Weird Cavalier Math

[Maestr0]

So we have a Human Cavalier with 18 STR on a horse.
Lance Damage for M is 1d8 x3
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
Spirited Charge Feat
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
Supreme Charge (Ex): At 20th level, whenever the cavalier makes a charge attack while mounted, he deals double the normal amount of damage (or triple if using a lance).

Ok so if this cavalier has all these abilities how much damage on a crit?
Amy I missing any relevenat feats to make this more absurd? Just charge related. Not Power Attack or Vital Strike.

I see 1d8 x11 but that is just me.

[Jadeite]

1d8x6 on a critical hit. Still rather nice, although a critical hit only increases the normal damage output by one half.

[Ardenup]

It's supposed to be rediculous damage- it's a capstone!

Unlike Master Hunter for example, the cavalier ability is pure damage.
Most other melee capstones include a fort save or die effect.

[Pirate]

Yar!

...alright. *cracks knuckles*

First off, multiple multipliers do not add like that. This is clearly stated here, here, and on page 117 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Heading "Damage", sub-heading "Multiplying Damage".

x2 + x2 = x3

x2 + x3 = x4

x3 + x3 = x5

etc.

Second, Spirited charge is commonly believed to replace the normal charge multiplier, not stack with it. Albeit, this is not 100% clear, but that's how most people (in my experience) seem to interpret it.

So, you have a x3 crit weapon that does x3 on a (spirited) charge, as a 20th level Cavalier for an extra x3 class bonus.

That's a x7 final multiplier.

Of course, some people feel that the Cavalier ability acts like Spring Attack in that it increases your weapons current multiplier by x+1, in which case Jadeite is correct in saying that it is 1d8x6.

extra stuff to make things hurt:

If you/your DM is OK with modifying special weapons, I recommend a Sun Lance (sun blade but in lance form). The Sun Blade is the equivalent of a +5 weapon price wise, if you like to break it down via pluses. That gives you an extra x+1 vs negative energy creatures (undead) - (the fluff of the sun blade is assuming a bastard sword, which is x2 normally. with a weapon that is more than that, it increases it by x+1)

So now it's a possible x8 final (DM approval needed) or x7 (based on Supreme charge interpretation).

Also: you CAN power attack on a charge. With Furious Focus, you take NO penalty to your Power-Attacking charge to hit modifier.

Assuming a critical hit, you also gain free bull-rush/trip/or sunder attempts as a high level cavalier. There are critical feats that add effects, as well as any Inquisitor or Paladin buddy casting Resounding Blow and Weapon of Awe on your weapon to add shaken/frightened & staggered (and possibly deafened as well) to the crit.

Order of the sword Cavalier after 8th level also gets to add his mounts strength bonus to his own strength bonus. With some extra funds, you can get some mounts to over a 40 strength.

Give both you and the mount Giantskin armor of the storm giant variety, and you get a +8 size bonus to strength (each) and increase your weapon base damage by 2 steps (up to 3d6 for the lance).

You cavalier's challenge adds your level to damage, which also gets multiplied. (It is no longer "precision" damage, simply extra. Though some may argue that because they used the word "extra" instead of "bonus", it in fact does not multiply. I have not yet seen a faq or errata saying one or the other, only various poster opinions).

An order of the sword Cavalier's Knights Challenge adds your charisma to that as well. (I've played an order of the sword, so I know it the best)

In this situation, you'd do more average damage on a critical hit with a +1 corrosive-flaming-icy-shocking burst weapon that with a +5 something weapon (unless it's the Sun Lance, but I haven’t actually done the math to compare these yet), as your weapon will also explode for an extra damage dice.

each burst is a +2 enhancement.

assuming a x6 multiplier, a straight +1 bonus will give an extra 6 damage. +12 for a +2.

the burst on a x6 will do 1d6 + 5d10 extra damage. Minimum 6, average of 31.

Just as an example.

Mounts that kick butt are: Elephant (super strong). Tiger (super strong and pounce). Roc (it/you can fly!) There are others, but I'm getting lazy now. ^_^;;

~P

(edit: a few glaring spelling mistakes have been fixed)

[Maestr0]

Oh yeah i totally see what you mean now regarding spirited charge, so then the math is:
Lance
x2
Spirited Charge
x3
Supreme Charge
x3 + x3 = x5
Critical
x5 + x3 = x7

Not quite as crazy as I had initially thought, but take Improved Critical, Power Attack, and a Crit damage weapon enhance and you are talking huge damage on a regular basis.

Thanks for the assistance :D.

While I am asking Crit questions. The cavalier ability gives it double and then Improved is double so is that
Lance 20
Improved Critcal 19-20
The cavalier ability 18-20
?
And if someone has a kukri with Improved Critical do they get a crit range of 16-20?

[Shadow_of_death]

Multiple crit range modifiers do not stack

[Dosgamer]

Maestr0 wrote:

And if someone has a kukri with Improved Critical do they get a crit range of 16-20?

IIRC kukris crit on 18-20 normally, so improved critical doubles that range to 15-20.

[Maestr0]

DURP I just re-read the Mighty Charge and it even says does not stack.