Wondrous Item auto-reject advice #18: Item makes bearer unable to be lost

[Cartigan]

Jeremiziah wrote:

This thread is going in a great direction!

I thought it was lost!

[Azmahel]

But it totally isn't lost, it knows where it's going. Look, it's a shortcut. No We don't need to stop and ask for the way, No you shouldn't have brought a map, it doesn't need one. It will be back on track real soon. ;)

If you've got to continue this discussion, please take it somewhere else :)

[Lachlan Rocksoul]

Azmahel wrote:

But it totally isn't lost, it knows where it's going. Look, it's a shortcut. No We don't need to stop and ask for the way, No you shouldn't have brought a map, it doesn't need one. It will be back on track real soon. ;)

If you've got to continue this discussion, please take it somewhere else :)

In other words, get lost?

[Crowface]

Are we there yet?? ;)

[Cartigan]

I use my Diadem of Derailing.

[Andrew Christian]

Azmahel wrote:

If you've got to continue this discussion, please take it somewhere else :)

You know, the discussion is rather germane to the topic. So its not like we derailed it.

I can see how two folks who aren't agreeing but keep posting back and forth could be annoying to some...

But the conversation is relevant.

[Azmahel]

Andrew Christian wrote:

Azmahel wrote:

If you've got to continue this discussion, please take it somewhere else :)

You know, the discussion is rather germane to the topic. So its not like we derailed it.

I can see how two folks who aren't agreeing but keep posting back and forth could be annoying to some...

But the conversation is relevant.

Yeah, marginally. Whether or not find the path would allow you to escape the dark and misty forest (tm) might be related to an advice about magic-gps-devices and other unable-to-be-lost items, but only to a certain degree. And once you hit a certain depth of discussion on this related topic you have left this relation and spawned a full fleshed sidetrack. And once this is the case it is better to continue that discussion somewhere else and maybe, should you come to an agreement post your results here.

But how does not being able to get lost thanks to find the path make this auto-reject advice more or less true?

In Short: You didn't hijack the thread, but you might have got yourself lost in a sidetracked discussion.

[Noteleks]

I knew I should of taken a right at Albuquerque.

[Vic Wertz]

Andrew Christian wrote:

But the conversation is relevant.

The conversation is entirely missing the *point* of the advice. I've boiled it down from Sean's original post:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Every year we get several item submissions that prevent the bearer from becoming lost.

These items aren't good items because they take away a GM's ability to have any sort of adventure or encounter that relies on the PCs being lost.... They also take away the element of excitement and danger when PCs are exploring a new territory. In general, an item that eliminates an entire category of encounter/adventure premises aren't fun.

...the items in this auto-reject category... just say, "you can't get lost." And absolutes like that in game rules can have problematic consequences... especially when getting lost and/or wandering around the world/dungeon is sort of what adventurers do for a living. Anyway, we've seen this kind of item over and over... submitting another one isn't likely to appear innovative, cool, or clever.

*Can* you make an item that says you can't get lost? Sure. Does it potentially spoil a bunch of potential adventures? Yes. Would it therefore annoy a bunch of GMs? Yep. Will it advance in RPG Superstar? Sounds like not.

[Andrew Christian]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Andrew Christian wrote:

But the conversation is relevant.

The conversation is entirely missing the *point* of the advice. I've boiled it down from Sean's original post:

*Can* you make an item that says you can't get lost? Sure. Does it potentially spoil a bunch of potential adventures? Yes. Would it therefore annoy a bunch of GMs? Yep. Will it advance in RPG Superstar? Sounds like not.

Oh, I agree with the entire point Sean was making. I guess, like in other threads, as others have done, I was merely trying to show how existing spells/items can be self limiting if used as written, and don't go against the particular advice.

I guess its just a pet peeve of mine when folks try to slam advice like this by saying, "yeah but x does y so how does this make my item rejected" when x really doesn't do all that they say y does.

But regardless, I get the hint, I'm outta this particular discussion.

[Azmahel]

Andrew Christian wrote:

I guess its just a pet peeve of mine when folks try to slam advice like this by saying, "yeah but x does y so how does this make my item rejected" when x really doesn't do all that they say y does.

But regardless, I get the hint, I'm outta this particular discussion.

It is important to note: even if x does y and x is printed in a book, ( yes, even the corebook) doesn't mean that y is good design, or at least the kind of design this contest is looking for.

Are there items in the Core, that do nothing but give an Ability-bonus ?

Yes, absoultely.

Are they bad design or should cut from the book or anything?

No, they are absolutely necessary for the game and an important staple of its genre.

Can such an item advance in rpg-superstar?
No, most likely not. It's simply not the kind of design suited for this contest.

So, if you think you shouldn't be rejected, because there are already things in the game that do what you did, and therefore it must be good remember it is not rpg-write-some-random-addition-for-our-next-splatbook-superstar.

[Interesting Character]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

There are a lot of magical things in the game that destroy low-level plots (such as "you are lost"). Deliberately creating an item which has the primary purpose of eliminating one of them is bad game design.

Also, high-level characters can get lost, too. Teleports go awry. Planar travel sends you places you've never been, or to places where the geography is mutable. Automapping magic items IMMEDIATELY thwart getting lost, even for these characters.

"Oh no, we teleported to the Abyss!"
"No worries, my map of cheating lameness shows we're right here, and right over there is a mountain with a portal back to Absalom. It's traveling west a five miles per day, but we can easily catch it with a combination of teleport and overland flight."
"Thank the gods that we won't be wandering around looking for an exit or forced to have dialogue with local creatures to find our way home!"

Lame.

There is a big difference between this and not getting lost. What you described isn't a "never get lost" item, its a "always know how to get where you want to go" item, which are two very different things.