Forgive me for asking, perhaps I'm just not seeing something. What exactly is the point of the Alter Winds spell? One minute casting time, touch range, only 10' emanation from an immobile point in space, does not affect magical winds... and on top of that a Will save negates?
I suppose it's a little useful if you need to setup camp in a windstorm or something, since it does have an hour/level duration. Even then you can only reduce the windspeed by one step though.
I know it's only a 1st level spell, but I can't think of any reason why I'd want to prepare this, or even spend 25 GP on a scroll, much less choose it as a Sorcerer spell. Can someone enlighten me? What am I missing here?
Sailing, for one.
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Forgive me for asking, perhaps I'm just not seeing something. What exactly is the point of the Alter Winds spell? One minute casting time, touch range, only 10' emanation from an immobile point in space, does not affect magical winds... and on top of that a Will save negates?
I suppose it's a little useful if you need to setup camp in a windstorm or something, since it does have an hour/level duration. Even then you can only reduce the windspeed by one step though.
I know it's only a 1st level spell, but I can't think of any reason why I'd want to prepare this, or even spend 25 GP on a scroll, much less choose it as a Sorcerer spell. Can someone enlighten me? What am I missing here?
The point is to give air elementalists another option for a spell. You can use it to clear out bad air, use it to take care of persistent fog/mist effects, use it to set up some sort of creepy effect to scare rubes with, or whatever. And reducing windspeed can, at times, be pretty handy.
Not all spells need to be equally useful in all situations. And some might only be useful in very limited situations.
And depending on personal preference, some spells might be of the type that you'd NEVER cast. For me, blink is in that category.
It's one of the attractions of the game to me, honestly, that there's so much variety in the system. Having spells you hate is in some weird sort of ways as important as having spells you love.
That said... I do eagerly await folks' replies to this question, cause it IS one of those spells that could stand to have some nifty ideas for how to use it come along. That's not bad. That's fun!
Sailing, for one.
Doesn't work, because the effect is immobile. It'll give you a little bit of a breeze to get started, but then the boat moves on and leaves that little 20' diameter pocket of wind behind.
The point is to give air elementalists another option for a spell. You can use it to clear out bad air, use it to take care of persistent fog/mist effects, use it to set up some sort of creepy effect to scare rubes with, or whatever. And reducing windspeed can, at times, be pretty handy.
Not all spells need to be equally useful in all situations. And some might only be useful in very limited situations.
Fair enough, and I do like that both limits and scales by level as far as what wind levels can be affected. I also like the fact that it doesn't effect magical wind areas. Again, this is just a 1st level spell. Why the Will save though? What does a strong mind have to do with how fast the wind is blowing? Are you disbelieving the wind?
When I look at the other 1st level spells from the Core book I see things that obviously have situational uses too. The difference is that the situations where they might come in handy are relatively obvious. So maybe I'll keep a scroll or two of them deep in my bag of holding just in case. With all the restrictions (1-step-only, long casting time, touch range, small area, negated by a very easy save), this spell just doesn't seem to measure up to everything else on its level.
Since Alter Winds is a low level spell and has a long duration a villian could have one regularly cast within his chamber of a dungeon; moving light wind conditions (0-10 mph) up to moderate. This would ensure that any fog effect (Stinking Cloud, Fog Cloud, Obscuring Mist), would be cut short of their full duration. If cast at the top of a tower or in an building with windows in an area known for already being fairly windy do to location or season (moderate 11-20 mph) you'd move the wind up to severe, dispersing such spells in only one round, as well as being able to affect "heavier" fogs (Solid Fog, Acid Fog). Fogs can annoy casters, as they block line of sight, slow movement, and sometimes cause other ill effects like continuous damage (I'm looking at you Acid Fog). For a small investment of a couple first level spell slots (or none, should he have a casting minion to do it if he can't be bothered) a villian no longer needs to worry about pesky fogs messing with him. If his chamber was the proper size and shape, he wouldn't even need to be in the area of enhanced wind to be bothered by it.
I actually like Alter Winds quite a bit because it encourages use of environmental effects. And by allowing wind and terrian to play a noticable role in the game past interesting backdrops, I feel, enhances immersion as well as allowing for more creative problem solving.
I can think of a handful of other examples for uses of Alter Winds, granted many of them work best an NPC using the features of his home (in this case the wind) to his advantage:
When camping with a wooded area not too far down-wind, this would lessen the likelihood of creatures passing nearby with scent to detect the party as a tasty meal by nose. (EDIT: Assuming downwind no longer counts as downwind when wind speed is reduced to nothing and the increased scent range from beind downwind is in PF as it was in 3.5 - I confess I haven't looked.)
When knowing you will be on the defensive and setting up a battlefield in advance, reducing the effectiveness of ranged weapons. A solid benefit if you like to rely on spells or melee more.
As a DM, I love it when my players get really into their characters. I had one player who played a noble turned mage who added it to his spellbook after picking it up off a previous villian and used it through his Arcane Bond when setting up camp in a troll lair they cleared out. Because "No man of his calibur should have to resign themself to sleeping in a place that makes a refuse heap smell like paradise!"
Or, as JJ mentioned above, creating a cinematic and frightening effect on some yokels. When I first read the spell I was reminded of a scene from a favorite book of mine, "The Name of the Wind", where the main character's first mentor impresses some locals harrassing him by causing the wind to buffet around him when he grew impatient.
