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Someone on another thread pointed out that Blink also means you have a 20% miss chance when you cast.
This had not occurred to me. I fully admit to not having read the spell fully as it hasn't really come up in game from players. But it is a DM slip I have apparently made against them.
What is the most overlooked spell or feat limitation you have encountered.
The Monkey Grip feat from 3.X.
It doesn't let you use a two-handed weapon in one hand, it only lets you use weapons of a superior size category.
To bad for the dual wielding greatswords and glaive + tower shield lovers. :P
Edit : However, you can dual wield large longswords for the same effect.
Message. Most people I've gamed with use it like it is telepathy, (without any perception checks from people close enough to hear or see).
The Monkey Grip feat from 3.X.
It doesn't let you use a two-handed weapon in one hand, it only lets you use weapons of a superior size category.
To bad for the dual wielding greatswords and glaive + tower shield lovers. :P
I've seen people get around this with 2 large-sized long swords.
Same damage, falls within the feat. Sorta...
I've seen people get around this with 2 large-sized long swords.
Same damage, falls within the feat. Sorta...
However, magical large longswords are not as easy to find than magical greatswords. :)
Entangle. Many players assume it could be cast in a barren desert and plants would just spring up from nowhere to grab things.
Entangle. Many players assume it could be cast in a barren desert and plants would just spring up from nowhere to grab things.
Same thing about Web, you need at least to opposites walls to support the web. This is often overlooked by some GMs or players. :)
However, magical large longswords are not as easy to find than magical greatswords. :)I've seen people get around this with 2 large-sized long swords.
Same damage, falls within the feat. Sorta...
Sadly, they were very easy to find in the campaign I was in.
I would had every spells with short range to the thread. Hold Person, Scorching Ray, Mage Hand, ect. My PCs always try to cast them from more than 100 feet away. (;
Disintegrate.
Everyone uses it as direct damage because of OMG THE DEE SISXEXS but nobody really uses it for what it's amazing at-- obliterating dangerous terrain features or punching holes in walls.
Enlarge person... It's a full round casting like a summon spell, and I only recently found that out...
Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.
Actually it can do that. You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.
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Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.Actually it can do that. You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.
Just looking at your avatars... are you guys related?
* Sleep. The 1 round casting time is a necessary balancer. (1 round casting is quite often overlooked, I think - there's Enlarge Person, as mentioned above, and Reduce Person and Hypnotism too, but I'd say Sleep's the one to watch out for)
* Protection from Evil: the assumption that it fends off all summoned creatures (it only hedges out evil ones, and in fact has no effect except against evil summonses and evil-originating mind-control and attacks). This one's generally a GM error.
* Light: you can only have one Light on the go. Throwing multiple Light stones down dark corridors/laying them around campsites are common misuses.
* Silent Image and the Image line: GMs being too heavy-handed with ease of saves (interaction vs perception).
* Ghost Sound and Ventriloquism: unlike the visual line, these state that you do get saves when you perceive the sounds. Which sucks and is inconsistant, but there it is. It sucks less for Ventriloquism, of course.
* Summon Swarm: misused simply because the rules for swarms are a bit unclear. There's the fact that swarms use the universal distraction rule, and the distraction special attack (former = concentration checks, latter nausea), the slightly finickety rules on weapon damage immunity and area effect/splash weapon vulnerability (what damage does alchemist's fire do to a spider swarm? 2 points?), the timing of swarm damage and lack of AoO (you can walk through a swarm without taking damage) etc.
Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.Actually it can do that. You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.
He was implying you cant do all of that AND not break concentration to detect magic.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Just looking at your avatars... are you guys related?Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.Actually it can do that. You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.
Haha, nope, but both our avatars were drawn by my good buddy Ashton Sperry.
Obligatory product placement Here.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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He was implying you cant do all of that AND not break concentration to detect magic.Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.Actually it can do that. You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.
You're probably right, I read his post kind of funny.
But still, worth pointing out, as the way those spells work did change from 3.5 so folks new to PF may have missed it.
Magic Jar and Reincarnate.
Nobody seems to know whether ongoing spell effects follow you into your new body, or if they remain with your old body (in the case of magic jar); or how, exactly, you are supposed to rebuild your character when you get reincarnated as a different race (in the case of reincarnate). Do you suddenly gain racial hit dice for becoming a gnoll? Or lose your human bonus feat and skill for no longer being human?
