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Hmmm, the language does seem a bit unclear. Using other domain powers as a basis, it would appear (IMO) that you would be able to break up the Hops into multiple uses provided your total daily hoping doesn't exceed 10ft x cleric level. Although, adding "per day" to the end of the description may indicate that you only get this ability once per day. Since Dim Door is a 4th level spell (available at 7th level with a more powerful effect) and this power is not available until level 8, I would rule in favor of the former interpretation.
Dimensional Hop (Sp): At 8th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought.
So you can teleport up to 80 feet per day at level 8 and must use at least 5 feet at a time when doing so. Additional creatures can be taken but eat up and equal amount of distance per extra creature.
Yes you may use this multiple times in a day as long as you don't exceed the maximum distance for the day (80 feet in the case of an 8th level cleric).
The spell also states that the teleportation movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, does initiation of the ability, itself, provoke? We had an instance where this was in question. A cleric with the travel domain attempted to use the Dimensional Hop to pull a comrade out of combat. Both the cleric and the comrade where within the enemy's threatening space (it had reach).
To restate, it is understood that the movement is "dimensional" and does not provoke, but does activation of the ability provoke if done within a threatened square?
Apologies if this shows up as a double post. I'm having technical difficulties.
The initiation of the movement is the teleportation movement. So, no attack of opportunity.
The initiation of the movement is the teleportation movement. So, no attack of opportunity.
I disagree - the power is called out as a spell-like ability. That means it provokes an AoO unless you cast it defensively.
I think the "this movement doesn't provoke" text is just a redundant explanation of the meaning of teleport, ie that you don't pass through that space in between and thus can move from point A to point C without getting an AoO from the guy standing at point B directly in between.
Sorry for the necro, but does the use of this power counts as a movement? I know it demands a movement action to be used, but, can I make a 5 foot step and then use Dimensional Hop to get away from a hot spot?
From the description of the travel domain:
Dimensional Hop (Sp): At 8th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought.
(Emphasis mine.) The "movement" from this ability doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity (teleportation usually doesn't). Since it's a spell-like ability, you might provoke one if you use it in melee without casting on the defensive - but that will be because you used attempted to use a spell-like ability in melee, not from the resulting movement.
As for whether or not Gloves of Reconnaissance can give you line of sight for this power:
Line of Effect
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight. A line of effect starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that would block it. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.
Line of Sight
A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment).
(Again, emphasis mine.) Line of Sight is the same thing as Line of Effect with visibility restrictions; Line of Effect is cancelled by solid barriers. As such, you could not use Gloves of Reconnaissance in concert with Dimension Hop to bypass walls and locked doors (presuming what's what you meant).
James Jacobs does indeed assert that glass and Walls of Force don't block line of sight. However, his area of expertise is more the fluff of Golarion rather than the mechanics of the game. His line of reasoning seems rational enough - in essence he's saying "If you can see it, you've got line of sight, right?" But that's also in direct contradiction with the text. I'm willing to wager that this was an unresearched (erroneous) response rather than a correction, and he would likely change his position if presented with the text in question. (Note the part where he says, "the rules for line of sight in 3.5 work perfectly as is", and the fact that no errata has been issued despite the fact that the comment was made back in 2009.)
"Line of Sight" has two components - (1) sight and (2) a direct line. If you have one but not the other, you don't have line of sight. Teleport works just fine via scrying, but read the description of Teleport - it doesn't require "line of sight" (unless you're trying to teleport to a moving boat, which is a special case). Neither does Dimension Door. In fact, both of these spells can be used completely blind, without any kind of visual (or even prior memory) of your target destination (again excluding moving boats). Dimension Hop isn't comparable at all in that it does require line of sight, a special case unto itself.
Line of Effect
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight. A line of effect starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that would block it. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.
Line of Sight
A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment).
(Again, emphasis mine.) Line of Sight is the same thing as Line of Effect with visibility restrictions; Line of Effect is cancelled by solid barriers. As such, you could not use Gloves of Reconnaissance in concert with Dimension Hop to bypass walls and locked doors (presuming what's what you meant).
So, a glass window blocks line of sight? Interesting.
You know what else blocks line of sight? Invisible creatures! They are solid... so, anything behind them is blocked.
We've been running invisibility wrong this whole time, because you don't have line of sight to anything behind an invisible creature/object. So... you can clearly tell where they are, exactly.
So, a glass window blocks line of sight? Interesting.You know what else blocks line of sight? Invisible creatures! They are solid... so, anything behind them is blocked.
We've been running invisibility wrong this whole time, because you don't have line of sight to anything behind an invisible creature/object. So... you can clearly tell where they are, exactly.
You can see through an invisible creature just fine. That was never contested. The question is regarding line of sight, which is a specific term with a specific definition. Your character might see Excalibur through three feet of invisble rock, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll have a direct line of sight with the sword when he tries to cast Detect Magic on it.
You can see through an invisible creature just fine. That was never contested. The question is regarding line of sight, which is a specific term with a specific definition. Your character might see Excalibur through three feet of invisble rock, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll have a direct line of sight with the sword when he tries to cast Detect Magic on it.
