A creature that is glued to the floor (or unable to fly) can break free by making a DC 17 Strength check or by dealing 15 points of damage to the goo with a slashing weapon. A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off. Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed. If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make concentration check with a DC of 15 + the spell's level or be unable to cast the spell. The goo becomes brittle and fragile after 2d4 rounds, cracking apart and losing its effectiveness. An application of universal solvent to a stuck creature dissolves the alchemical goo immediately.
Is there really no way to escape from tanglefoot bags once they hit you? It seems you can only break free of it rooting you to the ground. As written, there seems to be absolutely no way to remove the entangled condition before it grows brittle on its own.
One of these things completely destroyed our party's dwarven paladin the other night. Not being able to move more than 10 feet for eight rounds was crippling. His touch AC didn't stand a chance.
Anyone else get the impression that they are a little too good for alchemical items?
** spoiler omitted **
Is there really no way to escape from tanglefoot bags once they hit you? It seems you can only break free of it rooting you to the ground. As written, there seems to be absolutely no way to remove the entangled condition before it grows brittle on its own.
One of these things completely destroyed our party's dwarven paladin the other night....
You get a save, and then you get a strength check or a damage roll to break free. Your party can even help out. I don't think it is too good. Now if all you got was once chance to get out I might agree.
I tend to agree with the OP, tanglefoot bags are a little too good.
Universal Solvent removes a tangle foot bag, costs 50gp
This substance has the unique property of being able to dissolve sovereign glue, tanglefoot bags, and all other adhesives. Applying the solvent is a standard action.
Even states about Universal Solvent in the Tanglefoot Bag description
A creature that is glued to the floor (or unable to fly) can break free by making a DC 17 Strength check or by dealing 15 points of damage to the goo with a slashing weapon. A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off. Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed. If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make concentration check with a DC of 15 + the spell's level or be unable to cast the spell. The goo becomes brittle and fragile after 2d4 rounds, cracking apart and losing its effectiveness. An application of universal solvent to a stuck creature dissolves the alchemical goo immediately.
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There's also alchemical solvent from the APG. 20 gp for: This bubbling purple gel eats through adhesives. Each vial can cover a single 5-foot square. It destroys normal adhesives (such as tar, tree sap, or glue) in a single round but takes 1d4+1 rounds to deal with more powerful adhesives (tanglefoot bags, spider webbing, and so on). It has no affect on fully magical adhesives, including sovereign glue.
Other than that, yeah, no way to get it off save for Universal Solvent, though I'd think freedom of movement would work also.
** spoiler omitted **
Is there really no way to escape from tanglefoot bags once they hit you? It seems you can only break free of it rooting you to the ground. As written, there seems to be absolutely no way to remove the entangled condition before it grows brittle on its own.
One of these things completely destroyed our party's dwarven paladin the other night. Not being able to move more than 10 feet for eight rounds was crippling. His touch AC didn't stand a chance.
Anyone else get the impression that they are a little too good for alchemical items?
Solvents have already been posted (both magical and alchemical if price is an issue) as was freedom of movement.
As for the paladin being crippled, it sounds like it is more a function of luck and intelligent game play than the item being overpowered. Stereotypical paladin (being what it is without more info on the character), the heavily armored guy with the assumed low touch AC (who would probably be my first choice as well), got hit with a touch attack, nothing extremely surprising there. The person who threw the item got a lucky roll (8 rounds is the max duration) and so the item is overpowered? It could have just as easily been 2 rounds.
I'll give you the item is good, it also costs 50 gold and has a static DC. It is expensive during the levels it will be most useful (to the point where it might not be bought as there are other things that are more generally effective, like decent mundane armor or a secondary weapon to bypass DR's) to effectively ineffective at the later stages of the game (freedom of movement or the penalty to hit/dex is almost insignificant IE if a -2 to something makes or breaks an encounter for a character there are all sorts of things wrong).
Compared to the spell Entangle it has some pros and more cons. Pros - if you get hit you suffer the penalty regardless of the save, you can effect flying creatures. Cons - it costs gold every time you try it (lower levels is a big issue), it only effects 1 target limited by size, you NEED to be close (as opposed to 400+ feet away with 80' of entangle between you and the target), no damage (as opposed to a possible 1 point from thorns each failed save), no possible increase to save DC (spell DC's scale from stats, items, and abilities), duration is 2-8 rounds as opposed to minutes (10 round min).
It's a niche item and as such needs something to make it stand out or it wouldn't ever get used. Good yes, too good, I can't say I'd go that far.
