The group I play with consists of players who have at least 15 years of experience in all sorts of RP games. WoD, Vampire, D&D and all sorts of other games, pen and paper and computer alike. Most of us have known each other for at least 10 years, some I have known for as long as I remember.
Three years ago I started playing RPG’s and this year I started to DM. All together only 3 years of experience with three different games (WoD/Vampire, D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder) against a collective of 6-7 player with a total of 100+ years of experience.
Some time ago, we had a friend of us joining our group. He is very loud and much of an attention wh@re. A real OOC Diva. He has stated that he knows he is loud and asks me to call at him to stop him every time he does this. But personally I think he should consider the rest of the group and keep a hold on himself.
Last game I ended up yelling at him my self because I was fed up with him disturbing my conversations with the players and people simply not hearing me call them.
One of the guys takes his side in this, which makes it harder for me to find a solution. Any idea’s?
Uhm, just reading between the lines, are you perhaps feeling overwhelmed by DMing for a group with so much more gaming experience then yourself?
If I were in your shoes, I'd remind the group that I was still a little green and that all help would be appreciated.
If I were in your shoes, I'd remind the group that I was still a little green and that all help would be appreciated.This is really solid advice.
The other six know this, and when i started i had no trouble at all. Mostly because i know my friend en know the way they play and what they like in a game.
The Diva joined only a few weeks ago and is just very much present.
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Have you tried the liberal application of constructive benign violence?
Perhaps I can interest you in a brochure?
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OT: Talk to him. Explain to him, clearly, how his behaviour is annoying the hell out of you and making things hard. Express your intent to batter him with heavy blunt objects calmly - hey, why lie?
Be sure to adopt a calm, reassuring manner. Be nice.
Be sure he understand it's not *him* that's annoying you but *his behavior*.
If he has any sense he will shut up or at least *try* to shut up.
If he has no sense you can ask him to leave - just be sure to make it clear to him that he is welcome back whenever he feels he is capable choosing a manner of behavior that is less disruptive.
If he returns and reverts back to his previous annoying state, remind him that he will be asked to leave if he continues.
..and so on..
..and so on..
EXTREME BENIGN VIOLENCE SHOULD ONLY BE PRACTICED BY QUALIFIED BIFTECH ENGINEERS. CONSULT YOUR JOY-OPS COUNCILOR FOR MORE INFORMATION.
The other six know this, and when i started i had no trouble at all. Mostly because i know my friend en know the way they play and what they like in a game.
The Diva joined only a few weeks ago and is just very much present
Social dynamics, like this, can be addressed by the group as well. All you have to do is be upfront with your players and talk about the behavior you're having trouble with.
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.....Have you tried the liberal application of constructive benign violence?
Perhaps I can interest you in a brochure?
::
OT: Talk to him. Explain to him, clearly, how his behaviour is annoying the hell out of you and making things hard. Express your intent to batter him with heavy blunt objects calmly - hey, why lie?
Be sure to adopt a calm, reassuring manner. Be nice.
Be sure he understand it's not *him* that's annoying you but *his behavior*.
If he has any sense he will shut up or at least *try* to shut up.
If he has no sense you can ask him to leave - just be sure to make it clear to him that he is welcome back whenever he feels he is capable choosing a manner of behavior that is less disruptive.
If he returns and reverts back to his previous annoying state, remind him that he will be asked to leave if he continues.
..and so on..
..and so on..
EXTREME BENIGN VIOLENCE SHOULD ONLY BE PRACTICED BY QUALIFIED BIFTECH ENGINEERS. CONSULT YOUR JOY-OPS COUNCILOR FOR MORE INFORMATION.
HA! You FORGOT TO SHAKE YOUR FIST!!! HA!!!
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You could try 'in-character chat only' rules.
Obviously, this also includes stating your character's actions but not any other chat.
I would also try beginning next session with an apology (Sorry, I shouldn't shout at my friends) coupled with a request (Can everyone help me out by keeping the chit-chat down).
