Hey everyone,
Currently I am GMIng for a group of 5 players which consists of three fighters (melee x2 and bow x1), a rogue (scout/melee) and a druid (without an animal companion), which are all at level 5. The problem I am having right now is that I can't seem to design encounters that over much versatility for the party to deal with.
We are running the Kingmaker campaign and are in the second module, right now the random encounters are melee centric and this is really the groups forté. Even when i add the advanced template to the enemies the AC is far too low (the lowest +attack is +10) and the attack and damage seems to sky rocket which makes it very dangerous for the PC's.
Of course I want to have a sense of danger but the party (and myself) is getting tired of encountering a gang of trolls or a pack of wolves etc.
Suggestions? Should I try adding class levels to orcs?
Here's what I do:
1. Five level 5 PCs yields APL 5. That's my baseline for CR.
2. Encounters for the group range from CR 4 to CR 8 (1200 to 4800 XP for encounter budgeting).
3. In general, encounters are with multiple creatures. For encounters APL +1 and up, I tend to spend about 1/4 to 1/2 the encounter budget on leader types and then fill out the rest with lesser creatures.
4. I also tend to avoid encounters more more than APL +2 except in special circumstances (finale fights, for example).
So, typical encounters I would use for this sort of group could end up looking something like this:
Ravening Wolf Pack
CR 6; XP 2,400
Creatures
* Alpha Male: advanced wolf x1 (CR 2; 600 XP)
* Pack Members: wolves x4 (CR 1 each; 1600 XP total)
* Junior Wolf: young wolf x1 (CR 1/2; 200 XP)
Goblin Stalkers
CR 5; XP 1,600
Creatures
* Leader: goblin commando (CR 1; 400 XP)
* Sub-Leader: goblin cleric 2 (CR 1; 400 XP)
* Goblins: goblin warriors 2 x4 (CR 1/2; 200 XP)
Experiment as needed. :)
Here's what I do:
1. Five level 5 PCs yields APL 5. That's my baseline for CR.
2. Encounters for the group range from CR 4 to CR 8 (1200 to 4800 XP for encounter budgeting).
3. In general, encounters are with multiple creatures. For encounters APL +1 and up, I tend to spend about 1/4 to 1/2 the encounter budget on leader types and then fill out the rest with lesser creatures.
4. I also tend to avoid encounters more more than APL +2 except in special circumstances (finale fights, for example).
So, typical encounters I would use for this sort of group could end up looking something like this:
Ravening Wolf Pack
CR 6; XP 2,400
Creatures
* Alpha Male: advanced wolf x1 (CR 2; 600 XP)
* Pack Members: wolves x4 (CR 1 each; 1600 XP total)
* Junior Wolf: young wolf x1 (CR 1; 200 XP)Goblin Stalkers
CR 5; XP 1,600
Creatures
* Leader: goblin commando (CR 1; 400 XP)
* Sub-Leader: goblin cleric 2 (CR 1; 400 XP)
* Goblins: goblin warriors 2 x4 (CR 1/2; 200 XP)Experiment as needed. :)
Thanks for the suggestions, i think that should help make this session more interesting.
Thanks for the suggestions, i think that should help make this session more interesting.
No problem. Note I made an error on the young wolf's CR. I corrected my first post. I'm also fond of gangs of mooks. For example, hit an APL 5 party from every direction at once with 12 standard orcs (CR 5 for 1,620 XP). Sure, the PCs are likely going to win, but it can still be a hoot.
Thanks for the suggestions, i think that should help make this session more interesting.No problem. Note I made an error on the young wolf's CR. I corrected my first post. I'm also fond of gangs of mooks. For example, hit an APL 5 party from every direction at once with 12 standard orcs (CR 5 for 1,620 XP). Sure, the PCs are likely going to win, but it can still be a hoot.
With sheer numbers I should threaten a critical hit on at least one or two attacks per round..hmm.. This is a good idea.
Now the tricky question comes into play. Does aid another bonus transfer to confirmation of a critical hit?
For example, hit an APL 5 party from every direction at once with 12 standard orcs (CR 5 for 1,620 XP). Sure, the PCs are likely going to win, but it can still be a hoot.
See, I would approach this in a MUCH different fashion. All of the fights you designed would be so easy for a melee centric party that they're almost not worth playing out, IMO. 12 book standard orcs? Ok, that's one round.
