was condiering who the best raw AOE damage dealer in pathfinder is
now you might immediately think a spec'd out wizard but acutally I think the Alchemist has it in the bag for raw damage.
Level 14 alchemist, 18INT
Infusion discovery
has 5 dragon breath extracts
gives 4 to his adventuring group keeps one himself
turn 1 they all drink and move in
turn 2 5 dragon breaths go off
60d6 damage in a single round, and requires 5 seperate ref saves to mitigate damage.
of course this dosen't factor in beating SR or a lower DC than a wizard would have, but for raw numbers in a singe round thats pretty potent
That is actually using all the actions of 5 characters for two turns, which means that your actual damage is 6d6 per character per turn. I can match that with 5 6th level wizards.
In fact, given one round of prep, I am pretty sure an evoker (and probably a universalist) could do better. Looking at level 14 (the same as your example):
Round 1
Evoker:
- Delayed Blast Fireball (1 round delay) 14d6+7
Universalist:
- Delayed Blast Fireball (1 round delay) 14d6
- Quickened Delayed Blast Fireball (1 round delay, metamagic mastery) 14d6
Round 2
Evoker:
- Intensified Maximized Fireball 14*6 + 7
- Quickened Fireball 10d6+7
Universalist:
- Intensified Maximized Fireball 14*6
- Quickened Fireball 10d6
Total damage for the evoker: 14d6+7+14*5+7+10d6+7 = 24d6+90, about 51d6
Total damage for the universalist: 14d6+14d6+14*6+10d6 = 34d6+84, about 59d6
This does assume the target does not realize that he should move away from the DBF bead. It is sort of interested that the universalist can outblast the evoker, but it did require him to use all of his uses of a class ability, while the evoker only used spell slots.
I am assuming universalist cast one spell from a bonded item and had an int of at least 24 to get a bonus 7th level spell. The evoker has enough spell slots between the standard 2 and the bonus slot for specialization.
Both wizards come clost to matching the damage output of the OP's alchemist, leaving his party members two turns worth of actions to add on additional damage.
If you let the damage occur over two rounds, both wizards will do much better, as the DBF in the first round get replaced with Instensified Maximized Fireballs (14d6 becomes 14*6=84 or about 24d6). That is an extra 10d6 damage for the evoker and an extra 20d6 damage for the universalist.
I can't say it's the *best* AOE attacker, but a wildshape focused Mountain Druid is a strong contender if she focuses on Giant Shape II & Whirlwind Attack.
Starting with 16 strength, bumping it 4 times, with a +6 item and the +8 size bonus from Giant Form II she has a strength score of 34. That, paired with a +5 weapon & power attack (at BAB +12 or higher) gives her the following:
Huge +5 Spear: 3d6+35 damage to every enemy within 3 squares, ignores allies. This is the equivalent to the average damage of 13d6. With a huge Scimitar (2h) it's only 12d6, but it can crit fairly often (especially w/ improved critical), and thus is probably worth even more.
It's also worth noting that this doesn't require her to "go nova," since she can do this every round, and she only needs to succeed vs. AC rather than hope for failed saving throws.
Edit: Added that last paragraph.
Elemental bloodline
Elemental Blast (Sp): At 9th level, you can unleash a blast of elemental power once per day. This 20-foot-radius burst does 1d6 points of damage of your energy type per sorcerer level. Those caught in the area of your blast receive a Reflex save for half damage. Creatures that fail their saves gain vulnerability
Vulnerabilties (Ex or Su) A creature with vulnerabilities takes half again as much damage (+50%) from a specific energy type.
Now empower this or maybe maximize it and things might look really bad. I have not ran any numbers, and there is still the issue of people actually having to fail the reflex save to become vulnerable. I only noticed this about a month ago, and I am itching to try it in a game.
That is actually using all the actions of 5 characters for two turns, which means that your actual damage is 6d6 per character per turn. I can match that with 5 6th level wizards.