It seems that your loud friend is not taking responsibility for his actions: "I know I'm loud, Just give me attention, sorry, call me on it, and I'll stop." That's not very friendly, making you responsible for his behaviour.
HA! You FORGOT TO SHAKE YOUR FIST!!! HA!!!
Caught on camera - the shame, the shame!
Of course, you do realise this means that you can't be allowed to leave the facility with a fully functioning cerebral cortex?...
Some of my players have a tendency to chit-chat and slow up the game with their OOC dialog which prompted me to invent the /Hand of Silence/ method.
Before your next session, explain that you're instating a new house rule to help maintain game flow. Whenever you raise your hand, all players should be silent so that the DM can address any issues and then keep the game moving.
This worked really well with my group. Now when the OOC talk gets out of control I raise my hand and everyone goes quiet and we move the game along. Simple and easy.
Hope you are able to work something out. :)
As DM, just stop all dialogue and stare at the offender.
This works.
As DM, just stop all dialogue and stare at the offender.
This works.
+1
It is important to play to the mob. When someone gets out of hand you need to toe the line between sweet, friendly DM and angry ogre.
Stare at him and listen intently to what he has to say. After he is done talking stare at him for another moment until it becomes uncomfortable, then just shake your head.
If he continues then you can call him out but try to remain calm. Make his disruption a group issue and not just about you and him.
Other favorites are:
"Sorry Bob, what was that again, Joe was talking."
"Hmmm...interesting perspective Joe...anyway as I was saying."
"Joe...that is fascinating...can you please expand on it...(starts talking)...clearly you are not familiar with the new sarcasm trend that is sweeping the nation."
Don't yell. Belittle, degrade, and embarass him.
Have fun
It is important to play to the mob. When someone gets out of hand you need to toe the line between sweet, friendly DM and angry ogre.
I see you have been reading our pamphlet!
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Some time ago, we had a friend of us joining our group. He is very loud and much of an attention wh@re. A real OOC Diva. He has stated that he knows he is loud and asks me to call at him to stop him every time he does this. But personally I think he should consider the rest of the group and keep a hold on himself.Last game I ended up yelling at him my self because I was fed up with him disturbing my conversations with the players and people simply not hearing me call them.
So let me get this right, your friend has asked you to help him keep everything fun for everyone and you said no do it yourself. Then you yelled at him because he didn't.
It sounds to me like to pourposfuly set him up to fail and now want someone else to say no your not the ***hole, he is and how you can ask him to leave.
How about this piece of advice grow up and tell him that while you didn't want him to join the group you gave him a shot and it isn't working out.
Then simply stop DMing till you learn to be more of an adult about things.
If it sounds like I'm being harsh, I am. I'm a GM and I know that if one of my friends asked for help that I couldn't give I don't blame him when it comes up.
Some time ago, we had a friend of us joining our group. He is very loud and much of an attention wh@re. A real OOC Diva. He has stated that he knows he is loud and asks me to call at him to stop him every time he does this. But personally I think he should consider the rest of the group and keep a hold on himself.Last game I ended up yelling at him my self because I was fed up with him disturbing my conversations with the players and people simply not hearing me call them.
So let me get this right, your friend has asked you to help him keep everything fun for everyone and you said no do it yourself. Then you yelled at him because he didn't.
It sounds to me like to pourposfuly set him up to fail and now want someone else to say no your not the ***hole, he is and how you can ask him to leave.
How about this piece of advice grow up and tell him that while you didn't want him to join the group you gave him a shot and it isn't working out.
Then simply stop DMing till you learn to be more of an adult about things.
If it sounds like I'm being harsh, I am. I'm a GM and I know that if one of my friends asked for help that I couldn't give I don't blame him when it comes up.
Ouch!
I must respectfully disagree. This player is asking for it and had a tongue lashing coming. When he says "I know I can be a bit of a blah, blah, blah..." He is essentially excusing himself from future bad behavior by saying that he cant controll himself and is asking the GM to controll his behavior.