Now 20 book standard orcs, with 3-4 4th level barbarian heroes, 4-5 wolves, and a 6th level Witch or Oracle? THATS a fight. I'm in Kingmaker myself as a player right now, though only at 3rd level, and the AP encounters seem super weak. We are an "optimized for fun" party of experienced players, so that does tilt the field in our favor, but CR=APL we tear right through. CR=APL+1-2 is fun, CR=APL+3-4 is pretty challenging. If you have individual critters that are CR=APL-4 or less, you almost can't throw enough of them out there, they're like confetti.
IMO, of course. I really like the new drakes from Bestiary 2 for this sort of thing- they're dragons, so flying, fire breathing engines of death, but manageable for this type of party. A mated pair would be a cool encounter, possibly after one makes off with a party horse or mule.
Yar.
Aid Another[/url]]
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
For the attack roll (I suggest for a Grapple, or a trip and then a grapple. DOG PILE!) for sure, but for the critical confirmation roll... I think so. Here's why:
To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to "confirm" the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made.
(bolded the important part)
I have used this tactic (aid another to trip/grapple) to neutralize even epic level (20+) PCs with hoards of CR 1/4 creatures. Combine them with some higher level/CR leaders, usually with some class levels, and you can end up with some epic fights. As for the number crunching, squeezing creatures suffer a -4 to attacks, but then you can fit 4 medium/small creatures in one square, thus you'll be able to surround a PC with a potential 32 buggers, most gaining a flanking bonus of +2 (or +4 with teamwork feats, negating the squeezing penalty), each giving a +2 aid another bonus to the one that starts the trip &/or grapple, making it very unlikely for him to fail (make sure that one initiating has improved trip/grapple so he doesn't die from simply trying). It's literally a hoard of kobolds swarming over a PC to dog pile onto him.
Smart use of Terrain, cover/concealment, natural hazards, pits and other traps are also great things to use to keep an optimized party on it's toes.
~P
Hey everyone,
Currently I am GMIng for a group of 5 players which consists of three fighters (melee x2 and bow x1), a rogue (scout/melee) and a druid (without an animal companion), which are all at level 5. The problem I am having right now is that I can't seem to design encounters that over much versatility for the party to deal with.
We are running the Kingmaker campaign and are in the second module, right now the random encounters are melee centric and this is really the groups forté. Even when i add the advanced template to the enemies the AC is far too low (the lowest +attack is +10) and the attack and damage seems to sky rocket which makes it very dangerous for the PC's.
Of course I want to have a sense of danger but the party (and myself) is getting tired of encountering a gang of trolls or a pack of wolves etc.
Suggestions? Should I try adding class levels to orcs?
Snow covered path for half movement. Pine trees blocking line of sight. Wind at 10 mph to give a light penalty for arrow fire.
3 vampire satyrs popping up in the night and then retreating the same round (usually a +28-31 to sneak, so they can fire and hide at a +8-11).
If the party is good with conditions like this, add one vampire centaur druid with light steps and similar ability to negate the movement penalties. Arm him with human bane weapons and if you're really sick, add a few levels of ranger.
I found out that i was applying the advanced template wrong so I'm giving it another shot. Plus I'm going to try giving humanoids a little better equipment as I haven't been outfitting them to match the appropriate rewards.
Hopefully this helps to provide an adequate challenge for the party.
Though last session two wyverns did result in the party fighters being occupied equally, next time I think the added threat of young wyverns creeping in on the caster and archer will help to spice things up a bit!
|
I found out that i was applying the advanced template wrong so I'm giving it another shot. Plus I'm going to try giving humanoids a little better equipment as I haven't been outfitting them to match the appropriate rewards.
Hopefully this helps to provide an adequate challenge for the party.
Though last session two wyverns did result in the party fighters being occupied equally, next time I think the added threat of young wyverns creeping in on the caster and archer will help to spice things up a bit!
Bard == Portable Advanced Template
Instantly ramps up the challenge of any encounter. If you make a buffing focused bard he can stay invisible for most of the encounter, or just depart when the PCs finish off his allies.
Add sorceres or cleric levels to monsters - strip them of equipment that can be sold/used and can surprise your PCwith novel tactics/ abilities:)