But when I throw a smoke bomb or a stink bomb, does it still deal its direct and splash fire damage?
You are right it isn't clear, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't(or shouldn't)? Although, I sure wish it did. I am playing an Alchemist now and it would be nicer not to have to decide between a fog cloud and a regular bomb.
It is said that the fun part of RPGs is having choices to make(some times difficult ones.)Although if someone wants to disagree that would be great because I really want my fog cloud to deal fire damage!
It deals the damage, I believe this was discussed at some length earlier if you feel like thread searching
It deals the damage, I believe this was discussed at some length earlier if you feel like thread searching
Awesome. I think I'll have it deal damage until my GM tells we otherwise.
Umm, no, it has been discussed but no definite conclusion has been reached.
But if you compare the descriptions it is pretty much clear:
Frost bomb:
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it inflict cold damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a frost bomb are staggered on their next turn unless they succeed on a Fortitude save.
Smoke bomb:
Note the emphasis I added.
Soo, if you read it so that a smoke bomb deals fire damage in addition to creating a cloud then a frost bomb should do soo too - which is clearly not the case.
by extension would stink, poison and incendary clouds also do damage ?
heh might make incendary cloud worth using
but might be a bit too good for the others
you take Xd6 AND lose your std action
you take Xd6 AND 1d4 CON dmg
pretty potent in these cases
It deals the damage, I believe this was discussed at some length earlier if you feel like thread searching
I agree with the conclusion (it doesn't say "instead of" in the description), but the argument is far from settled.
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I'm with the camp that has it dealing damage in addition to the smoke. For a few reasons: 1) it doesn't state it has smoke instead of damage. 2) the smoke is twice the bomb's splash radius, if it doesn't do damage, it wouldn't have a splash radius. 3) it detonates, in my mind that means explosion.
I've been faq'ing this topic every time it comes up, and I'm really wishing they'd answer it already...
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We rule that it deals damage and does the effect unless it states otherwise. Up until 7th level it works fairly well though, I can see it being a big problem when the alchemist hit's 8th level though and he's throwing three bombs per round.
It's been bounced back and forth before and most people seem to lean towards the bombs doing damage plus the effect. Until I saw someone suggest otherwise I never considered it could be read differently.
I disagree on your frost bomb comparison...
As for now, it is relatively clear that they should do damage and anybody who is unsure should rightfully press the faq button.
"Relatively clear" means unclear ;-) in this you are right, Paizo should really really make a statement concerning this - especially because it has been questioned for quite some time.
However if you say Smoke bombs should deal damage, then Stink and Incendary should so too, because they share the same wording. Makes the Stink bomb extremely powerful!
I disagree on your frost bomb comparison...
As for now, it is relatively clear that they should do damage and anybody who is unsure should rightfully press the faq button."Relatively clear" means unclear ;-) in this you are right, Paizo should really really make a statement concerning this - especially because it has been questioned for quite some time.
However if you say Smoke bombs should deal damage, then Stink and Incendary should so too, because they share the same wording. Makes the Stink bomb extremely powerful!
heh you'd never use anything but stink
full damage plus fort save against each bomb or lose your std action for at least 1d4+1 roundswear an necklace of adaptation and you can move through your own cloud to bring the pain in person.
Greater TWF + Rapid Shot + Master Chysmist 10 + Fast Bombs + Haste
= 9 bombs in a single round (against Huge creature with poor touch AC they all hit)
= 90d6+45ish damage plus 9 fort saves vs neasuated ;) (45% chance of rolling a 1 and creature failing the check )
tasty ;)
While it is slightly ambiguous, it does seem to me that it deals damage as well as smoke.
"Smoke bomb*: When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an area equal to twice the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round per level."
I think the operatives are that a) it doesn't say instead of dealing damage, and b) it says "when it detonates" which means it explodes. Which usually mean it deals damage.
The other inference is that all of the other powers deal damage with a bonus (or directly and explicitly alter how damage is done).
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However if you say Smoke bombs should deal damage, then Stink and Incendary should so too, because they share the same wording. Makes the Stink bomb extremely powerful!
heh you'd never use anything but stink
full damage plus fort save against each bomb or lose your std action for at least 1d4+1 roundsIn my experience stink isn't super powerful. It's very much dependent on what sort of creatures you are fighting, seems all too common they are immune for some reason or another or simply have a good fort save. Against human targets it's awesome, as you get higher in level not as much.
It's excellent but not broken until... 8th level the class goes a little nuts. Fast bombs with rapid shot is super nasty. I kind of think the bombs which do spell likes shouldn't stack with fast bombs. Being able to stink bomb 3+ times per round in combination with force bomb so you can attack multiple saves gets to be super nasty against targets that breath.
However if you say Smoke bombs should deal damage, then Stink and Incendary should so too, because they share the same wording. Makes the Stink bomb extremely powerful!heh you'd never use anything but stink
full damage plus fort save against each bomb or lose your std action for at least 1d4+1 roundswear an necklace of adaptation and you can move through your own cloud to bring the pain in person.
