I work for a place that sells Paizo products and have to spend time on paizo.com getting descriptions and info about said products and that has made me want to play PF. The down side is that when I asked about PF at my FLGS I was told that the only thing played there is D&D 4E.
I just got a little chunk of change for my birthday and I'm going to use it to buy the Core Rule Book and the Game Mastery Guide and I'm going donate plasma to get the APG.
I get the feeling that I'll end up having all the books and not having anyone to run a game with besides my family, which is ok because my wife has expressed an interest in the game and the kids will try any kind of game at least once.
That being said, does anyone have any suggestions on an AP I could run that would capture and maintain their interest and let them have fun in the game? Their ages are 8, 11, 12 and 15, All Girls, although they have grown up watching the SAW movies and Nightmare on Elm St. so blood and guts don't bother them.
Also any suggestions on how to make things easier for the younger ones to understand, would be very helpful.
Oh, and any tips for my first attempt at GM'ing would be excellent as well.
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I work for a place that sells Paizo products and have to spend time on paizo.com getting descriptions and info about said products and that has made me want to play PF. The down side is that when I asked about PF at my FLGS I was told that the only thing played there is D&D 4E.
I just got a little chunk of change for my birthday and I'm going to use it to buy the Core Rule Book and the Game Mastery Guide and I'm going donate plasma to get the APG.
I get the feeling that I'll end up having all the books and not having anyone to run a game with besides my family, which is ok because my wife has expressed an interest in the game and the kids will try any kind of game at least once.
That being said, does anyone have any suggestions on an AP I could run that would capture and maintain their interest and let them have fun in the game? Their ages are 8, 11, 12 and 15, All Girls, although they have grown up watching the SAW movies and Nightmare on Elm St. so blood and guts don't bother them.
Also any suggestions on how to make things easier for the younger ones to understand, would be very helpful.
Oh, and any tips for my first attempt at GM'ing would be excellent as well.
Don't forget the Bestiary. Actually, I would recommend NOT getting the APG until you've gotten a handle on the game. But as a GM you're going to NEED a copy of the Bestiary.
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snipDon't forget the Bestiary. Actually, I would recommend NOT getting the APG until you've gotten a handle on the game. But as a GM you're going to NEED a copy of the Bestiary.
Yes.
Extra rules (the APG) will not help anyone to learn the basics.
For you I would suggest:
-First up, read the core rulebook. Sounds obvious but I've known GMs who didn't.
-Make a bunch of characters. You're going to have to guide other people through this process so you need to know how it works. You will also pick up things that maybe didn't sink in when you read the rules.
-Use these characters to run through some combats on your own, just to see how they work in play. Use interesting terrain (cavern, inn, library, temple) and monsters from whichever AP you choose to run.
For your players the key things are:
Have a clear idea of their character's personality.
Know where to look on the character sheet.
Only have the dice they need (a d20 and their damage dice).
As for a first adventure. I would recommend some of the linked modules, rather than an AP.
Crypt of the Everflame was designed to give players a first taste of the system and the rites-of-passage story should suit younger players.
Follow this up with Masks of the Living God and City of Golden Death and you've run a fun campaign with high adventure that is fairly PG-friendly.
If your players want to carry on from there then a host of options are available, but sometimes people want to change their characters once they have got used to the rules, so that might be the time to get an AP.
Right now I would probably recommend Council of Thieves. The villains have a certain amount of angsty-teen evil and it gives good characters clear motivations, great heroics and some really memorable set-pieces and locations.
First of all, congratulations on a family that enjoys gaming!
#1) Keep it fun! Young children are not ones for deep mysteries and double talk and subterfuge. The game should orient on action!
#2) Keep it Simple! Make the game about as few dice rolls as possible. You *could* pare it down to a roll to hit, and assume each blow does average damage. Make initiative a team event: have the "party leader" roll a d20 and everyone gets that number. I would even suggest to let one of the young ones roll that: more 'easy' interaction. Have all of the players number plotted for them. Try to get the whole character (as it applies to the action game) on a 5x7 index card.