So, a glass window blocks line of sight? Interesting.You know what else blocks line of sight? Invisible creatures! They are solid... so, anything behind them is blocked.
We've been running invisibility wrong this whole time, because you don't have line of sight to anything behind an invisible creature/object. So... you can clearly tell where they are, exactly.
Of course he does.
A line of effect starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that would block it.
A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect... factors that limit normal sight.
...
For line of sight, you draw a line from any corner of your space and extends to the limits of your range of sight, or until it strikes a barrier that would block it.
Invisible and/or see through solid objects don't block line of sight.
Why? Because they don't block sight.
Your paraphrase is inaccurate.
"A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment)."
Not "instead of" or "comparably", but in addition to the pre-existing restrictions for line of effect.
I see where your point, though, so I'll concede on being incorrect here. (I don't agree with authority trumping rationality, whether it be via person or book.) On the flipside, I see a big difference between claiming to Detect Evil through a glass window you're looking out of (reasonable), and claiming line of sight through a scrying device (the discussion earlier).
Your paraphrase is inaccurate."A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment)."Not "instead of" or "comparably", but in addition to the pre-existing restrictions for line of effect.
I see where your point, though, so I'll concede on being incorrect here. (I don't agree with authority trumping rationality, whether it be via person or book.) On the flipside, I see a big difference between claiming to Detect Evil through a glass window you're looking out of (reasonable), and claiming line of sight through a scrying device (the discussion earlier).
I agree, scrying doesn't grant line of sight.
That is one of the reasons the spell specifically mentions that you have only a % chance of being able to still use some spells which rely on line of sight.
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Line of Effect
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight. A line of effect starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that would block it. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.
Line of Sight
A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment).
(Again, emphasis mine.) Line of Sight is the same thing as Line of Effect with visibility restrictions; Line of Effect is cancelled by solid barriers. As such, you could not use Gloves of Reconnaissance in concert with Dimension Hop to bypass walls and locked doors (presuming what's what you meant).
A creature don't block line of effect. It don't fill the whole square.
A target behind another creature, even a gargantuan one, don't give total cover.Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.So, a glass window blocks line of sight? Interesting.
You know what else blocks line of sight? Invisible creatures! They are solid... so, anything behind them is blocked.
We've been running invisibility wrong this whole time, because you don't have line of sight to anything behind an invisible creature/object. So... you can clearly tell where they are, exactly.
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Your paraphrase is inaccurate."A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment)."Not "instead of" or "comparably", but in addition to the pre-existing restrictions for line of effect.
I see where your point, though, so I'll concede on being incorrect here. (I don't agree with authority trumping rationality, whether it be via person or book.) On the flipside, I see a big difference between claiming to Detect Evil through a glass window you're looking out of (reasonable), and claiming line of sight through a scrying device (the discussion earlier).
Actually it don't seem completely reasonable. The invisible rock block line of effect for something behind it.
The problem is that sometime line of effect and line of sight don't overlap (seeing a basilisk through a wall of force), sometime they overlap (firing a searing light thorough a wall of force). Same for a glass window. I would not allow someone to use Detect evil, magic and so on through a glass pane.
As I see it the difference generally is between seeing something and being affected by it (the basilisk) and something trying to affect you (the searing light spell).
The detections spells are in between the two extremes, but allowing them to work is boosting them.
BTW, a wall of force or an invisible rock between the caster and the supposedly magical object is a magic field between the the two that completely cover the object. I would have that hide the aura of teh object behind the wall.
Nothing like casting a necro post to suddenly suffer a hijack! XDDD Ayway, my doubt stands: Is it possible to take a 5 foot step and then use Dimension Hop as a movement action? Specifically, the situation was me channeling positive energy against undeads, then take a 5 foot step to get out of the spectre's reach (damn 2's in the roll... got 14 on my Fortitude TS, but... XD)and use Dimensional Hop as a movement action to get behind all my teammates.
Nothing like casting a necro post to suddenly suffer a hijack! XDDD Ayway, my doubt stands: Is it possible to take a 5 foot step and then use Dimension Hop as a movement action? Specifically, the situation was me channeling positive energy against undeads, then take a 5 foot step to get out of the spectre's reach (damn 2's in the roll... got 14 on my Fortitude TS, but... XD)and use Dimensional Hop as a movement action to get behind all my teammates.
Yes, you can dimension hop and 5ft step in the same round.
Actually it don't seem completely reasonable. The invisible rock block line of effect for something behind it.
The problem is that sometime line of effect and line of sight don't overlap (seeing a basilisk through a wall of force), sometime they overlap (firing a searing light thorough a wall of force). Same for a glass window. I would not allow someone to use Detect evil, magic and so on through a glass pane.
As I see it the difference generally is between seeing something and being affected by it (the basilisk) and something trying to affect you (the searing light spell).
The detections spells are in between the two extremes, but allowing them to work is boosting them.BTW, a wall of force or an invisible rock between the caster and the supposedly magical object is a magic field between the the two that completely cover the object. I would have that hide the aura of teh object behind the wall.
