We have some really cool classes now. These new classes were accompanied with a TON of variants for the core classes. So the first thing that comes to my mind, is what variants could we expect to see of these new classes.
So I was thinking about discussing here possible variants of these new APG classes. Please share your thoughts.
The first one that came to my mind was a small change to the Inquisitor. What if the class ran on charisma rather than wisdom? Would that be weaker and require some additional bonus to balance?
An Oracle that uses the druid spell list and is limited to the nature and elemental mysteries.
A more radical one would be a summoner that wouldn't get an Eidolon at all, but would rather get the Aspect ability at level one which would progress all the way up to 20th level. Sort of similar to the 3.0 Geomancer (yuck), but actually good.
For Inquisitor:
Witchhunter: Anti-Magic Specialist (maybe with an "Spellblock for x round" judgment, instead of teamwork feats Disruptive and Spellbreaker Feat)
Monsterhunter: More Combat focused (NO Full BAB !!!! but some fighter/oracle of battle feature, switching teamwork vs combat feats, maybe counting as fighter for feats)
Investigator: Focused at sozial (mixed with a little bit Bard)
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I dunno.
All of the APG classes are EXTREMELY customizable in and of themselves (I just built an Inquisitor that fights like a monk >_>... and it's AWESOME...). I don't know that many of them need variants.
But, if this is purely for fun ...
I'd like to see an Alchemist that focuses more on brewing potions. Perhaps one that gets Infusion as a bonus Discovery, and maybe can, later on, apply three effects into a single potion.
Inquisitor... I can't possibly imagine any changes that could be made... Well, actually, I think I'd like an inquisitor that sacrifices either Bane or the Teamwork feats for low sneak attack progression (say, 6d6 or 7d6 maximum... MAYBE)
Oracle... Evil/Good Mysteries, and perhaps some more like the cleric domains... Rage/Destruction, etc.
Cavaliers... Maybe an unmounted option? I know it sounds weird, but maybe something that expands their companion availability and grants bonuses based on companion type? So... a Cavalier with a Cat (Small) companion grants allies flanking bonuses while it flanks with them? I dunno. Could be too much.
Summoner... Maybe something that does away with the eidolon, but allows the summoner to spend a smaller number of evolution points on the Summon Monster "x" special ability? So you can summon Earth Elementals that do extra damage, have higher AC, etc.
That leaves only Witches... How about something similar to Warlocks? Get rid of spellcasting and introduce infusions? That way they have a list of Hexes as well as infusions to use, making them more of a consistent caster, especially at low levels.
For Inquisitor:
Witchhunter: Anti-Magic Specialist (maybe with an "Spellblock for x round" judgment, instead of teamwork feats Disruptive and Spellbreaker Feat)
Monsterhunter: More Combat focused (NO Full BAB !!!! but some fighter/oracle of battle feature, switching teamwork vs combat feats, maybe counting as fighter for feats)
Investigator: Focused at sozial (mixed with a little bit Bard)
+ EFFING 1
I especially like the witch hunter. Maybe let them dip for disruptive, spellbreaker, and teleport tactician as well.
I agree with no Full BAB.
the investigator is already an archetype... but i catch the drift.
Alchemist:
- Gadget Punk (get rid of spells for talent like thinks called tech support)
- Chemistry Master (give the mutagen some more side effects or variants, give them the ability to make bio-warefare poison like things or diseases, drop bombs, throw anything, and bomb discoveries)
- Bomb caster (Drop mutagens, give them the ability to deliver de buff spells via bombs along with discoveries for bombs, increase bomb range)
Witch:
Diviner (give them a cauldron for scrying, give them divinitation schools at a bonus either with domain or wizard school, drop hexes)
White Witch (Give them all "good" spells, make their hexes only beneficial hexes and call them blessings, you can kinda do this already though)
Winter Witch (cold varient caster)
Wicked Witch (higher levels throw in a broom stick, lose hex at X level)
Summoner:
mdt did a great job with is
http://www.pathfinderdb.com/character-options/class-options/949-summoner-op tions-summoners-unleashed
hope he doesnt mind
Cavalier:
Better
Warlord (ground fighter, better teamwork feats, bonuses to friends for tactician)
Specialist (grants benefits for particular skills in given situations, deliver better party cohesions through combining skills, aid another as Immediate action)
Oracle...
doesnt need a damn thing.