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* Summon Swarm: misused simply because the rules for swarms are a bit unclear. There's the fact that swarms use the universal distraction rule, and the distraction special attack (former = concentration checks, latter nausea), the slightly finickety rules on weapon damage immunity and area effect/splash weapon vulnerability (what damage does alchemist's fire do to a spider swarm? 2 points?), the timing of swarm damage and lack of AoO (you can walk through a swarm without taking damage) etc.
Walking through a swarm for no damage never made a lick of sense, that's true.
Swarms have always been a pain, my beef with them is the decision to create them as being 2x2-square creatures by default, then make exceptions for them being able to deform that shape.
When you have more than one swarm, it becomes a bookeeping nightmare (is that square part of this swarm, or that swarm?
Is that swarm the one I injured earlier?
How does burning these beetles here, cause a domino effect that wipes out the beetles 3 squares away, round the corner and out of my line of sight, but have totally no effect on these beetles in the adjacent square?
If I cast Burning Hands and catch 3 squares from the same swarm, I can only kill one swarm, but if I catch squares from 3 different swarms, I can kill 3 swarms simultaneously? Huh?)
Just reduce their hp and make swarms one square, already!
Ha Snorter - I've never thought of it like that :) It could require quite a lot of suspension of disbelief to have a battle with several large swarms :)
...my Kingmaker group only recently found out that sleep had 1 round casting time, which can be _quite_ important in a low-level battle...
Detect Magic (and some other detection spells). I believe that many players and DMs forget that it can penetrate barriers. Depending on the thickness and composition of walls, it's entirely possible to detect all of the magical auras in an entire building; even those several floors/rooms away. It's often an easy way to discern the approximate location of BBEGs and treasure hordes since they usually have the largest concentration of magic items and active spells clustered close together.
Summon Monster -- On several occasions, I've seen PCs (including mine...) summoning creatures to teleport or go ethereal, without realising that's forbidden in the spell description.
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Since features came up, everyone seems to complain it is to easy to sunder not realizing it is a Combat Maneuver and is against CMD, not 10.
Yes, Monkey Grip and sunder are the most misused spells. Hands down. ;-)
I agree that the image line of spells are some of the most easily misunderstood (from my experience), as "interacting" is too loosely interpreted (or not accurately described enough to be id10t proof? Arguing semantics is my least favorite thing to do at the gaming table...) and often hand-waived.
I think the most misused spell/spell-like ability is detect evil, many players tend not to read the detect (alignment) aura strength descriptions and think that every NPC they meet who is evil must be able to be detected by this spell, and then they have a hissy-cow when the 3rd-level CE Cleric of Calistria does all sorts of evil nasty stuff to them when they had no evil aura, or they can't tell if anyone in a bar is evil (no, 5th level evil Commoners and Experts are not going to be very common in my games when I am GMing).
Also, the chart itself is messed up, because is 5th level the minimum HD for an aligned creature (non-undead/non-outsider/non-Cleric/non-Paladin/regular Joe) to have a Faint aura, or is 6th? Why would "None" say 5 or lower HD and then "Faint" have 5-10 HD when the rest of the chart is logically sound? You think they would have fixed that by now.
BTW, never underestimate the power of a hissy-cow.
You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.
Quite right. I've no idea why someone playing a sorcerer would ever bother learning identify. Similarly, the effects of Read Magic to discern the content of scrolls is largely superfluous for characters with decent Spellcraft skill bonuses.
You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.Quite right. I've no idea why someone playing a sorcerer would ever bother learning identify. Similarly, the effects of Read Magic to discern the content of scrolls is largely superfluous for characters with decent Spellcraft skill bonuses.
But the rogue with a collection of scrolls and the minor magic talent likes it.
I find that Charm Person is constantly misused. We've a DM who charms on a regular basis and he'll never call for Cha checks to be made vs commands to do something out of our characters' nature.
"Well now that you are friends with the flamebrother salamander you will hug his elder fire elemental friend, because it wouldn't be against your nature be nice to your friend's friends."
It is always against my nature to hug fire, no matter the circumstances.
Hence I play high will save classes or cast protection/magic circle on a regular basis in his games.