The GM is doing precisely what he asked if he is giving this guy an ass chewing whenever he gets out of hand. That is what he asked for.
So let me get this right, your friend has asked you to help him keep everything fun for everyone and you said no do it yourself. Then you yelled at him because he didn't.
It sounds to me like to pourposfuly set him up to fail and now want someone else to say no your not the ***hole, he is and how you can ask him to leave.
How about this piece of advice grow up and tell him that while you didn't want him to join the group you gave him a shot and it isn't working out.
Then simply stop DMing till you learn to be more of an adult about things.
If it sounds like I'm being harsh, I am. I'm a GM and I know that if one of my friends asked for help that I couldn't give I don't blame him when it comes up.
Not just harsh, but maybe also a bit out of line. The OP asked the player to maintain himself as an adult and declined the invitation to "be the bad guy" on a regular basis. I don't understand how that's immature in any way. As an adult one should be responsible for maintaining their own social space and not rely on others to corral them.
As for the OP, I would start your next session with an apology. This guy is your friend, and something like this shouldn't drive you two apart. After that, I'd calmly explain that his (and everyone else's, it sounds) is disrupting the game. If your friendship with the group means anything, this needs to be said, plain as day. Then, I'd start using some of the other suggestions people have posted.
Don't be a dick about it, though. I really liked the notecard & whisper method, as well as rewarding players who are actively paying attention. Raising your hand is a really good one, too, when things go too far. Just remember that everyone is playing to have fun. If you go all super-nazi you're destroying your game more than your disruptive friend.
Edit: Ninja'd by that jerk Phazzle. :D
Edit: Ninja'd by that jerk Phazzle. :D
HA HA HA!!! The day is mine FitzSimon! Tremble before Phazzle's superior timing!!!
So let me get this right, your friend has asked you to help him keep everything fun for everyone and you said no do it yourself. Then you yelled at him because he didn't.It sounds to me like to pourposfuly set him up to fail and now want someone else to say no your not the ***hole, he is and how you can ask him to leave.
How about this piece of advice grow up and tell him that while you didn't want him to join the group you gave him a shot and it isn't working out.
Then simply stop DMing till you learn to be more of an adult about things.
If it sounds like I'm being harsh, I am. I'm a GM and I know that if one of my friends asked for help that I couldn't give I don't blame him when it comes up.
I think you don’t understand my post, or you simply see the situation the other way around.
I started DM-ing because our regular DM actually wanted to play again. Since nobody in the group volunteered to DM, we agreed that I would give it a shot as long as they would try to help me out during my first games.
I am using the modules from Pathfinder, which work out really great! People told me they really had fun playing “something different”. Our first thee sessions were with our old group of 6 people and although I made several small mistakes, the group worked with me (no metagaming) and we had a really good gamenight.
Then the seventh player joined, he had played several times before with us, although not on a regular basis. Like I said, he claims a lot of attention and that first session I was unable to keep things going on simply because people got distracted by his loud talking and needing of attention. After the game I asked people to tell me what they thought of my first sessions and people claimed the last game was slow and messy. I then told people I think it the collective responsibility of the group and the DM to make it work and keep in fun.
When the seventh player told me he knows he is loud and wants me to yell at him for that, I stated that that is his own responsibility. He knows he is loud, so he should work with that himself. I refuse to became a schoolteacher or DM-nazi. All of us are there for the fun and being together. Everybody should work for it as hard. The average age or our group is 30, people should be grown up enough to allow others the same amount of fun.
I don’t want him to leave, he is welcome at every single session. But he should carry the same weight as the rest of us.
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I actually think you have far too many players, especially for a new DM. I used to run 7 man parties and i'm very experienced at it, but it still makes me shudder.
Yep, puts a whole new complexion on things.
You might benefit from being split into two groups with one GM and three players each.
This will also give your attention-seeker more play-time and less down-time, hopefully that will keep him focused on the game and more satisfied.