In fact, given one round of prep, I am pretty sure an evoker (and probably a universalist) could do better. Looking at level 14 (the same as your example):
Round 1
Evoker:
- Delayed Blast Fireball (1 round delay) 14d6+7
Universalist:
- Delayed Blast Fireball (1 round delay) 14d6
- Quickened Delayed Blast Fireball (1 round delay, metamagic mastery) 14d6
Round 2
Evoker:
- Intensified Maximized Fireball 14*6 + 7
- Quickened Fireball 10d6+7
Universalist:
- Intensified Maximized Fireball 14*6
- Quickened Fireball 10d6
Total damage for the evoker: 14d6+7+14*5+7+10d6+7 = 24d6+90, about 51d6
Total damage for the universalist: 14d6+14d6+14*6+10d6 = 34d6+84, about 59d6This does assume the target does not realize that he should move away from the DBF bead. It is sort of interested that the universalist can outblast the evoker, but it did require him to use all of his uses of a class ability, while the evoker only used spell slots.
I am assuming universalist cast one spell from a bonded item and had an int of at least 24 to get a bonus 7th level spell. The evoker has enough spell slots between the standard 2 and the bonus slot for specialization.
Both wizards come clost to matching the damage output of the OP's alchemist, leaving his party members two turns worth of actions to add on additional damage.
If you let the damage occur over two rounds, both wizards will do much better, as the DBF in the first round get replaced with Instensified Maximized Fireballs (14d6 becomes 14*6=84 or about 24d6). That is an extra 10d6 damage for the evoker and an extra 20d6 damage for the universalist.
Well first how often do you adventure with a party of 5 mage's ? the alchemsit works with any party composition
second I read the spell wrong, its instantaneous
so its acutally
Round 1 everyone drinks and immedately breathes fire for 60d6 damage in a single round. either 30ft cone's or 60 lines of any element type. so you could make a mix of acid, fire, cold and elec brews if you didn't know what you might be facing.
even with prep your evoker can't beat that in 1 round.
heheh kind of like having 4 familairs to devlier spells for you ;)
Well first how often do you adventure with a party of 5 mage's ? the alchemsit works with any party composition
second I read the spell wrong, its instantaneous
so its acutally
Round 1 everyone drinks and immedately breathes fire for 60d6 damage in a single round. either 30ft cone's or 60 lines of any element type. so you could make a mix of acid, fire, cold and elec brews if you didn't know what you might be facing.
even with prep your evoker can't beat that in 1 round.
heheh kind of like having 4 familairs to devlier spells for you ;)
Well, it doesn't need a party of five wizards. One wizard does the universalist trick, while the rest of the party (let us for the sake of argument assume 1 cleric, 1 rogue, 1 fighter + 1 whatever) does their thing.
Don't get me wrong, your trick is a good one, but it isn't necessarily going to beat a five man party using "optimized" tactics (here I don't mean broken, just efficient).
as I said 60d6 can be done in 1 round not 2 ;) universailist trick needs 2 rounds.
for the first round of combat the rest of the group would probably need to use thier move action to get ito melee or get into a better position which limits thier first round damage to a std action which I rationaled would be best used on a 12d6 AOE attack
a 60d6 AOE would effectiley take out all the minions and support enemies in an encounter leaving the single hard one for the rest of the group to do thier things on. As an opening move its pretty solid and then the group can do thier normal thing for the rest of the encounter
hehehe was justing thinking could also give everyone a detonate extract
lol 5 living bombs walk into a bar ....... 50d8 later .....
5 enlarged lunging whirl-winding fighters walk into a bar...
5 enlarged lunging whirl-winding fighters walk into a bar...
still only 15ft range, and thats omnidirectional, instead of a focused line or cone of 60ft/30ft
as in the figheters would all need to be surrounded wheras the alch's group could do the surrounding and fire inward in overlapping fields of breath ;)
breath weapon is also a ref for half so will do some damage, std attacks from a whirlwind attack can miss and do no damage.
and like the 5 wizards how often do you play in a party of 5 fighters ?