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* Silent Image and the Image line: GMs being too heavy-handed with ease of saves (interaction vs perception).
My players tend to think I'm too hard on when you've "interacted" with an illusion, which I think is funny since the party wizard is an illusionist. They only started thinking that way after they encountered another illusionist.
Summon Monster -- On several occasions, I've seen PCs (including mine...) summoning creatures to teleport or go ethereal, without realizing that's forbidden in the spell description.
I've done this. My witch, Hama, was trapped in a desert dying of thirst. In her resulting delirium she came up with a crazy scheme to summon a hound archon, put herself into her own bag of holding, and have the hound archon teleport her to her home town. She then went on an adventure for two days (real time) in her home town before we realized that her trick wouldn't have worked and that she was still stuck in the desert (it was all just a glorious, hopeful dream).
Hama never did escape that desert as far as anyone is aware.
In my case, it was a druid summoning a jann in order to attack a ghost on the Ethereal plane. It worked great...until I realised much later that it's not possible.
He was implying you cant do all of that AND not break concentration to detect magic.Detect magic... many players seem to think that they can help disarm a trap, have a conversation, identify and divvy up magic items, sneak up to a group of their enemies without being seen or hear, eavesdrop, and search their memories for things that they may have heard about a subject before... all without it breaking their concentration.Actually it can do that. You use a combination of detect magic and the Spellcraft skill to identify items. The spell identify works as detect magic and gives you a +10 to the skill check.You're probably right, I read his post kind of funny.
But still, worth pointing out, as the way those spells work did change from 3.5 so folks new to PF may have missed it.
Yes, I was making the point that when you do something else that requires your concentration, you are no longer concentrating on detecting magic.
But I definitely agree it is worth pointing out the difference in the rules. I know that there are a lot of changes like that I've missed, and it is a thread about misusing spells after all.
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Charm spells are frequently misused - people often think of them as magical control of other people. Charm doesn't mean you magically control someone, it means they magically default to a friendly attitude. You need a charisma check to get them to do something or a diplomacy check to improve their attitudes.
Protection from ______ is a good one, too. The +2 vs. alignment creatures is cool, especially if you're up against a lot of evil, chaotic, lawful, or good creatures at once. But the real awesome part is the protection from mind control.
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I think the most misused spell/spell-like ability is detect evil, many players tend not to read the detect (alignment) aura strength descriptions and think that every NPC they meet who is evil must be able to be detected by this spell, and then they have a hissy-cow when the 3rd-level CE Cleric of Calistria does all sorts of evil nasty stuff to them when they had no evil aura.
They probably mistakenly believe the goddess is evil, right?
Like most guys, the patron of clingy, psycho-PMT bunny-boiling b@*##es isn't anyone we'd want anything to do with.In their defence, I bet a few people on this thread had to go look that godess' alignment up. LOL
I've done this. My witch, Hama, was trapped in a desert dying of thirst. In her resulting delirium she came up with a crazy scheme to summon a hound archon, put herself into her own bag of holding, and have the hound archon teleport her to her home town. She then went on an adventure for two days (real time) in her home town before we realized that her trick wouldn't have worked and that she was still stuck in the desert (it was all just a glorious, hopeful dream).
Hama never did escape that desert as far as anyone is aware.
Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't this work? I thought that summoned creatures couldn't cast spells after they were summoned unless they had expensive material components.
And if it didn't work, wouldn't she have suffocated in her bag of holding after 10 minutes?
I've done this. My witch, Hama, was trapped in a desert dying of thirst. In her resulting delirium she came up with a crazy scheme to summon a hound archon, put herself into her own bag of holding, and have the hound archon teleport her to her home town. She then went on an adventure for two days (real time) in her home town before we realized that her trick wouldn't have worked and that she was still stuck in the desert (it was all just a glorious, hopeful dream).
Hama never did escape that desert as far as anyone is aware.
Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't this work? I thought that summoned creatures couldn't cast spells after they were summoned unless they had expensive material components.
And if it didn't work, wouldn't she have suffocated in her bag of holding after 10 minutes?
summoned critters can't teleport or summon other monsters
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.
summoned criters can't cast spells with expensive components (that keeps he partyfrom mass producing continual flame rocks for free) they can cast their otherspells just fine.
