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If something can be simultaneously hot and frozen then those words have no meaning...If something is simultaneously holy and not-holy, then those words have no meaning. It disregards a fundamental principle of logic.(...) But frost/fire shouldn't be put in the same category as holy/unholy and axiomatic/anarchic, which are logical contradictions.Personaly, I have no problem seeing an Abadarian (LN deity) Holy-Unholy-Axiomatic Crossbow built against all "imbalanced and/or chaotic beings" by an extremist.There, it's hot, and frozen solid :P
As to the weapon itself, I guess you could call it Equinox
Touche.
A piece of steel heated to 200 degrees isn't likely to be that nasty, it only starts to turn yellow around 400 degrees...
Which is about what I'm thinking of when people talk about flaming swords, a chunk of blade so hot it glows and ignites objects it's exposed to and sears flesh.
hehe...
Flaming sword... makes me just think of a normal sword with flames on it (( kind of like the flaming swords they used in The Scorpion King)).
Frost/Flame... Normal sword with blade that does frost damage, while covered in flames for head damage.
hehe...
Flaming sword... makes me just think of a normal sword with flames on it (( kind of like the flaming swords they used in The Scorpion King)).
Frost/Flame... Normal sword with blade that does frost damage, while covered in flames for head damage.
Wrong property, that would be vorpal. :)
The problem you run into there is that 'earth' and 'air' are implausible damage types. What is 'earth' damage? Is it just bludgeoning damage propelled by magic? There are already rules for that. If it's not, then what makes it differ? Is there something special and mystical about 'earth' that makes it impossible to imagine the effects of when it hits someone?Why do all the elemental forces need to have some direct damage type associated with them? That is a construct of the D&D world that doesn't exist anywhere else in mythology or fiction.
Besides which, you can simulate that. An earth blade could have jagged crystals that grow out of it when activated, slicing and rending. An air blade could have a constant whirlwind around it's length, the wind slicing things that came into contact with it (like leaves).
Besides which, you can simulate that. An earth blade could have jagged crystals that grow out of it when activated, slicing and rending. An air blade could have a constant whirlwind around it's length, the wind slicing things that came into contact with it (like leaves).
Alright, so air and earth do physical damage (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) while fire and water do energy? (fire, cold, acid, electricity). That does create a certain interesting effect.
(...) Someone being shoot with a flamethrower on one side, while being sprad with liquid nitrogen on the other (...)
I've actually seen an alloyed steel part exposed to very high (750C base) and very low tempreature (liquid nitrogen spray).
It was great to see it literaly shread itself apart in chips and chunks without the application of any physical effort. There was the combination of expension and retraction along the base volume and some forms of hyper-oxydation that happened.
As for the Holy/Unholy weapon or (as mentionne by mdt) Evilbane/Goodbane) can I say Paramender as a concept?
For the record I'm in the No camp. Frost and Fire... nope.
Besides which, you can simulate that. An earth blade could have jagged crystals that grow out of it when activated, slicing and rending. An air blade could have a constant whirlwind around it's length, the wind slicing things that came into contact with it (like leaves).Alright, so air and earth do physical damage (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) while fire and water do energy? (fire, cold, acid, electricity). That does create a certain interesting effect.
Yep, does have a nice symmetry doesn't it. And, you can still have creatures vulnerable to certain elemental effects.
I would say that the elements have an aura of their element type. A normal steel sword is from earth, but it's been through fire, air and water in forging. So it's lost a lot of it's link to the earth.
Using the sub-elements I was talking about earlier, a Metal enhancement would probably not increase it's damage, but increase it's hardness and penetration (instead of adding +1d6, Metal element would make the weapon harder (hardness 20), basically allowing it to act like Adamantine).
An earth enhancement would add +1d6 Earth element damage, of type slashing (jagged shards of crystal).
A wind enhancement would add +1d6 Wind element damage, of type slashing (whirling wind around the blade). Sonics would add +1d6 Sonic damage, of type bludgeoning.
Fire +1d6, energy. Lightning +1d6, energy. Light +1d6, energy.
Water +1d6, energy. Cold +1d6, energy. Acid +1d6, energy.
DR would have some bonus affects against earth/wind (in that would affect them), and energy resistance would only affect fire/water.
Hmm, have to think on this, beginning to like it. On the other hand, could also go with the 'aura of element' being what does the damage, in which case it would all be energy, the manifestations would just be the manifestations of the auras, in which case it's all energy, but that energy is on the astral plane, and the weapons are doing damage both physical and to the spirit of the creature too. Either works.