Greater TWF + Rapid Shot + Master Chysmist 10 + Fast Bombs + Haste
= 9 bombs in a single round (against Huge creature with poor touch AC they all hit)
= 90d6+45ish damage plus 9 fort saves vs neasuated ;) (45% chance of rolling a 1 and creature failing the check )
tasty ;)
well I will try to avoid being overly nitpicky but the chance of rolling a 1 is not additive. Its like you have a 95% chance of not rolling a 1. 9 rolls means .95^9=.63 or 63% chance of not rolling a 1 which means that over 9 rolls they have a 37% chance of rolling a 1. Still pretty good. though you have a 37% chance of rolling a 1 of 1 of your 9 attacks as well. Not sure if pathfinder has specific fumble rules. Also are we getting 9 attacks from bab>16, full twf chain, rapid shot(does it work with splash weapons?), and haste. This is still pretty powerful but hardly insane.
you just threw 9 of your 20+int mod daily bombs at end of game. If any other class had an ability that used up more than 1/3 of all their usable offensive abilities in 1 round I would hope it would at least be effective. 2 more of these and you are spending the rest of the day handing out potions and being a secondary melee combatant.Personally I'd rather get to lvl 16 of regular alchemist, obtain eternal potion and walk around with an eternal blood rage or displacement on me so that when I am not wreaking havoc with my bombs for about 1.5 combats a day, I am still somewhat viable.
I can do the above 9 bombs dmg with a Master Chymist
+35/30/25/20 1d8+25 morning star+35/30/25 1d6+25 sicle
heh can even include a +30 bite attack in there too ;)
so he can do plenty when not going Nova with bombs
as for the probability there a reason I stoped after 2nd year uni math ;)
I use dirty math becuase it takes far less time to work out and its close enough most of the time ;) and stricly speaking the above example assuming the creature will on fail his check on a 1 which would mean its got a massive Fort save modifier more likely he'll fail on a 5 or less
However if you say Smoke bombs should deal damage, then Stink and Incendary should so too, because they share the same wording. Makes the Stink bomb extremely powerful!heh you'd never use anything but stink
full damage plus fort save against each bomb or lose your std action for at least 1d4+1 rounds
In my experience stink isn't super powerful. It's very much dependent on what sort of creatures you are fighting, seems all too common they are immune for some reason or another or simply have a good fort save. Against human targets it's awesome, as you get higher in level not as much.It's excellent but not broken until... 8th level the class goes a little nuts. Fast bombs with rapid shot is super nasty. I kind of think the bombs which do spell likes shouldn't stack with fast bombs. Being able to stink bomb 3+ times per round in combination with force bomb so you can attack multiple saves gets to be super nasty against targets that breath.
force bomb + stink bomb = I've fallen down and I only have a move action to stand up .... I'm TRAPPED ! :)
the one thing going for stink is the DC increases with your bombs unlike a normal stinking cloud that will always be a 2nd level spell without metamagic
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force bomb + stink bomb = I've fallen down and I only have a move action to stand up .... I'm TRAPPED ! :)
the one thing going for stink is the DC increases with your bombs unlike a normal stinking cloud that will always be a 2nd level spell without metamagic
Yeah, force bomb and stink bomb are a killer combo and IMO two of the best discoveries in the game.
Force bomb: Is a touch attack; it bypasses SR, DR, Energy Resistance, Incorporeal; it does a touch of secondary damage; *AND* gives a free trip attack based on reflex not CMD. Flipping amazing.
Stink bomb is stellar for anything that breaths and poison immunity doesn't help.
Frost bomb is also a nice mix with force bomb for when your allies are in melee. Prone and staggered while in melee is nasty.
force bomb + stink bomb = I've fallen down and I only have a move action to stand up .... I'm TRAPPED ! :)
the one thing going for stink is the DC increases with your bombs unlike a normal stinking cloud that will always be a 2nd level spell without metamagic
Yeah, force bomb and stink bomb are a killer combo and IMO two of the best discoveries in the game.
Force bomb: Is a touch attack; it bypasses SR, DR, Energy Resistance, Incorporeal; it does a touch of secondary damage; *AND* gives a free trip attack based on reflex not CMD. Flipping amazing.
Stink bomb is stellar for anything that breaths and poison immunity doesn't help.
Frost bomb is also a nice mix with force bomb for when your allies are in melee. Prone and staggered while in melee is nasty.
when you think about Huge monster with terrible ref defense are really suceptible to force bombs knocking them prone. and considering your measly +30ish CMB at high levels isn't even going to come close to the 50-60CMD's of those huge monsters , it looks even better.
acutally would a force bomb hitting a flying creature cause it to fall out of the sky or would there be a fly check involved?
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force bomb + stink bomb = I've fallen down and I only have a move action to stand up .... I'm TRAPPED ! :)
the one thing going for stink is the DC increases with your bombs unlike a normal stinking cloud that will always be a 2nd level spell without metamagic
Yeah, force bomb and stink bomb are a killer combo and IMO two of the best discoveries in the game.
Stink bomb is stellar for anything that breaths and poison immunity doesn't help.
Unless you go by the Ultimate Magic part where they added the poison descriptor to the stinking cloud spell.
Why are you restarting 9 year old threads on a different subject instead of just asking the question in a thread of your own? Anyway,
When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an area equal to twice the bomb's splash radius for 1 round per level.
Note that it says nothing about the damage. The smoke bomb doesn't affect the damage (FAQ) it just adds a fog cloud and certainly doesn't make the damage recur, the inferno bomb discovery is the one that comes closest to doing that.