Oracle...
doesnt need a damn thing.
People could make that argument with any class.
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We have some really cool classes now. These new classes were accompanied with a TON of variants for the core classes. So the first thing that comes to my mind, is what variants could we expect to see of these new classes.
I enjoy the thread and the neat ideas but I doubt the new classes will get the variant options that the core classes did. Almost all of the APG classes were created with some sort of "built-in" variant.
Keep in mind, I'm not terribly well versed in the APG and just got my own copy the other day, but look at the options and choices each has.
Alchemist - Don't know the alchemist that well at all so I'll just skip them.
Cavalier - The Cavalier is built on it's Code (don't remember if thats what its called or not) but this is the most obvious built-in variant to me. New class skills, new options, changes class features.
Inquisitor - The different choices of judgments makes most Inquisitors different from one another.
Oracle - Can't remember what their option is called but they have a choice at character creation that greatly affects their abilities and class features.
Summoner - The Eidolon ensures that no two are alike.
Witch - Choice of patron spell list is their big customization.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the APG classes were meant to not need variant options.
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I'd like to see;
An archetype for the Alchemist that focuses on the Mutagen, and has a more limited access to bombs and extracts. Similarly, archetypes that go the other way, sacrificing the ability to use the Mutagen at all for a smallish increase in their bomb-throwing or whatever.
Archetypes for the Summoner that call up constructs or undead or elemental 'Eidolons,' with appropriate 'base forms' (construction materials, incorporeal undead, made of fire, etc) and Evolutions, and perhaps even variant spell lists, depending on the focus, with the deathcaller having a smattering of necromancy spells replacing the conjuration focus, the mastermaker using transmutation instead of conjuration, and the elementalist trending towards evocation.
A Summoner archetype that loses the Summon Monster SLA, in exchange for a more permanant and hardy Eidolon, that doesn't vanish if he closes his eyes for a second, or walks off to go to the bathroom.
A Summoner archetype that goes the other direction and dumps the Eidolon completely for an improved Summon Monster SLA (such as the ability to use it more than once per combat), gaining the ability to apply Evolution points to Summoned Monsters.
An archetype for the Witch that sacrifices spellcasting (perhaps dropping it down to Bard or Inquisitor levels), for increased Hex utility and power. I love slinging Hexes, and find that the spellcasting actually detracts from my fun, playing a Witch.
Summoner:mdt did a great job with is
http://www.pathfinderdb.com/character-options/class-options/949-summoner-op tions-summoners-unleashedhope he doesnt mind
LOL, no, I don't mind. I've got another one I submitted to the database that should go up in the next week or so. It's a rewrite of the base class to turn it into EITHER an eidelon specific build, or a Summon Monster build specializing in the SLA. I'd be interested in your thoughts when it goes up.
Oracle...doesnt need a damn thing.
Not sure I'd agree with this. I'd like a few alternate class options that give them some additional things, like maybe an Animal Companion in exchange for losing domains for example?
I put this into the Ultimate Combat thread too:
A Cavalier Archetype called Marshal, Warlord or something similar.
Remove the mount (I love the mounted option, but this should be different) and add 4-6 auras similar to the ones of the Marshal or the Dragon Shaman in Miniature handbook or Player Handbook 2.
These auras could be a static bonus, and/or a bonus based on the Intelligence, Charisma or even Wisdom modifier of the Cavalier, representing tactical supremacy, inspiring presence or clever strategies.
Aura effects should fit thematically with the Stats (i.e. a bonus vs fear based on the inspiring charisma, a bonus to maneuvers on wis, and a move X squares based on int).
A Summoner archetype that loses the Summon Monster SLA, in exchange for a more permanant and hardy Eidolon, that doesn't vanish if he closes his eyes for a second, or walks off to go to the bathroom.A Summoner archetype that goes the other direction and dumps the Eidolon completely for an improved Summon Monster SLA (such as the ability to use it more than once per combat), gaining the ability to apply Evolution points to Summoned Monsters.
LOL,
I worked up something like that. Lemme dig it up and I'll post it in a separate thread. It should be on PathfinderDB soon.