I love situational spells, though I usually DM, so I get to set up encounters where they are used and are interesting and exciting, so I may be biased towards them.
Although, that all said, I too am curious as to the Will save, I hadn't noticed that before. Is that to recognize the wind is magically altered? Or is it to not be affected by the enhanced wind (checked movement, flying, ect)? If you make your save are projectiles you fire still at a penalty? Since it is immobile I don't think it is for a creature touched, because centering on a creature wouldn't do any good or make any sense, and there is no (object) next to the saving throw entry.
Its nice to see some elemental utility spells instead of more and more blast enemies with x dice of y element.
Still both Will save and Spell Resistance seem to be error a they have little to do with effects of the spell.
As we are playing in Legacy of Fire at the moment, having a camp set up with a nice breeze for the hottest hours of they day to help avoid heat damage is nice.
I have also played in dungeons/swamps where there could be a dangerous build up various gases. This allows you to keep a room clear for resting in a safer way.
Sailing, for one.Doesn't work, because the effect is immobile. It'll give you a little bit of a breeze to get started, but then the boat moves on and leaves that little 20' diameter pocket of wind behind.
Inertia.
The area aboard the ship is immobile, because that area is not actually moving. The area containing the spell is static aboard the ship; it changes speed of the wind (the movement of oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) within that specific area. The spell does not possess a chunk of air and move it around (because the spell area is immobile), thus it can be used for sailing. It can effectively function as a giant leaf blower aboard the ship (absurd imagery, but you get the idea).
Sailing, for one.
Doesn't work, because the effect is immobile. It'll give you a little bit of a breeze to get started, but then the boat moves on and leaves that little 20' diameter pocket of wind behind.
People have long debated whether immobile spells on shipboard can use the ship as their frame of reference. It's a situation with ample examples to support each side's view. I'd hope that you agree to disagree, lest the thread be derailed.
The question of sailing is very interesting because if indeed "immobile" is relative to a ship surface, than it becomes a VERY useful spell, and a must-have for any maritime adventure.
Control Winds is a 5th-level, druid-only spell (or cleric with Air domain) meaning that it is almost impossible to find a spell-propelled ship. Alter Winds is a 1st level spell and available to both druids and wizards (and Oracles).
A movable alter winds will make every captain happy to hire a "shipping mage".
Wouldn't it be simpler to have the effect emanate from the caster? If not, there is a niche open for a spell stronger than Alter Winds and not as powerful as Control Winds (or Weather).
our current game is in the mwangu expanse and the dm really likes the weather effects. I really wish someone in our group had this spell. it would make camp a lot easier.
As Sir_Wulf said, I don't want to get into a lengthy argument about spells and frame of reference! I'm just mentioning that this is how a lot of games run. If you're thinking of starting a thread to argue this point, let me just say, "Spelljammer". OK, now can you foresee how the arguments will go? Still want to start a thread? Do ya punk? Do you feel lucky?
In the case of this particular spell, I'd certainly use the interpretation of "stationary" that allows sailing. First, because it makes the spell quite useful but not overpowered.
Second, because I think it's silly that a low level sailing spell would not exist! A large ship costs 30,000 gold and researching a first level spell costs 1,000. I'm sure the first wizard ever to own a ship, or the first king to ever have a navy, certainly would have commissioned at least one low level spell to protect his investments.
Gah, post got eaten by the interwebs. Let me try again.
Some of the uses for the spell proposed above (with the exception of the sailing idea) are really nice and flavorful. However the 'special effects' ideas I would think could be done with a simple Prestidigitation spell. Keeping cool or comfortable is what Endure Elements is for. Realistically a breeze in a desert environment wouldn't help since the cooling effect comes from evaporation of sweat, so you'll be dehydrated faster; in other words, I wouldn't allow this to give a bonus to saves vs. non-lethal damage.
Keeping fog out is a good idea for a dungeon, I'll give you that, though it's still just a 10' radius hole in the fog. I can also see it as something to give false hope in an underground maze ("hey, I feel a breeze, there must be an opening!").
Ordinarily I'd agree with most everyone that a moving ship can act as a frame of reference for an otherwise constant spell effect. However, I think Alter Winds may be an exception to this rule because it's the only spell that I can find that explictly says 'immobile' right in the Area: text. That makes it pretty clear to me that it's meant to be a fixed point in space.
Let me take another tack though. If we were to change this spell so that it could be centered on a touched object or willing creature, it didn't allow a save or SR (since how does one save vs Wind?) and had a casting time of 1 round, would it be good enough to make it a 2nd level spell? Personally, I don't think so. Yet these changes would still make the spell more useful, which means the current spell is a very weak spell for 1st level.
Ah, but endure elements is one spell per person. This is one spell for the party. And the danger is "Heat Danger" not a dehydration danger. The party has plenty of water... they are just trying to avoid cooking in the heat.
The comments from the start of HEAT DANGERS comments that the effects continue until the character gets cooled off. So in the hottest part of the day they try and find a shaded spot, set down their heavy loads, drink lots of water, and enjoy a cool breeze. As far as an RP plan from a group of players that works just fine for me as a DM and they can avoid damage.
Finally, on the immobile portion. You can go many ways on this. The planet is moving, the boat is moving, the solar system is moving. What spot is the spell anchored to? On a large enough ship I would say the deck is fine. (trying to avoid the whole concept of "will a leaf blower push a boat" due to Newton's law of motion.)
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/environment.html#heat-dangers