Good things
1)The small stat blocks. - prep was so easy
2)Roll Initiative every round. Casting time for spells / weapon speed kept combat interesting and wizards in check.
3)No rules for building monsters - Yes these are kicking Ogres, deal with it!
4)AC vs. weapon type. Armour mattered
5)Reflecting Lightning bolts ;)
Bad things
1) Arbitrary level restrictions on demi-humans
2) Non weapon proficiencies ( I'm Stronk, the Strongest man in the world- as well as the worlds best blacksmith and fastest swimmer :(
3) the House-rules ...
For my part, while I enjoyed playing 2nd edition, I was glad for all of the changes over to 3.x.
Except for the settings.
So much of the settings in 3rd edition spend so much time fitting their world into the mechanics, they miss a lot of the flavor. TSR had some truly amazing talent at writing up flavorful settings - Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape. Even (IMO, to a far lesser degree) Spelljammer. Eberron is about the only exception that I can think of that truly felt like a flavorful world when I read it in 3rd edition. (Perhaps because it's one of the few official settings actually written for 3rd edition, instead of trying to shoehorn itself in.)
I just played in an AD&D2 game three weeks ago, when we tried to start a Birthright campaign (in the end, we agreed to re-start it again, because it didn´t work as planned first time). Before that, we had an epic campaign running many years, in the Mystara setting. I have to admit that I´m a fan of 3.x since it came out ten years ago, because it did away with clunky systems like Thac0, odd saving throws and other strangeness.
But then, 2e will hold a special place I guess, because it is the one RPG I played the most to this day. I had the PH as soon as it was available (in 1989) and immediately started converting my 1e game to the 2e rules. Settings were a strong point back then - Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms (even if these three are older than 2e), Planescape, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Mystara, Al-Qadim - I especially love Spelljammer and Al-qadim, even though I never had the chance to play with them.
So, yes, it is special somehow.
Stefan
I ran 1 e for years; but the imported skill and things so it was much like 2e; when 2E came out; ran it for years and ended up importing ideas and changed the game; but not on the scale of 3.5; now 3.5; am still running that; but I think it is a bit out of control unless the gm sets a lot of limits on which books to use. There is just two much stuff to use and keep track of; so after playing that for several years; most of us longed for a simpler game; some even retroed back to 2e. So; now I am in the the midst of redoing the idea of 3.5 feats because feats really need a hairy eyeball as some feats are just character color and some feats or feat combinations can change the entire face of the game. So; players should get a lot of one and not so many of the other. Most players though, expecially mages, are peeved about the spell changes and added limits and such. One thing about 1e adn 2e were that psionics were hard to contend with unless the gm actually followed the rules. Now by those rules; anytime a psionic power was used; or a spell that imitated a psionic power; a wandering monster check was required; so any detect or heal or a whole list of them. The gm should roll on the astral/ethereal wandering monster check. If the gm didnt do that; there was no balance to useing some of those really potent powers. such rolls tend to keep players in check from overusing spells or psionics when they are not really needed; to this day in the 3.5 game; I still use this rule and make this wandering monster check.
As for level limits inherent in the earlier editions due to race, I just doubled the amount of exps they require to level and took the level limit as an indication that their race is not as driven as other races; such as humans, to gain power and excel.
I was introduced and began playing 2E in 1996. I've DMing ever since. Sometimes we do a Pathfinder campaign or WoD or something. But I get thejus most enjoyment out of DMing 2E Forgotten Realms set in the Dalelands and Cormanthor. I even have an online group dedicated to AD&D 2E on the Wizards website. Best system and best roleplaying experieinces I've ever hand ever. I'm a 2E Devotee for life.Awesome :) J started playing tabletop games in 2000 with AD&D in a homebrew world (the defunct Thardferr) but 2e Realms continues to be my D&D setting of choice .
I wonder if there would be interest for a 2e game on the boards and would definitely like to run one although I can't commit to doing so for another year or so probably
Still it's great to see people are playing 2e and having a blast :)
I'd be interested in ssing something like this come into fruition in the future as well.
|
Wasn't THAC0 and 1E table exactly the same thing? THAC0 was only a reference (at AC "0"). Otherwise, project your THAC0 over a couple of AC above and below "AC 0" and you get the 1E table.You preferred looking combat results up on a table to THAC0? We were pretty happy to get off those tables. But YMMV.
And we ended up throwing out the whole stupid THAC0 system and used 1E combat.
THACO = To Hit Armor Class 0
Sad that I remember that... Haven't played 2e since the early 90's.
I played and ran in many games of 2nd edition during the ninties.
In all of them the house rules were 1-no level limits, everyone can multiclass and 2-everyone can dual class, just need prime requisites for the 2nd class.
No one minded to dwarves can't be wizards and gnomes can't be druids stuff, but exceptions were allowed if people had a good background story.
I think the original idea of level limits were due to massive lifespan, but long life rarely impacts the game, where campaigns generally go for 1-3 years of character time.
The system was okay but not perfect, Thac0/turning undead you want to roll high, skill rolls you want to roll low.
The non weapon proficencies was odd in that once you learned a skill you were generally awesome at it, there was no middle ground.
I could reel off the stats for most classes and monsters off the top of my head in those days, except the Saving throw tables which were all over the place.
So the streamlining of attack bonus, skills and saving throws from 2nd to 3rd was good idea.
I agree that the 2nd edition box sets were good, I loved Forgotten Realms grey box, planescape boxset and original greyhawk gold box set (might have been 1st ed).
One change to 3.0/3.5 I didn't like is so many NPC's in canon books and gamers in general were changing class to get a special ability, which to me is metagaming. Changing class should be a life-career change, thus roleplayed and built into the story-plot.