Also youe can cet out by dealing 15 pionts of slahing damage to glue and get out.
Freedom of movement let get free as well
I let prestidigitation(Clean) do 2D4 damage to the Tanglefoot bag
Tanglefoot bags are quite good, but I've always interpreted the rules as meaning you could scrape off your entanglement as well as prying yourself loose from the floor.
Encumbrance rules are the GM's friend when keeping tanglefoot bags in balance: Each weighs 4 pounds.
"You're carrying 10 tanglefoot bags? Really?"
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Tanglefoot bags are quite good, but I've always interpreted the rules as meaning you could scrape off your entanglement as well as prying yourself loose from the floor.
Encumbrance rules are the GM's friend when keeping tanglefoot bags in balance: Each weighs 4 pounds.
"You're carrying 10 tanglefoot bags? Really?"
"I sure am, my Haversack is full of fun alchemical items..." :)
Tanglefoot bags are quite good, but I've always interpreted the rules as meaning you could scrape off your entanglement as well as prying yourself loose from the floor.
Nope.
"Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed."
"Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed."
Half speed is the result if you succeed in defending against the bag, or later free yourself from it. There's no listed way to end the half speed condition early other than with a solvent.
I think Tanglefoot bags are just a little too good for alchemical items. Alchemical items should be decidedly weaker than magic, and a tanglefoot bag compares pretty evenly to a one shot use-activated entangle for the same 50gp.
I think Tanglefoot bags are just a little too good for alchemical items. Alchemical items should be decidedly weaker than magic, and a tanglefoot bag compares pretty evenly to a one shot use-activated entangle for the same 50gp.
I would still say the one-shot Entangle is much better, considering its far larger area of coverage (and consistently longer duration).
I think Tanglefoot bags are just a little too good for alchemical items. Alchemical items should be decidedly weaker than magic, and a tanglefoot bag compares pretty evenly to a one shot use-activated entangle for the same 50gp.I would still say the one-shot Entangle is much better, considering its far larger area of coverage (and consistently longer duration).
Yes, but Entangle can't stick an enemy to the floor, allows a save to avoid entanglement, doesn't effect an enemy once it leaves the AoE, and doesn't work if there are no plants around.
I think Tanglefoot bags are just a little too good for alchemical items. Alchemical items should be decidedly weaker than magic, and a tanglefoot bag compares pretty evenly to a one shot use-activated entangle for the same 50gp.I would still say the one-shot Entangle is much better, considering its far larger area of coverage (and consistently longer duration).
Also you could purchase a scroll of entangle if it is on your list or your have UMD for 25 gp, half the price of the tanglefoot bag.
I think the tanglefoot bag has always been a well designed item. It has a static save so it is its most useful when used against a low level enemy. It offers non-lethal combat utility for PC's and is an excellent tool for DM's to give little critters to cause a fight to become a bit more interesting, while using a monster's turn to not deal damage but still take an active roll in combat. This is usefull when I'm DM'ing and my players are on a stroke of bad luck/rolls and I want the monster not to look like he is pulling a punch but not stacking more damage.
It costs enough that a player will want to gain a level or two before buying enough to make serious use of them, as by lower mid levels the monsters will be powerful enough to ignore the most hindering effects.
Also giving a fighter the option to entangle and possibly immobilize a caster is good to force one into melee and possibly disrupt spells helps balance a fight between the two ever so slightly.
Also by higher levels the bag is less of a hinderence as there are ways around it. Freedom of Movement is one I think was mentioned. Dimension Door is a maybe (I think it pulls you and so much gear along, I don't know if that means you can choose to not bring the goo with you or not, along with similar dim. hopping abilities). And a warrior type has a good chance of breaking it either with Str check or straight damage.
Yes, but Entangle can't stick an enemy to the floor, allows a save to avoid entanglement, doesn't effect an enemy once it leaves the AoE, and doesn't work if there are no plants around.
The entanglement condition says that if you are entangled by something that is bound (such as manacles bolted to a wall or plants coming out of the ground) then the entangle effect does indeed root you to the floor (pun fully intended).
I don't see how the spell wouldn't bind you to the ground in most instances.
tanglefoot bags can slow or stop someone, alowing you to get them. The entangle spell puts a barrier out there, making it hard to reach them. You might get stuck yourself if you're not carefull.
low level: tangle bags
level 5ish and up: entange spell followed by fireball. (hopefully getting more than one bad guy)