Question regarding the Pathfinder Cosmology


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I was reading over the wiki (As I, sadly, lack access to the books, as of yet, curse be my current financial status), and I started to note something strange. It seems that once you get into the Plane of Air, you're suddenly able to actually Physically traverse the planes, going through air, to Water, to Earth, then to fire, finally into the Astral plane and from there to the Maelstrom and Outer Sphere. While I'm certain such a journey would be so prodigiously long that to do it as a campaign would be just about impossible, I can't help but wonder on this.

Note, I am not complaining, in fact, I find the concept that it is possible to 'traverse the planes' as it were rather interesting, like each plane is a pocket within this far far greater plane, each one 'region' different in a way that the other, smaller divisions within the 'planes' might be different from each other.

Perhaps I'm reading to much into this, or perhaps the Wiki has phrased it all wrong, but I just though I would point it out.


In theory, you could do this in the great wheel cosmology as well...

this is why there were Earth "island" chunks in the other elemental planes, etc. And quasiplanes like brine, lightning and mineral at the "intersections".

The real reason, I suspect, is that the Elemental cosmology of Pathfinder is based on Aristotelian Cosmology* witht the four elements forming sub-lunar spheres of finite depth (although they were immense as all imagining).

* I know there were some philosophers of antiquity whose cosmologies mapped more closesly to Golarion's, but their exact names escape me. Aristotle's is "close enough", or at least it is what I found on google.


You actually don't have to "get" to the Plane of Air before this effect kicks in. If you head out into space far enough, you'll find yourself in Air.


I was under the impression that the planes in the Great Wheel cosmology are all infinite. Such as the abyss being infinite layers of infinite size each. And the Astral Plane being of Infinite size as well.

However, with Pathfinder, it seems more like these Planes are just really... REALLY big. Like 'cannot cross in a human lifetime' for each individual plane itself.

I'm also not so sure about the Plane of Air being in space, unless the Pathfinder Material plane is the biggest of all the planes (Since it's implied that Space is big enough that it has the freakin lovecraftian horrors hiding out in it.)

Contributor

vp21ct wrote:
I was under the impression that the planes in the Great Wheel cosmology are all infinite. Such as the abyss being infinite layers of infinite size each. And the Astral Plane being of Infinite size as well.

Yep, the Great Wheel planes were infinite with the exception of demiplanes.

Quote:
However, with Pathfinder, it seems more like these Planes are just really... REALLY big. Like 'cannot cross in a human lifetime' for each individual plane itself.

The difference in Pathfinder might be entirely academic given the scale that they're at. However of the planes, it's entirely possible that the Maelstrom and/or the Abyss might be actually infinite.

Quote:
I'm also not so sure about the Plane of Air being in space, unless the Pathfinder Material plane is the biggest of all the planes (Since it's implied that Space is big enough that it has the freakin lovecraftian horrors hiding out in it.)

Again truly massive, mind boggling scale. The Material plane is essentially a sphere at the center of the nestled, spherical shells of the elemental planes. Fly out far enough in space, you get to the Plane of Air in theory. In practice this physical transition might be an exercise in Zeno's paradox given the scale it's all at. You could fly and fly and fly and never quite get there (before dying of old age).

Of course, please adapt the situation to fit your particular campaign needs. :)


Since Todd chimed in and didn't mention it, here:

The Temenos Spike:

"The Spike looms out of the glowing expanse of the Astral as a drifting object composed of an unidentified gold and green substance with the rough feel and appearance of dense glass or crystal. Fully twelve miles in length, and almost five miles across, the spike’s surface is pockmarked and dented, scoured by flames, blunt impact trauma, and even the appearance of freeze-fracturing. Battered but intact, nearly a mile of one side carries a small mountain of burning, still cooling basaltic lava, leaving a ghostly tail of burning tektites in its wake. At some point in its history, the Spike would appear to have punctured through a truly monstrous wake of lava or volcanic mountain, and if its trajectory through the void is mapped back –combined with its bizarre damage- it may have done just that.

Of unknown origin, Jzerigoth’s Dagger appears to have been a mortal attempt to reach the heavens – an attempt to physically reach beyond the stars, beyond the spheres of the elements, and breach the very vault of the gods themselves. It might not have been a spiritual quest of benevolent nature – it might have been intended as the final dying curse against the divine by a forsaken race, hurling their hatred to the outer spheres with the intention of cracking them asunder. The only clue to this however comes from the psychometric perceptions of psions who –having touched the Spike’s surface- report feeling “intense conviction” from the interior, or perhaps the object itself.

Others speculate it was never occupied by living beings, but instead, like the pyramid tombs of Osirion’s god-king rulers, it was an attempt by a dying alien ruler to reach across the breadth of the universe and deliver his body and soul to the divine, uncorrupt and unified, and untouched by Abbadon’s predators. Whatever the contents of the Spike, it seems to draw the attention of astradaemons like blood in the surf to mortal sharks, but despite their normal ethereal nature, they remain just as blunted in their search for entry as anyone else.

The Spike appears unguided and without any active propulsion, but even as it cartwheels across the void like a storm-tossed ghost ship, it remains a poignant and disturbing fact that it very well may one day reach its original destination. It might take a hundred thousand years, but if undisturbed, the vessel and its cargo or occupants will find whatever distant shore they set out for so very long ago, there finding the target of their hopes or their hatred."

Contributor

Jonathon Vining wrote:

Since Todd chimed in and didn't mention it, here:

The Temenos Spike:

I actually considered posting that as an example of physical transit of the planes, and where my head was in considering that as an option. But it was late and I didn't recall where I had the pre-edit Word doc with that stuffed on my desktop.

Thanks for adding it. :)

The Exchange

Todd, this is off-topic but I just wanted to let you know that we sent an email to you about 2 1/2 weeks ago asking if you wanted your piece in the Anthology we are making at Pathfinder Chronicler. I have received responses from everyone thus far but I started to think that the email I sent you somehow got cyber junked. Let me know by responding to my email address at zuxius11@yahoo.com

Contributor

Zuxius wrote:
Todd, this is off-topic but I just wanted to let you know that we sent an email to you about 2 1/2 weeks ago asking if you wanted your piece in the Anthology we are making at Pathfinder Chronicler. I have received responses from everyone thus far but I started to think that the email I sent you somehow got cyber junked. Let me know by responding to my email address at zuxius11@yahoo.com

Emailed you back. :)

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