In 2nd and 3rd edition games we generally used the rule that you can only have 3 classes total. What I am saying is people didn't plan their characters builds, eg race/class/feat/stat/item combo from the start, they just made up a character with race/class, and took each level and adventure as it came.
We did run some 2nd ed games with 3.5 saving throw tables, they worked fine. Likewise you can use the 'Keep initiative for the entire combat' rule to save time.
Wasn't THAC0 and 1E table exactly the same thing? THAC0 was only a reference (at AC "0"). Otherwise, project your THAC0 over a couple of AC above and below "AC 0" and you get the 1E table.
This answer is a bit late, but if I recall correctly, the 1E table wasn't a regular progression (at least for some classes). So the innovation in 2E was to make the progression regular enough that you never needed to use a table.
original greyhawk gold box set (might have been 1st ed).
Yes, it was 1st Ed., as it was published in 1983.
http://www.tsrinfo.net/archive/gh/gh-wogbox.htm(Did I say that I´m a fan of the GH setting as well?)
|
I played it, I eventually stopped playing DnD during that time. A lot of the splat books turned me off to the game. But what I did love about 2e is they had a lot of very very good setting books come out during that times and some very good adventures too. 3e kinda flipped that around for me, not counting 3pp.
To be fair Vampire and other White Wolf games where huge at the time and they was a nice change of pace. Plus I just loved reading their books even if I didn't use them. they was well written books.
|
Not sure where to put this thread so I will start it here. Please be civil about the topic and to each other. Before anyone says it THACO is not that hard to caluclate. If you graduated from high school you can do the math. I ask that you please refrain from posting "Wotc stopped producing it" or anything along those lines as it adds nothing to the conversation.
So does anoyne here on the board play or played 2E? What did you enjoy and what did you not? Was their any products you disliked or liked? Rules you liked or disliked?
I played 2e back in the day and at the time I enjoyed it. 3e was a better fit for me because many of the rules in 3e were things I had houseruled into 2e. Such as ascending AC. So I still have a soft-spot for 1e & 2e AD&D.
As for my favorite product it is Creative Campaining, hands down. I still get the book out and read it from time to time.|
|
Link to New Haven Games Myth & Magic which is a 2nd edition retro ruleset that's in its beta stage and I'm quite excited to see what they come up with.
The Myth & Magic Starter set is up and available for free! Myth & Magic is to 2e what Pathfinder is to 3.5 or C&C is to 1e. The system is really nice and smooth, and level 1-10 of the 4 core is included in the free books available here:
http://www.newhavengames.com/
Think of it as the Pathfinder Beginner Box, only with more levels, no grids required, 100% less color, and free to download.
In addition there is a Kickstarter for the full Player's Guide, which in only 24 hours is well over 50% of its goal. It should be really sweet:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/705393141/myth-and-magic-players-guide- 2e-revived-and-update
I have some conversion rules made up if anyhow is curious how compatible with 2e (very very).
Cheers
|
I started out playing on 1st edition and played quite a bit of 2nd edition as well.Some of the players options could be kind of broken but the thing that always made me b+@&@&~ were the skills which were based off your attributes and never got better.Also the level limits for nonhumans which most of my dms ignored. I think a lot of us oldtimers remember it fondly becuase its where we learned to play.Sort of like your first car. Sure it was a old beat up whatever but becuase it was first it always has a place in your heart.I would only recommend it if you like more action less skill rolls.
My first table top rpg was 2nd edition, I love pathfinder, but I would still play 2nd if I could find players. Heavily house ruled of course.
I don't see what all the fuss about THAC0 is. It's really quite simple and cool system to use.
THAC0 stands for ToHitArmorClass0
THAC0 is the number the PC's(Player Characters) need to attack an AC(Armor Class). In other words the THAC0 number is used to calculate the number needed to hit the AC (via charts).
For Example: To figure a "to hit number" Subtract the AC of the target from the attackers THAC0. That's it. If the AC is a negative number, you add it to the attacker's THAC0.(Figure Strength and Weapon modifiers, subtract the total from the base THAC0 if need be also)
This is a very simple mechanic that has been blown out of proportion. I hope this helps people better understand the AD&D 2nd edition THAC0 system better. Have a great night folks.
Argument? I hear no argument, I hear a guy complaining because somebody posted some AD&D rules in a AD&D thread. It's either you get it, or you don't. All you need is the AD&D 2nd edition Player's Handbook.
The two good things about Thaco is:
1. No charts
2. Greatly improves mental arithmetic.
IMO, it was a nice compromise between 1e and its inversion (Bab and ascending). If you look at it, it seems obvious the 2e creators knew the inversion, but they had to keep the backwards compatibility with 1e.
Cheers!
PS. Myth & Magic kickstarter at 80%.
The two good things about Thaco is:
1. No charts
2. Greatly improves mental arithmetic.IMO, it was a nice compromise between 1e and its inversion (Bab and ascending). If you look at it, it seems obvious the 2e creators knew the inversion, but they had to keep the backwards compatibility with 1e.
Cheers!
PS. Myth & Magic kickstarter at 80%.
Yes there is no charts to rely on. However, I implied to state Tables since the THAC0 number is determined by PC Group/Level via Table:53.
My bad then disregard that comment if you weren't refering to me.
Argument? I hear no argument, I hear a guy complaining because somebody posted some AD&D rules in a AD&D thread. It's either you get it, or you don't. All you need is the AD&D 2nd edition Player's Handbook.I have no idea what you're talking about.
If you weren't referring to me then my bad, please disregard my comment.