't the case, since what I think they mean is that only a rogue can use perception to find a glyph.
Elsewhere in the same description, the rules state that read magic allows you to identify a glyph, but I would assume you'd have to detect it first.
This is nearly identical text to the 3.5 version. I'm always slightly disappointed when something unclear in 3.5 remains unclear now.
Any clarity would be appreciated - we had a lot of glyphs in tonight's game, and I wanted to give the wizard the benefit of the doubt without excluding the rogue's high perception...
Any help from out there amongst the wizened masses would be appreciated.
Can a 0 level spellcaster, employing unlimited detect magic, really detect the aura a glyph of warding, while no one else but the rogue even has a chance of detecting it with perception?
This diminishes the power of the glyphs, and any other magical traps, significantly, and proportionally reduces the rogue's roll in trap detection ('Get the wizard out front to find magic traps with his cantrips!').
I'm considering houseruling it - adding a spellcraft check, along with detect magic. Same DC as the rogue has for detecting it in the first place.
Thoughts/advice/wise counsel welcomed.
Nobody has a more accurate or definitive answer to that question...
The rules state: PRD wrote: Note: Magic traps such as glyph of warding are hard to detect and disable. Using a 0 level at will spell is far from "difficult" in my mind...
Eretas wrote: Nobody has a more accurate or definitive answer to that question...
The rules state: PRD wrote: Note: Magic traps such as glyph of warding are hard to detect and disable. Using a 0 level at will spell is far from "difficult" in my mind...
And yet, per the PRD, a read magic with a low DC will tell you all about it without setting it off:
Quote: Read magic allows you to identify a glyph of warding with a DC 13 Knowledge (arcana) check. Identifying the glyph does not discharge it and allows you to know the basic nature of the glyph (version, type of damage caused, what spell is stored).
But the read magic require that you actually detect the glyph... And this is suppose to be "hard"?
Yes. Spammable detect magic has made magic traps neigh unusable.
Then what is an Magical Aura... when the caster cast Glyph of warding, there is lingering aura... Is this what the "detect magic" detect or the glyph itself?
PRD wrote: Lingering Aura: A magical aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a magic item). If detect magic is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power:
I usually rule that magical traps are magical devices for purpose of the detect magic spell. which is no different than detect snares and pits. Any magical trap has stored energies that can be detected by those looking. A rogue has been taught to see the physical signs that are necessary to hold those magics. To use a Forgotten Realms term, "the rogue/ranger reads the world while a mage reads the Weave." I have always assumed most magical traps were hidden in some way to mask them. Either in other text, in some form of art, with the smallest inscriptions possible, or by some other means. They are also naturally smaller in size for their CR compared to mechanical traps.
Even if you can find a trap with the spell this does not mean that the magic user has the means to disable the trap without greater means. A glyph carved into a stone wall can be destroyed with a stone shape spell. As will an area or targeted dispel magic. Also warp wood can provide enough damage to simple traps to foul them. These are done at the expense of a spell slot. While a rogue need only spend time with a check.
Often if a rogue feels he cannot disable the trap he will call on the magic user to bypass it or the tank if it is a physical trap. Throwing a high HP/AC PC in front of attack trap or a high save PC into a trap to activate it without endangering the rest of the party. Then using the reset time to the party's advantage is a valid tactic.
On a different note, remember that detection magics must be used for a full round to produce results. scanning the room/hallway one section at a time will be time consuming. Having to take one 5 ft square at a time is arguable with the 60 ft cone, you could say that by the time they are within 10 ft you would have had time for 3 rnds if they are moving at a reasonable rate. And yes they can cast the spell as often as they wish but they have to maintain concentration which means that PC won't be doing anything else. If they get to abusing it you could always institute a mental fatigue condition that can scale into exhaustion. Giving int and wis penalties instead of the normal str and dex penalties.
If the caster wants to have detect magic up ALL THE TIME, scanning with it ALL THE TIME, spending three rounds every time he scans an area with a magical presence to pinpoint the square the magic emanation is coming from, then let him spend his time.
However, while the spell can penetrate barriers, 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.
Also, after the first combat, taking that much time to scan the walls and floors ahead of you is going to give enemies a lot of time to prepare defenses.
And he detects a magical aura, pinpoints the location and determines the auras. Does he try to dispel the trap? Nah, he just points the rogue at it.
Since the rogue would likely have found it anyhow, or another high-perception character, it doesn't really change the functionality of the trap in the first place.
Magic Dealer wrote: However, while the spell can penetrate barriers, 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it Those same things will also block line of sight/effect to the traps sensor.
As to putting non detection on everything, it sends the CR through the roof.
I guess I should have said magic items instead of magic devices in my previous post. Single activation traps with no reset are like one use items and self reseting are like wands and staffs. So you can use the table from page 267 of the Core Book to determine info about the trap. The Spellcraft check would use the trap's CR instead of the item's caster level.
Also giving the rogue a circumstance bonus from the info might be a suitable benefit. Kind of like giving a PC a bonus to a second perception test after another party member points out something he saw but others didn't. I would think that a +2 for succeeding on the Knowledge (arcana) check or a +4 for a successful Spellcraft check wouldn't be too far off the mark. This would be useful for lower level PCs to bypass magical traps earlier in their adventures, which means that you could feel more at ease placing them in their path.
A rogue in a CR 3 party cannot succeed on a DC 27 Acid Arrow trap with regularity. A 4th Level rogue with great dex (19) and max ranks with mastercraft tools would have a 13(?, 4(dex)+4(skill)+3(trained)+2(tools)) plus the d20 which means he would need a 14 just to break even. Giving him +2 or +4 brings it down to a manageable 12 or 10. A much safer number for multiple traps in a dungeon and it gives even xp for the party rather than throwing that same CR 3 trap against a CR6 party because the rogue can finally manage to not blow himself or the party up disarming it.
Happler wrote: Magic Aura? The problem with magic aura is that's a wizard spell and glyph of warding is a cleric spell. So the cleric cannot hide his glyph with magic aura...
He can buy a scroll and UMD it assuming he has ranks in UMD.
In my games, if a spellcaster wants to use "detect magic" to find a magic trap, he's rolling against his Knowledge (arcana): DC comes from ability modifier + glyph level. Once detected, the can cast another check against Knowledge (arcana) to identify. This works for all magic traps, not just glyphs.
Otherwise the wizard is going to become the "trapfinder" in any situation where magic traps are going to be present...however, I'm really thankful for everyone who chimed in. I've been away a few months and missed these posts.
Cheers, Paizo Nation!
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