Not to attack you directly Kenneth, but I think you sum up pretty much everyone else's concerns with my item in your post, so I'll be quoting you.
Any reference to a Cthulu-esque creature, IMHO, has no place in Pathfinder.
Can I direct you to Carrion Hill? It's the second PF module published, and its about as Lovecraftian as things come. It was also an adventure I was thinking of throwing at my party in December, so Pathfinder being OK with horror elements was in my mind at the time. Obviously this is one of those areas where personal taste comes in to play and there is no playing the game wrong, but it isn't like I just decided to try and smash Lovecraft and Pathfinder together out of nowhere.
1) It's not very unique. A magical eye that causes fear. Strikes me as a something taken off a certain monster we used to see.
In retrospect, after you and others pointed this out... I totally see it. At the time, that wasn't my intention or inspiration, but I can see why it might seem a bit beholder inspired. At least it isn't an anti-magic or disintegrate effect cause that would definitely be IP violation territory.
2) It seems very powerful for what it is. If everyone is "shaken for one minute" even if they save, it is extraordinarily powerul. That's more than 1 round/level (at 9th level).
The difference between 9 rounds and 1 minute is... 1 round. I went with 1 minute instead of 7 or 9 rounds because it just seemed cleaner. Either way, the duration is effectively one encounter.
4) It's price looks wrong to me:
A 5th level spell, cast at 9th level= (5x9x2000)
1 charge per day = divide by 5 (5/1=5)
NONE slot= x2
The cost should be: 9x5x2,000= 90,000 / 5 (1/day): 18,000x2=36,000
36,000 gp (18,000 to create)Please correct me if I am wrong here.
I thought price was VERY important.5) It's save DC is wrong:
A 5th level spell requires an attribute of 15, which grants a +2.
10+5+2=17
Of course, that's assuming "lesser planar binding" is somehow producing the effect.
I'm pretty sure I'm correct about that.
And this is really where things did go funky for me. Originally I built the item, including saves and cost, as a CL 7 item with its effect based loosely around the fear spell. Which worked, but didn't seem that exciting. So I changed up the fluff text a little to explain that while it usually appears to be a simple glass ball, on command it reveals itself for what it actually is, all of the time, and that is the trapped eye of a horror from the void.
So I went with lesser planar binding, and subsequent to that, CL 9, in an attempt to reflect this. Sean himself said this was a bad idea... so there you go.
The price and DC from the fear/CL 7 version still felt right to me, so I kept them as is.
NONE slot= x2
Also, this does not apply. The item must be held in hand to be used, and so counts as taking up one of the two 'held item' meta-slots. Also, I know it technically calculates out as a 4th level spell/CL 7 to 10,080, but I rounded up. That said, I totally typoed the cost to create, so I managed to slightly mess up the price anyway.
Whew. Hopefully that at least explains where I was coming from with most of my design decisions :) Also, thanks for the criticism. I can't get better if I don't get to learn what my weaknesses are.
Not to attack you directly Kenneth,
No worries man, I put some pretty tough criticisms in there. They weren't meant to offend, of course, just point out some issues with the item.
Any reference to a Cthulu-esque creature, IMHO, has no place in Pathfinder.Can I direct you to Carrion Hill? It's the second PF module published, and its about as Lovecraftian as things come.
I've heard there are other references to Cthulu-esque monstrous aliens in other Golorian products also. It's my personal opinion that this is a mistake. I just think that it is trying to fit two genre together that do great on their own, but combined is a rather contrived concept. I know I'll get burned for that, but it's my opinion.
From my perspective, it's like putting Jawas, Ewoks, and Wookies into a mythical magical world. They just don't seem to fit together.
That said, my opinion don't matter much to the guys makin' the moo-la producing this stuff :)
1) It's not very unique. A magical eye that causes fear. Strikes me as a something taken off a certain monster we used to see.In retrospect, after you and others pointed this out... I totally see it. At the time, that wasn't my intention or inspiration, but I can see why it might seem a bit beholder inspired. At least it isn't an anti-magic or disintegrate effect cause that would definitely be IP violation territory.
Having gone back over the thread I see you did reply and mentioned that you didn't even consider beholds when creating this. So, it just turns out you repeated something done elsewhere. No fault there, and having it as an original idea just shows that you have good ideas.
2) It seems very powerful for what it is. If everyone is "shaken for one minute" even if they save, it is extraordinarily powerul. That's more than 1 round/level (at 9th level).The difference between 9 rounds and 1 minute is... 1 round. I went with 1 minute instead of 7 or 9 rounds because it just seemed cleaner. Either way, the duration is effectively one encounter.
True, not much of a difference. I think my bigger point, and one I didn't spell out well, was that this was with a SUCCESSFUL save. That is, with a failed one they are frightened for 10 rounds, and even with a successful save they are shaken for that long. That's pretty powerful.
4) It's price looks wrong to me:
The cost should be: 9x5x2,000= 90,000 / 5 (1/day): 18,000x2=36,000
36,000 gp (18,000 to create) Please correct me if I am wrong here.
So I went with lesser planar binding, and subsequent to that, CL 9, in an attempt to reflect this. Sean himself said this was a bad idea... so there you go.
The price and DC from the fear/CL 7 version still felt right to me, so I kept them as is.
Got ya. If the prices was from the Fear effect, that makes sense. The Lesser Planar Binding threw me.
Price is really difficult in this competition. Personally I think they put too much emphasis on it, because their system is dependent heavily on your personal opinion. That said, they did make a big deal out of it and I'm surprised they didn't cite you on this at least.
NONE slot= x2Also, this does not apply. The item must be held in hand to be used, and so counts as taking up one of the two 'held item' meta-slots. Also, I know it technically calculates out as a 4th level spell/CL 7 to 10,080, but I rounded up. That said, I totally typoed the cost to create, so I managed to slightly mess up the price anyway.
Really? I don't recall seeing 'held-item' meta-slots. Dang! I was thinking there should be something like that too. I'll have to go dig around and find that rule. I'm glad my item didn't require that :P
Good to know for future reference. Thanks :)
Whew. Hopefully that at least explains where I was coming from with most of my design decisions :) Also, thanks for the criticism. I can't get better if I don't get to learn what my weaknesses are.
Thank you Ethan. You took the criticism like a professional, showed where your thoughts were directed from, and explained yourself well. I had actually considered just posting something simpler like "Good item, even if I don't agree with some of the mechanics." But, then I thought, "He deserves to be told what were some of the errors made, if he did, and I shouldn't just love the item because it was the judge's choice."
After getting your side of it I think they made a good choice. Your thoughts are clear, well-researched, and professional. I think you'll do well in the next round.
Congrats!
Ken
Okay, I'm glad I read this during the daytime rather than before bed ::shiver:: Nasty toy, definitely could see this being one of those items players love to hate and want to destroy just for the squick factor alone. And in the hands of a villain? They'd hate me! Intriguing toy.