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.
summoned criters can't cast spells with expensive components (that keeps he partyfrom mass producing continual flame rocks for free) they can cast their otherspells just fine.
Well, there it is.
I think the most misused spell/spell-like ability is detect evil, many players tend not to read the detect (alignment) aura strength descriptions and think that every NPC they meet who is evil must be able to be detected by this spell, and then they have a hissy-cow when the 3rd-level CE Cleric of Calistria does all sorts of evil nasty stuff to them when they had no evil aura, or they can't tell if anyone in a bar is evil (no, 5th level evil Commoners and Experts are not going to be very common in my games when I am GMing).Also, the chart itself is messed up, because is 5th level the minimum HD for an aligned creature (non-undead/non-outsider/non-Cleric/non-Paladin/regular Joe) to have a Faint aura, or is 6th? Why would "None" say 5 or lower HD and then "Faint" have 5-10 HD when the rest of the chart is logically sound? You think they would have fixed that by now.
BTW, never underestimate the power of a hissy-cow.
My interpretation is actually that if those less-than-6-HD NPCs are present, they show up as a present evil. The aura strength is meant to measure lingering aura, which a standard NPC under 5th level does not produce.
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Summon Monster, Summon Nature's Ally - technically, the DM, not the caster, should be controlling the summoned creatures, but more often than not, the caster ends up deciding which enemies they will attack and where they will move, although according to the spell descriptions, this is only possible if the caster is able to communicate with the summoned creature (via common language, speak with animals spell, etc.) Otherwise, the caster is only able to designate where the creature first appears, and otherwise has no control over its actions, though the summoned creature will not attack the caster or his/her allies. Of course, many DMs deliberately let that slide, and allow the caster to assume full control of their summoned creatures, simply because we've already got so much on our plate just from the monsters we already have to control, so it can be a big pain in the butt to have to suddenly assume control of a half dozen more things that we weren't planning for.
Summon Swarm spell, Vomit Swarm spell - unlike the summon monster and summon nature's ally spells, summoned swarms will attack the nearest living thing, whether it is a friend, foe or even the caster him/herself. In the case of Summon Swarm, the caster has no control at all over where the swarm goes or who it attacks. In the case of the Vomit Swarm witch/alchemist spell, the witch has a small measure of control inasmuch as she can control the direction the swarm moves in, but cannot control what it attacks in that direction.
Leadership feat and Cohorts - far too many players don't understand that a cohort is not a slave, servant or charmed being, and they aren't intended to be another pc for the player, they are npc's. Mechanically, the main purpose for them is to give the party extra muscle without reducing xp awards. It is up to the DM, not the player with the Leadership feat, to build the cohort, choose its classes, feats, spells, etc, and to decide the cohort's actions and tactics. Most DMs (myself included) will give the player considerable say in how the cohort is built and played, and some will give the player total control. But player's who have cohorts should understand that's the DM being generous (and not wanting the hassle of having to run another character), but if you have a by-the-book DM, he/she is well within the rules to maintain total control over that cohort.
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I think the most misused spell/spell-like ability is detect evil, many players tend not to read the detect (alignment) aura strength descriptions and think that every NPC they meet who is evil must be able to be detected by this spell, and then they have a hissy-cow when the 3rd-level CE Cleric of Calistria does all sorts of evil nasty stuff to them when they had no evil aura, or they can't tell if anyone in a bar is evil (no, 5th level evil Commoners and Experts are not going to be very common in my games when I am GMing).
Actually, in some instances, creatures who don't have the Evil descriptor can still be detected with a detect evil spell if they have active evil intent, according to the spell description. Of course, the operative word here is "active," and different DM's may interpret that differently. A neutral evil human rogue sitting at a bar enjoying a drink will not show up under a detect evil spell. A neutral evil human rogue who is sitting at a card table cheating at poker, however, will. Likewise, a lawful evil assassin sitting in a corner reading a book will not show up as evil, but if he is sitting in the corner scoping out a target for his death attack, then he will show up as evil.
Unfortunately, just as detect evil won't always reveal someone of evil alignment, it can also show a false positive. For instance, a succubus who happens to also be a lawful good paladin will be detected by a detect evil spell, despite actually being of good alignment.