For the record I'm in the No camp. Frost and Fire... nope.But you're okay with faeries and ghosts, and Druids changing into animals and Wizards flying around shooting lightning bolts?
We can make flaming ice in this world, but in magic fantasy land it's inconceivable...
This is called "Argumentum ad Fireballum" -- if we accept the existence of magic, we lose the right to disallow anything else.
Sorry, but we can still say things are contradictory on either internal or thematic grounds. An argument that Frost and Fire enchantments can't coexist, or at least can't be active at the same time, is still a reasonable argument even given the existence of magic.I'd allow it though.
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For the record I'm in the No camp. Frost and Fire... nope.But you're okay with faeries and ghosts, and Druids changing into animals and Wizards flying around shooting lightning bolts?
We can make flaming ice in this world, but in magic fantasy land it's inconceivable...
This is called "Argumentum ad Fireballum" -- if we accept the existence of magic, we lose the right to disallow anything else.
Sorry, but we can still say things are contradictory on either internal or thematic grounds. An argument that Frost and Fire enchantments can't coexist, or at least can't be active at the same time, is still a reasonable argument even given the existence of magic.
I'd allow it though.
If someone doesn't allow frost-fire because they don't allow any elemental damage to stack, then I don't have a problem with that. But if they are saying no to frost-fire because it blows their mind, then I have to wonder at that considering everything else that goes on within the game.
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Using the sub-elements I was talking about earlier, a Metal enhancement would probably not increase it's damage, but increase it's hardness and penetration (instead of adding +1d6, Metal element would make the weapon harder (hardness 20), basically allowing it to act like Adamantine).
An earth enhancement would add +1d6 Earth element damage, of type slashing (jagged shards of crystal).
A wind enhancement would add +1d6 Wind element damage, of type slashing (whirling wind around the blade). Sonics would add +1d6 Sonic damage, of type bludgeoning.
See I'd be more inclined to ditch elemental bonus damage for wind and earth entirely.
Swords with an earth enhancement would grant a bonus to the wielders strength as long as they are using the sword. The +2 earth enhancement would damage as if it were more massive than it actually is, perhaps simply damage based on the next size.
The air enhancement would grant a dodge bonus to AC and either a blur effect or haste.
Steel acting as adamantine is ok... but it needs a bit more than that.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with flaming/frost weapons or holy/unholy weapons, either mechanically or conceptually.
Those who say no to such things are doing little more than limiting creativity and "out of the box thinking" in their games.
Using the sub-elements I was talking about earlier, a Metal enhancement would probably not increase it's damage, but increase it's hardness and penetration (instead of adding +1d6, Metal element would make the weapon harder (hardness 20), basically allowing it to act like Adamantine).
An earth enhancement would add +1d6 Earth element damage, of type slashing (jagged shards of crystal).
A wind enhancement would add +1d6 Wind element damage, of type slashing (whirling wind around the blade). Sonics would add +1d6 Sonic damage, of type bludgeoning.
See I'd be more inclined to ditch elemental bonus damage for wind and earth entirely.
Swords with an earth enhancement would grant a bonus to the wielders strength as long as they are using the sword. The +2 earth enhancement would damage as if it were more massive than it actually is, perhaps simply damage based on the next size.
The air enhancement would grant a dodge bonus to AC and either a blur effect or haste.
Steel acting as adamantine is ok... but it needs a bit more than that.
Interesting idea. Perhaps, instead though, some of the existing bonuses could be repurposed. Haste could be 'Wind', speeding you up. Stone could just be a straight +1d6 boost to the weapon's existing damage (as you said, making it hit harder).
As to steel needing to be more, well, let's see. What if we renamed Keen as Metal, and instead of saying only on slashing weapons, only metal weapons?
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I see absolutely nothing wrong with flaming/frost weapons or holy/unholy weapons, either mechanically or conceptually.
Those who say no to such things are doing little more than limiting creativity and "out of the box thinking" in their games.
You can have a sword that works, mechanically, like a holy-unholy sword but you might as well call it a Purple Monkey Dishwasher sword, because Holy Unholy is literally nonsense.
But just rename the holy and unholy properties (as mdt suggested upthread) and get rid of the concept of holy, and there is no problem with your sword.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with flaming/frost weapons or holy/unholy weapons, either mechanically or conceptually.
Those who say no to such things are doing little more than limiting creativity and "out of the box thinking" in their games.