Now, you see, I had assumed the same thing as well earlier. But reading over the descriptions of the detection spells had me wondering if the rules were consistent on this matter.
Consider the blurb of text included at the end of almost every detect spell:
The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.
So, unless someone painted over a window in lead paint, you could probably detect through most windows. In the earlier example, I was going to say, "Ha-ha! This actually doesn't work per the RAW!" but the non-functionality of magical detection through three feet of invisible rock has more to do with the specific restrictions of detection spells rather than any Line of Sight issue. Further complicating matters is this little bit here from Detect Magic:
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).
(Emphasis mine.) Also see Detect Evil:
3rd Round: The power and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.
(Again emphasis mine.) So apparently, the Detect spells can actually function without line of sight at all (albeit LoS helps quite a bit). But yeah. I dunno; lots of oddity with this situation. =/
I figure that LoS has been around for a long time. But folks wanted to deal with see-thru barriers blocking effects, so they created the concept LoE. This then lets you have cases where you have one or the other but not both, and affecting spells.
/cevah
Sorry to bring this to light again. But I agree that since the ability is spell like it could provoke an attack of opportunity unless the player makes a conce traction check of 15 + double spell level.
But what is the spell level of Dimension Hop?
That's a perfectly reasonable question that isn't answered in the writeup of the power, and should be. A SLA that isn't just a duplicate of an existing spell needs to have that info in it, and this doesn't. Technically it should also say that it's a Conjuration [teleport] effect, but it doesn't say that either (because it's kind of obvious).
Personally I would say 3rd, but that's nothing more than an informed guess. It's not as powerful as Dimension Door at 4th, otherwise I would say 4th because you get the power at 8th level.
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Sorry to bring this to light again. But I agree that since the ability is spell like it could provoke an attack of opportunity unless the player makes a conce traction check of 15 + double spell level.
But what is the spell level of Dimension Hop?
I don't remember how it was in the Playtest versions, but blessings are supernatural abilites which don't provoke. They are not SLAs.
Blessings (Su): A warpriest’s deity inf luences his
alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and
how others see him. Each warpriest can select two blessings
from among those granted by his deity (each deity grants
the blessings tied to its domains). A warpriest can select
an alignment blessing (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if
his alignment matches that domain. If a warpriest isn’t
devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two blessings
to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities, subject
to GM approval. The restriction on alignment domains
still applies.
Each blessing grants a minor power at 1st level and
a major power at 10th level. A warpriest can call upon
the power of his blessings a number of times per day (in
any combination) equal to 3 + 1/2 his warpriest level (to a
maximum of 13 times per day at 20th level). Each time he
calls upon any one of his blessings, it counts against his
daily limit. The save DC for these blessings is equal to 10 +
1/2 the warpriest’s level + the warpriest’s Wisdom modifier.
If a warpriest also has levels in a class that grants cleric
domains, the blessings chosen must match the domains
selected by that class. Subject to GM discretion, the
warpriest can change his former blessings or domains to
make them conform.
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I should have clarified. One of my players is a Warpriest and we are fine with the Blessings and the fact they are (Su) answers a lot of questions that could be raised.
This is specifically about the domain power Dimension Hop from the Travel domain.
Dimensional Hop (Sp): At 8th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought.
It is specifically called out as a (Sp) which means it is subject to concentration checks, attacks of opportunity and so on but doesn't let you know what the spell level is in order to calculate the DCs required.
Incidentally, I would be inclined to agree with Steel's assessment that it is in line with about a 3rd level spell, kind of like a minor Dimension Door.
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I should have clarified. One of my players is a Warpriest and we are fine with the Blessings and the fact they are (Su) answers a lot of questions that could be raised.
This is specifically about the domain power Dimension Hop from the Travel domain.
Dimensional Hop (Sp): At 8th level, you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You must have line of sight to your destination to use this ability. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each creature brought.
It is specifically called out as a (Sp) which means it is subject to concentration checks, attacks of opportunity and so on but doesn't let you know what the spell level is in order to calculate the DCs required.
Incidentally, I would be inclined to agree with Steel's assessment that it is in line with about a 3rd level spell, kind of like a minor Dimension Door.
Ah, I'm not sure where I got the idea we were talking about the warpriest blessing. Just too much warpriest on my mind, apparently. For what it's worth, this is how it's worded for the warpriest (note the specific lack of (sp)).
Dimensional Hop (major): At 10th level, you can teleport
up to 20 feet as a move action. You can increase this distance
by expending another use of your blessing—each use spent
grants an additional 20 feet. You must have line of sight to
your destination. This teleportation doesn’t provoke attacks
of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures
with you, but each such creature requires expending one
additional use of your blessing, regardless of the distance
traveled. (For example, transporting yourself 40 feet costs
2 uses of your blessing, and transporting an additional
person this distance costs 1 more use.)
So yeah, the cleric domain power does provoke. And no, I don't know what the spell level is supposed to be.