Unlike detect evil, the smite evil ability of paladins and some good outsiders is effective against both evil alignments and creatures with the evil descriptor, regardless of the actual alignment or the active intent of the target.
i think cheating at poker is only considered outright evil in texas
i think cheating at poker is only considered outright evil in texas
Yeah, I reckon that'd earn y'all a few bullet holes.
Leadership feat and Cohorts - far too many players don't understand that a cohort is not a slave, servant or charmed being, and they aren't intended to be another pc for the player, they are npc's. Mechanically, the main purpose for them is to give the party extra muscle without reducing xp awards. It is up to the DM, not the player with the Leadership feat, to build the cohort, choose its classes, feats, spells, etc, and to decide the cohort's actions and tactics. Most DMs (myself included) will...
I would dispute that, but only to a degree. Certainly a DM should vet the cohort in the same way they vet any character, but depending on how the cohort is acquired I do not see why a DM should 'always' roll it up/create it. Several reasons, mainly thinking 'in character' here rather than power play. Obviously if the player is only taking it for abuse purposes or 'just to have a healer/caster/item mass-producer on tap' then certainly, veto it and give him an alternative.
I currently have both a player-made and a DM made cohort in two seperate campaigns. The player made one was because the cohort was the 2nd in command of a small mercenary unit led by my main character, and it made sense to create him in line with the rest of them (unit of dwarven crossbowmen followers, lieutenant and Captain. Would be stupid if the lieutenant was forced upon me as a barbarian, given the rest of the group is Lawful Good...)
However, my other cohort was a deputised reformed alcholic ex-soldier my Paladin recruited off the street as part of obtaining the Leadership feat. He was, up until I announced my intention of showing him the right path, a simple NPC commoner/warrior multiclass created by the DM, with his own backstory and ticks, which was cool. Sure, I gifted him a few items to help him on the way and he became a preacher (cleric) once he started travelling with us and earnt a level, but all the DM did was create him in the first instance and I went with it after that.
I'm happy on either cohort to have actions vetoed as unsuitable, but, because i've tied them in so strongly with my main char anyway, that usually doesn't happen (though the time the preacher took on a whole bar condemning their foul habits and sin was entirely DM led...)
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I would dispute that, but only to a degree. Certainly a DM should vet the cohort in the same way they vet any character, but depending on how the cohort is acquired I do not see why a DM should 'always' roll it up/create it.
Leadership feat and Cohorts - far too many players don't understand that a cohort is not a slave, servant or charmed being, and they aren't intended to be another pc for the player, they are npc's. Mechanically, the main purpose for them is to give the party extra muscle without reducing xp awards. It is up to the DM, not the player with the Leadership feat, to build the cohort, choose its classes, feats, spells, etc, and to decide the cohort's actions and tactics. Most DMs (myself included) will...
I wasn't trying to say they should always roll it up and create it. My point - and I probably could have explained it better, in retrospect - is that players should not get disgruntled when their DM does not give them complete freedom to build their cohort. They are, by definition, NPCs (and most of the sourcebooks tend to lean toward them being primarily DM-run characters). Like I said, quite a few DMs will allow the players to build their own cohorts, or at least sit in on the process, but there are also many who like to maximize the roleplay aspect and surprise the PC with what kinds of potential cohorts show up. In the latter case, of course, the player should have the right to accept or reject the cohort, as they aren't obliged to take the first guy who shows up eager to serve.
The problems that come up with leadership have less to do with it being "misused" and more of a problem that it is not a feat that can be universally applied to all characters across all campaigns and groups. I've seen both DM's and players overreact to the potential range of impact this feat can have. Ultimately, for it to work, both sides have to do some prep work and layout basic ground rules of how it will work, while taking into account specific ideas either person had for the specific campaign and character. While having a DM roll up 2 or 3 random npcs and having the player pick one might work just fine if the main concern is filling a gap in healing, it could cause problems if the player took the feat with the goal of creating a group, with the PC at the head of it, and the cohort the second in command who would run the day to day activities.
I agree that the image line of spells are some of the most easily misunderstood (from my experience), as "interacting" is too loosely interpreted (or not accurately described enough to be id10t proof? Arguing semantics is my least favorite thing to do at the gaming table...) and often hand-waived.I totally agree. The image spells are a poor holdover from 3.5 and ache to be rewritten with much better, concise language that is more player/DM-friendly.