You can have a sword that works, mechanically, like a holy-unholy sword but you might as well call it a Purple Monkey Dishwasher sword, because Holy Unholy is literally nonsense.
But just rename the holy and unholy properties (as mdt suggested upthread) and get rid of the concept of holy, and there is no problem with your sword.
While that is an Idea, (one i do Not Support), the problem with a Purple Monkey or Dishwasher sword is that a GM would then rule that id does not overcome Damage Reduction of Good or Evil Creatures.
There is a reason Holy/Unholy weapon cost +2 weapon bonuses.
All you'd have to do is put in that a Purple Monkey Dishwasher sword is treated as good aligned for purposes of overcoming damage reduction. It's the same line that's already in the descriptions of holy and unholy, so changing their names does nothing.
Just change Unholy to Profane. Done and done.
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Interesting idea. Perhaps, instead though, some of the existing bonuses could be repurposed. Haste could be 'Wind', speeding you up. Stone could just be a straight +1d6 boost to the weapon's existing damage (as you said, making it hit harder).
As to steel needing to be more, well, let's see. What if we renamed Keen as Metal, and instead of saying only on slashing weapons, only metal weapons?
I could get onboard with all of this.
I could get onboard with all of this.Interesting idea. Perhaps, instead though, some of the existing bonuses could be repurposed. Haste could be 'Wind', speeding you up. Stone could just be a straight +1d6 boost to the weapon's existing damage (as you said, making it hit harder).
As to steel needing to be more, well, let's see. What if we renamed Keen as Metal, and instead of saying only on slashing weapons, only metal weapons?
Unfortunately, I think it's all going to be houseruling, or PF 2.0 at best.
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Unfortunately, I think it's all going to be houseruling, or PF 2.0 at best.I could get onboard with all of this.Interesting idea. Perhaps, instead though, some of the existing bonuses could be repurposed. Haste could be 'Wind', speeding you up. Stone could just be a straight +1d6 boost to the weapon's existing damage (as you said, making it hit harder).
As to steel needing to be more, well, let's see. What if we renamed Keen as Metal, and instead of saying only on slashing weapons, only metal weapons?
More likely a supplement by a third party. PF 2.0 is still a long ways off.
Looking at the elemental stuff in the APG I find it unlikely Paizo is changing course on this anytime soon.
So back on topic.
So this does mean i can have a +1 Flame/Frost/Acid/Sonic/Lighting/Holy Great Sword (+8 weapon bonus total = 128,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 fire + 1d6 frost + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 sonic + 1d6 lightning + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 9d6 Damage per strike.
And this would be legal by RAW ?
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So back on topic.
So this does mean i can have a +1 Flame/Frost/Acid/Sonic/Lighting/Holy Great Sword (+8 weapon bonus total = 128,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 fire + 1d6 frost + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 sonic + 1d6 lightning + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 9d6 Damage per strike.
And this would be legal by RAW ?
I don't believe that acidic and sonic are available by the core rules, and any of the other books I have seen them in(from 3.5 anyway) only had them give a 1d4 damage bonus because of the unusual damage types.
Also, in the core rules a weapons bonus can only go up to +5, beyond that it would be considered epic and there aren't rules for that yet.
Theoretically though, I don't believe there is any RAW issue with any combination of elemental types on the same weapon. As mentioned above though, it can be vetoed by some DMs.
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Theoretically though, I don't believe there is any RAW issue with any combination of elemental types on the same weapon. As mentioned above though, it can be vetoed by some DMs.
Pretty mulch this.
I think the only restrictions on enhancements are based on weapon types, for example returning has to be on a weapon you can throw.
So back on topic.
So this does mean i can have a +1 Flame/Frost/Acid/Sonic/Lighting/Holy Great Sword (+8 weapon bonus total = 128,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 fire + 1d6 frost + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 sonic + 1d6 lightning + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 9d6 Damage per strike.
And this would be legal by RAW ?
I don't believe that acidic and sonic are available by the core rules, and any of the other books I have seen them in(from 3.5 anyway) only had them give a 1d4 damage bonus because of the unusual damage types.
Also, in the core rules a weapons bonus can only go up to +5, beyond that it would be considered epic and there aren't rules for that yet.
Max "Enchantment bonus is +5", Max bonuse on weapon is +10. PF phb page 468 Table 15-8:Weapons.
On well change it to + 1 Flaming/Frost/Shock/Holy Great Sword (+6 weapon bonus total = 72,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 flame + 1d6 frost +1d6 shock + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 7d6 Damage per Strike...... At least until they add some more +1 Elemental Special Ability to the rules :)
So would this be legal by RAW ??
