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Just had this idea for a character concept, and since I've never multiclassed full divine/arcane casters before, just wondering about any pitfalls to watch out for.
Basically, character with alien ancestry of some sort(benign, but downright weird. Breaking out with obvious alien anatomy(tentacles for the long reach ability for example). Huge Desna fan. Tentatively thinking about taking Tongues(Aklo?) as the Oracle curse, though 3rd party options might be viable as well.
Pretty much shooting to take the aberrantness and heavenliness as far as they can go together while remaining a dependable member of the party.
Anyone played something along the lines of this combo(sorc/oracle) before? How did it work out? Pretty much working with a 20 point buy here, though it could easily go up to 25.
heh pitfalls ? .... the pitfalls are you can heavily suck if you try and make a balanced build
pick one side and go heavy into it with a splash in the other.
There's is actually a very stong combo available to you by doing this
Sorc1/Orcale 1
take the Awesome display Orcale mystery and color spray as one of your sorc spell choices
with a high cha you'll be stunning groups of monsters with ease
it gets better too by focusing on sorc after that you'll get access to the much higher level illusion patterning spells (Hypnotic pattern, rainbow pattern and Scintillating pattern) which also benefit from this ability that the oracle doesn't get access to.
with a starting charisma of 20 at worst 18 you pattern spell treat all monsters as 4-5HD lower than they acutally are for the purposes of what effects them. which means you can dish out the worst effects long into the mid levels and just about the time they start getting weak scintillating pattern comes along and makes you a god
If you want to attempt a balance, get into the Mystic Theurge PrC as soon as possible so you can increase your divine and arcane spellcasting at once, and try to put a good amount of your feats into Extra Revelation, because those are very strong Oracle abilities.
If you want to attempt a balance, get into the Mystic Theurge PrC as soon as possible so you can increase your divine and arcane spellcasting at once, and try to put a good amount of your feats into Extra Revelation, because those are very strong Oracle abilities.
please don't take offense but that's a really bad idea ;)
to qualify for MT with oracle and sorc you require 4 levels in each which means you level 9 taking your first MT levelwhich also means at 9th level your still only casting 2nd level spells !!! not to mention your oracle and sorc bloodline and mysteries stop improving becuase MT doesn't progress class abilities (stuck at level 4 for both)
at 18th level you've got level 7th spells in both which isn't terrible but its a long time to wait
there's really is no balanced way of doing it pick a side and have a little splash in the other for flavor.
you'll also want to the talent that gives you +2 caster level up to your hit dice
please don't take offense but that's a really bad idea ;)
It's not such a bad idea if you do it properly; which requires the use of some 3.5 material. I myself am currently playing a sorcerer (updated shadow bloodline from Wayfinder #1) 4 / oracle (lore) 1 (haunted curse) / mystic theurge 1. By no means is it a powerhouse, but it is versatile character. The build is not for the faint of heart however as it eats up a lot of resources (in the form of two feats and a trait) to make it viable.
Here's how it works. The key to not sucking is to qualify for Mystic Theurge early by taking the Alternate Source Spell metamagic feat from Dragon Magazine 325, page 61. It allows you to change the nature of the spells you cast from arcane to divine or vice versa.
[Metamagic]
You can prepare any of your spells as either divine or arcane.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast both divine and arcane spells.
Benefit: You can choose to prepare any of your divine spells
as arcane spells or any of your arcane spells as divine spells.
An alternative-sourced spell uses up a spell slot from the class
that normally grants the spell. such a spell is prepared normally.
An alternative-sourced spell is cast as if your caster level were
1 level lower. For example, a 1st level cleric/6th level wizard
casts a divine fireball as a 5th level wizard.
Add to that the Practiced Spellcaster feat (from Complete Arcane, page 82), applied to your oracle class level along along with Pathfinder's own the Magical Knack trait, applied to your sorcerer levels, and you end up with my character: a Sor 4 / Ora 1 / MyT 1 with full caster levels in both progressions.
please don't take offense but that's a really bad idea ;)It's not such a bad idea if you do it properly; which requires the use of some 3.5 material. I myself am currently playing a sorcerer (updated shadow bloodline from Wayfinder #1) 4 / oracle (lore) 1 (haunted curse) / mystic theurge 1. By no means is it a powerhouse, but it is versatile character. The build is not for the faint of heart however as it eats up a lot of resources (in the form of two feats and a trait) to make it viable.
Here's how it works. The key to not sucking is to qualify for Mystic Theurge early by taking the Alternate Source Spell metamagic feat from Dragon Magazine 325, page 61. It allows you to change the nature of the spells you cast from arcane to divine or vice versa.
** spoiler omitted **So, with it, one can take four levels of sorcerer and one level of oracle and, with the feat, convert his second level arcane spells into divine spells; thereby meeting the prerequisite for Mystic Theurge. And for those who'd bemoan the fact that Alternate Source Spell isn't a core Pathfinder feat, I'd say that it's official 3.5 material published by the fine folks at Paizo. ;)
Add to that the Practiced Spellcaster feat (from Complete Arcane, page 82), applied to your oracle class level along along with Pathfinder's own the Magical Knack trait, applied to your sorcerer levels, and you end up with my character:...
heheh you certainly get points for obscure source :)
the viablity of that would toally depend on his GM ruling such material in or out, I know my GM would rule it out mainly due to its source.
heheh you certainly get points for obscure source :)
Woo hoo! Points!
the viablity of that would toally depend on his GM ruling such material in or out, I know my GM would rule it out mainly due to its source.
Which can be said for any material; including the core stuff one's GM doesn't like.