I actually think you have far too many players, especially for a new DM. I used to run 7 man parties and i'm very experienced at it, but it still makes me shudder.Yep, puts a whole new complexion on things.
You might benefit from being split into two groups with one GM and three players each.
This will also give your attention-seeker more play-time and less down-time, hopefully that will keep him focused on the game and more satisfied.
The size isn't a real problem, the group is selfregulating. As long as you don't have someone throwing a monkeywrech in the gears.
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The size isn't a real problem, the group is self-regulating. As long as you don't have someone throwing a monkeywrench in the gears.I actually think you have far too many players, especially for a new DM. I used to run 7 man parties and i'm very experienced at it, but it still makes me shudder.Yep, puts a whole new complexion on things.
You might benefit from being split into two groups with one GM and three players each.
This will also give your attention-seeker more play-time and less down-time, hopefully that will keep him focused on the game and more satisfied.
Fair enough, my thought was that it is much easier to GM for smaller groups (I refuse to GM for more than 6 and you really have to convince me that the 6th player is a good idea.
If your job is easier then you are more able to manage players.Plus the benefit of giving everyone, including Mr.Attention, more play time in each session.
Is Mr. Attention interested in and engaging with the adventure?
So the guy says he can't help it or something? Could be lying, could be true.
In case he's being honest with it, in case he has some OCD and really can't help it, he might want to see someone about it. I guess a regular doctor can take a first look and recommend someone.
Anyway, in this case he's not being a jerk on purpose, and whether you want to put up with it is up to you. But chances are you won't be able to "shame" him into changing.
You can, however, take his advice and tell him to stop it every time he does it. See if that works.
Caught on camera - the shame, the shame!
So it was you with the coffee incident I saw on that CCTV. I thought I recognised you.
Lucky me, I just drink tea!
6 players actually makes it easier for me, ingame they will have to taking into account the other players. A hallway only 10 feet wide is jammed up really fast. It gives the players an extra challenge, without me actually having to do something for it :D
last game three players were grappling an enemy for questioning, while the fourth thought it a good idea to Coupe d'grace him hehe.
Again, the size is mostly self-regulating. And although normally the group is in a good state and i am able to run the game normally and at a proper speed, the Seventh player usually messes this up.
He is often engaged with the adventure, although usually in a “special” (attention needing) kind a way.
So it was you with the coffee incident I saw on that CCTV. I thought I recognised you.Lucky me, I just drink tea!
..but did you use the milk?
O_o
..but did you use the milk?
Are you sure you got these in the right order?
I actually think you have far too many players, especially for a new DM. I used to run 7 man parties and i'm very experienced at it, but it still makes me shudder.
^This
I'm not the best DM either, 4-5 players is about all I can handle. I tried reigning in 7-8 players once and it was just too many people. On a more positive note, a big group like that won't last very long anyway. There are just way to many personal schedules that will get in the way of gaming. :)
Twig, I'm sorta confused here. You seem to be ignoring all of the solid, relevant advice and only responding to the people who either misunderstand you or offer dangerously poor advice.
Are you actually looking for a resolution here?
Twig, I'm sorta confused here. You seem to be ignoring all of the solid, relevant advice and only responding to the people who either misunderstand you or offer dangerously poor advice.
Are you actually looking for a resolution here?
yeah, and i actually like your solution the most. It'll be the first thing i will try.
the other solutions, the wispering or the notes, i will try when things still go wrong.
Thanks for the advice guy, i will keep you posted next week.
Twig, I'm sorta confused here. You seem to be ignoring all of the solid, relevant advice and only responding to the people who either misunderstand you or offer dangerously poor advice.
Are you actually looking for a resolution here?
yeah, and i actually like your solution the most. It'll be the first thing i will try.
the other solutions, the wispering or the notes, i will try when things still go wrong.
Thanks for the advice guy, i will keep you posted next week.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as so confrontational. You caught me before lunch and after a bad IT support call.
I look forward to hearing about how this thing turns out! Our group has a particularly difficult player who I personally struggle with. It'd be nice to see something resolve itself.