So back on topic.
So this does mean i can have a +1 Flame/Frost/Acid/Sonic/Lighting/Holy Great Sword (+8 weapon bonus total = 128,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 fire + 1d6 frost + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 sonic + 1d6 lightning + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 9d6 Damage per strike.
And this would be legal by RAW ?
I don't believe that acidic and sonic are available by the core rules, and any of the other books I have seen them in(from 3.5 anyway) only had them give a 1d4 damage bonus because of the unusual damage types.
Also, in the core rules a weapons bonus can only go up to +5, beyond that it would be considered epic and there aren't rules for that yet.
Max "Enchantment bonus is +5", Max bonuse on weapon is +10. PF phb page 468 Table 15-8:Weapons.
On well change it to + 1 Flaming/Frost/Shock/Holy Great Sword (+6 weapon bonus total = 72,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 flame + 1d6 frost +1d6 shock + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 7d6 Damage per Strike...... At least until they add some more +1 Elemental Special Ability to the rules :)
So would this be legal by RAW ??
Yep.
And you missed Corrosive, +1. APG
Oh forgot to check APG....
Ya cool, they did add Acid to the list, Yaaa
So now we are just missing: Sonic. Why is that always the last to show up.
Come on Sonic, papa needs a new Vibro blade.
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I recall that bonuses like Flaming/Frost/Shock give a small DPR advantage over a straight +1 enhancement. Though of course they don't help against DR/element creatures so it balances out. There is of course a benefit to +3/4/5 enhancement weapons in overcoming certain types of DR. And of course higher enhancement bonuses stop your sword being sundered/broken as easily.
Also remember the +10 maximum is capped to include any character or other item abilities that boost the swords plusses.
Weapons can have BOTH Frost and Fire, i just don't understand how MAGIC would do that.
Well that does it for my current campaign i'm house ruling that magic doesn't work since it doesn't follow real life physics/science or logic. I mean people flying, throwing bolts of lightning, opening gates to other planes of existence, healing wounds and disease with a prayer, etc. No way. Not on my watch in my fantasy game of Pathfinder.
Some of my GMs have ruled that activating one of those abilities turns off the others.
So you can have a +1 flaming frost longsword, but whenever you turn on flaming it turns off frost and vice versa.
This is essentially the same as the "energy aura" weapon in one of the old equipment guides where you pay a +2 bonus to get to choose which energy type your +1d6 is each time you use it.
Anyone else think of Chrono Trigger. Antipode was such an awesome spell.
Some of my GMs have ruled that activating one of those abilities turns off the others.
So you can have a +1 flaming frost longsword, but whenever you turn on flaming it turns off frost and vice versa.
This is essentially the same as the "energy aura" weapon in one of the old equipment guides where you pay a +2 bonus to get to choose which energy type your +1d6 is each time you use it.
Just give each ability the same command word so they all come on at once.
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So back on topic.
So this does mean i can have a +1 Flame/Frost/Acid/Sonic/Lighting/Holy Great Sword (+8 weapon bonus total = 128,000 gold)... for 2d6 sword + 1d6 fire + 1d6 frost + 1d6 Acid + 1d6 sonic + 1d6 lightning + 2d6 vs evil for a total of 9d6 Damage per strike.
And this would be legal by RAW ?
a +1 flaming ,frost, shock, thundering ,brilliant energy, corrosive, Transformative greatsword. (+1 enchanment, +9 extras)
On a hit would have a base damage of:
2d6 (greatsword) + 1d6 (fire) + 1d6 (cold) + 1d6 (electricity) + 1d8 (sonic) + 1d6 (acid) + 1 and ignore all non living matter. Also, changes to any two handed melee weapon as needed.
Fun was had by all!
I am necromancing this for my two coppers worth -
I allow flaming and frost effects on the same weapons in my game, referring to such weapons OOC as "microwave burrito" weapons.
Seriously, a microwaved burrito usually turns out to be way too hot on the edges and yet still has an ice frozen core. It exists, and it isn't even magic!
Heat and cold are just two usually incompatible physical propertiesNo they are not, heat and cold are just relative measures of one physical property called temperature.
Sure, but no molecule can have two simultaneous temperatures...
Acid can be hot or cold, and conductive or not, but cannot be both wholly hot and wholly cold at the same time. If it's partially hot and partially cold, then one would presume it also only does tbose damage types partially.
We don't houserule this at our table afaik, but I do see the logic in those that so.