To a GM hesitant to allow this material I would point out, as you did, how badly a core sorcerer/oracle/mystic theurge would suck (at 9th level you're still only casting 2nd level spells) and then tell him that by wasting half of your early build resources you'd at least be casting arcane spells only one full spell level behind a single classed wizard. If he doesn't take pity on you, then move on to another character concept.
...or another GM. ;)
I have to agree with Phasics and say as a DM i probably wouldn't allow it since it is such an obscure source. It even seems to be counter intuitive to any of the other DnD fluff that eludes to gods granting divine spells to casters.
Ignoring the fluff i'd allow it if the converted spell took a spell slot of the appropriate casting class. ie Divine Fireball would be spell level 3 from the divine spell slots.
as a DM i probably wouldn't allow it since it is such an obscure source.
A source is only obscure until one is familiar with it. Besides, I'd hardly call Dragon Magazine obscure; it was a mainstay of the D&D gaming community for decades.
Ignoring the fluff i'd allow it if the converted spell took a spell slot of the appropriate casting class. ie Divine Fireball would be spell level 3 from the divine spell slots.
Actually, that'd make the feat far more useful; superior even to the Mystic Theurge's combined spells class ability. As is, the feat is only useful for qualifying for the Mystic Theurge; apparently what the fine folks at Paizo intended it to be used for. I've yet to find any practical reason to actually apply the feat's effects to my character's spells.
as a DM i probably wouldn't allow it since it is such an obscure source.A source is only obscure until one is familiar with it. Besides, I'd hardly call Dragon Magazine obscure; it was a mainstay of the D&D gaming community for decades.
Ignoring the fluff i'd allow it if the converted spell took a spell slot of the appropriate casting class. ie Divine Fireball would be spell level 3 from the divine spell slots.Actually, that'd make the feat far more useful; superior even to the Mystic Theurge's combined spells class ability. As is, the feat is only useful for qualifying for the Mystic Theurge; apparently what the fine folks at Paizo intended it to be used for. I've yet to find any practical reason to actually apply the feat's effects to my character's spells.
I apologize, obscure was not the right word for it. Dragon had some great ideas, it's just that they did release some unbalanced feats as well, mind you 3.5 was broken in a lot of cases too!
The feat itself should have just been renamed to "mystic theurge early qualifier feat" instead. ;)
Seriously though I think the swapping feat would give you some versatility and to balance it out you could have it cost a spell level higher. It wouldn't be beneficial for qualifying as a mystic theurge but you would have some nice uses for it when you need that extra wizard/cleric spell.
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Definitely weighing all the options thrown out here guys, thanks.
I knew going in that an even oracle/sorcerer spread wouldn't be so hot and that it is probably going to have to be lopsided one way or the other. The hard part is choosing which to get the most flavor bang for the buck.(sorc for alien weirdness, oracle for heavenly lightshowness) Those extra revelation feats Killbourne mentioned might come in handy there actually...
Keeping that MT combo in mind, along with the feat from Dragon. It would probably clear with the GM, but on the other hand MT does cheat you out of the sorc and oracle perks. Then again, high level spells.
Decisions decisions. Agn, thanks guys.
If you want to attempt a balance, get into the Mystic Theurge PrC as soon as possible so you can increase your divine and arcane spellcasting at once, and try to put a good amount of your feats into Extra Revelation, because those are very strong Oracle abilities.please don't take offense but that's a really bad idea ;)
to qualify for MT with oracle and sorc you require 4 levels in each which means you level 9 taking your first MT levelwhich also means at 9th level your still only casting 2nd level spells !!! not to mention your oracle and sorc bloodline and mysteries stop improving becuase MT doesn't progress class abilities (stuck at level 4 for both)
at 18th level you've got level 7th spells in both which isn't terrible but its a long time to wait
there's really is no balanced way of doing it pick a side and have a little splash in the other for flavor.
you'll also want to the talent that gives you +2 caster level up to your hit dice
i completely agree with this advice. i gave the same advice to someone who wanted to do the same thing, plus youre only casting 2nd level spells as a full caster by level 8, where as other full casters are casting 4th level spells. im not saying that 2nd level spells at upper levels are bad but as a full caster you should be doing more. Mystic Theurge is one of those classes that i actually think taking wizard or cleric is good for due to the game mechanics giving you a spell level 1 level earlier, which most of the time i forgo due to style of the character and my own personal play style. i would have to say that you should take one with a splash of the other, either one with a splash of the other is good, because Sorcerer is my favorite class and oracle is my 3rd favorite.
The problem with wiz/clr is that you need two decent mental stats to be able to cast them all up. Multiclassing Sorc/Oracle solves that problem by using 1 mental stat instead of two.
With multiclassing you do get the benefit of having curative spells mixed with some arcane control/damage/whatever. I wanted to try this out, but the spellcasting disparaty kinda turned me down, but with those "obscure" feats, it seems more reasonable, why would a GM rule them out? it's not like you gain powers with it, you burn up two feats in order to make it reasonable, ergo, the "obscurity" its justifiable.
Decisions decisions. Agn, thanks guys.
NP. Just let us know what you decide.
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I'm intending to play a character quite like this in a home campaign, and figured I'd ask a question here, rather than start a new thread.
I'm aiming for an Infernal Sorcerer with Lore Oracle thrown in. I have the build down pretty well, with the exception of spells. The sheer number of Spells Known I have to choose from two different lists is mind-boggling.
Anyone have any tips or ideas of what to pick for each? Looking at up to 3rd level spells of each.
Thanks!