I disagree entirely. These, IMO, are some of the best written spells in the game. They are a small list with a wide variety of effects adaptable to the situation at hand. The effects are specific. I run into fewer problems with suspention of disbelief with illusion spells than with fireball. What do you mean I can't scale down my explosion?
That being said, I just learned a new one: Fireball: must successfully hit the square you are targetting, since you are shooting a bead form your finger. Also, it damages combustibles in the area (I mean really, its a ball of fire).
Entangle. Many players assume it could be cast in a barren desert and plants would just spring up from nowhere to grab things.Same thing about Web, you need at least to opposites walls to support the web. This is often overlooked by some GMs or players. :)
At least Web is more usable. Entangle is cool and all, but if you don't misuse it, it is rather useless.
My witch, Hama, was trapped in a desert dying of thirst. In her resulting delirium she came up with a crazy scheme to summon a hound archon, put herself into her own bag of holding, and have the hound archon teleport her to her home town. She then went on an adventure for two days (real time) in her home town before we realized that her trick wouldn't have worked and that she was still stuck in the desert (it was all just a glorious, hopeful dream).
Hama never did escape that desert as far as anyone is aware.
See, I think your idea might have worked if you'd simply gone beyond the stringent limits of the spell's description and thought outside the box a bit.
Consider that Hama could summon her hound archon as planned and simply have pleaded with it for its help saying: "Oh paragon of goodness and ambassador of the heavenly host, I've called you here because without your help I'll surely die of thirst alone in this dessert. If you'll find some way to get me out of here and return me to my home then I'll gladly give you or a mortal church of your choice (insert an appropriate amount of money or items that your character has) or perform a righteous service with which you task me, if I am able."
Then, once the spell is over the hound archon reappears in heaven but with the knowledge that without his intervention your character will surely die. So he goes and visits one of his nearby trumpet archon buddies, conveys your sad tale and in short order arranges to be plane shifted to the mortal plane. And, before your witch can say "so thirsty...", the hound archon teleports to your location, scoops you up into your bag of holding and teleports you as requested to your home. You hand over the agreed upon "donation" for his righteous aid and off he teleports back to his trumpet archon's side for their return trip to heaven.
Seems that, knowing he's your character's only chance, the archon can't really refuse to help you; he's the epitome of selflessness and kindness after all. Proper restitution for his aid simply ensures that its worth his and his trumpet archon friend's time. Everybody is happy and the cause of goodness is served. =)
My witch, Hama, was trapped in a desert dying of thirst. In her resulting delirium she came up with a crazy scheme to summon a hound archon, put herself into her own bag of holding, and have the hound archon teleport her to her home town. She then went on an adventure for two days (real time) in her home town before we realized that her trick wouldn't have worked and that she was still stuck in the desert (it was all just a glorious, hopeful dream).
Hama never did escape that desert as far as anyone is aware.
See, I think your idea might have worked if you'd simply gone beyond the stringent limits of the spell's description and thought outside the box a bit.
Consider that Hama could summon her hound archon as planned and simply have pleaded with it for its help saying: "Oh paragon of goodness and ambassador of the heavenly host, I've called you here because without your help I'll surely die of thirst alone in this dessert. If you'll find some way to get me out of here and return me to my home then I'll gladly give you or a mortal church of your choice (insert an appropriate amount of money or items that your character has) or perform a righteous service with which you task me, if I am able."
Then, once the spell is over the hound archon reappears in heaven but with the knowledge that without his intervention your character will surely die. So he goes and visits one of his nearby trumpet archon buddies, conveys your sad tale and in short order arranges to be plane shifted to the mortal plane. And, before your witch can say "so thirsty...", the hound archon teleports to your location, scoops you up into your bag of holding and teleports you as requested to your home. You hand over the agreed upon "donation" for his righteous aid and off he teleports back to his trumpet archon's side for their return trip to heaven.
Seems that, knowing he's your character's only chance, the archon can't really refuse to help you; he's the epitome of selflessness and kindness after all. Proper...
A nice story, but judging by his other descriptions of Hana on the boards, I think Justice and Mercy are better served by letting her die in the desert. :)