#3) Encourage interaction! Let the kids paint their own minis, draw their own portraits :) Teach them to count their movement so they are *doing* their own actions.
#4) Remember that everyone loves lootz! When the party defeats those big nasty orcs let the kids search and each of them finds something, even if it's only a smattering of coin.
#5) Use references the kids know! Have they seen LOTR? Refer to the Orcs/Uruk Hai for visualization; have they seen "The Last Legion"? (A terrible film that I love!) Use the barbarians there to illustrate the savages! lol If one of the young ones likes Dora, you could give her a Handy Haversack that responds when she sings "Back pack Back Pack!"
#6) Just Play! Kids do it naturally and we game so we can keep doing it :)
And yes, Bestiary before APG. Rules complications are meaningless when you will be playing fast and loose with the rules...
Best of luck!
GNOME
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First - welcome to the boards.
I agree with purchasing the core rule book and the bestiary as a start along with the other suggestions above.
As far as a first game to run, Hollow's Last Hope is free and is a good start. It is written for 3.5 so some conversion of the monsters is needed but you can use the conversions here to help get you started.
Have Fun!
Welcome to the boards!
A family that plays together = pure awesome!
Can't stress Core books including Bestiary enough. APG later.
Have fun.
Thank you very much for the replies, and for letting me know that I need the Beastiary more than the AGP to start out.
As for helping the kids, I was thinking about high-lighting the various things they would need to roll specific colors, and getting dice to match the colors.
The idea about playing through a couple of fight scenes is good, I think I'll try to play through a few with my wife so when we are playing she can help guide the kids through what to do and roll.
Another question I just thought of, Would I be better off to wait until the intro set is out and start with that or go ahead and get the books and just baby step my way through everything until we all have a good grasp of what how to play?
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Thank you very much for the replies, and for letting me know that I need the Bestiary more than the AGP to start out.
As for helping the kids, I was thinking about high-lighting the various things they would need to roll specific colors, and getting dice to match the colors.
The idea about playing through a couple of fight scenes is good, I think I'll try to play through a few with my wife so when we are playing she can help guide the kids through what to do and roll.
Another question I just thought of, Would I be better off to wait until the intro set is out and start with that or go ahead and get the books and just baby step my way through everything until we all have a good grasp of what how to play?
The intro set is just an idea at the moment. It doesn't have a place on the release schedule and it sounds like it won't be out until 2012.
So, unless you're incredibly patient I would try it without the intro set.
snipDon't forget the Bestiary. Actually, I would recommend NOT getting the APG until you've gotten a handle on the game. But as a GM you're going to NEED a copy of the Bestiary.Yes.
Extra rules (the APG) will not help anyone to learn the basics.
I also very much agree with this. As good as it is, the APG is overwhelmingly complex. Something to get later.
I would also note that before donating plasma to buy anything to check out the PRD (link is to your left under "links"--you may need to scroll up if you don't see it) and the $10 .pdfs to review materials. Definitely understand wanting a print copy for the table but this way you can pace things out if you need to.
As for a first adventure. I would recommend some of the linked modules, rather than an AP.
Crypt of the Everflame was designed to give players a first taste of the system and the rites-of-passage story should suit younger players.
I respectfully disagree with this suggestion. Crypt of the Everflame is designed to introduce experienced 3.5 players to the changes made to the d20 system in Pathfinder. The combat difficulty level is HIGH. I ran part of Crypt as a Pathfinder demo in my FLGS and one of the encounters--which I actually made slightly easier than written--still nearly resulted in a TPK for the new players I was introducing the system to. If the OP does decide to use Crypt I do suggest he review it very carefully and make changes if needed (which isn't necessarily a task I would want to put upon a new GM).
I am not sure what else to recommend as I only seldom use modules (and largely for demo purposes; I don't use them in home games). I also do want to jump in however before someone recommends the free "Master of the Fallen Fortress" because the purpose of that brief module is to introduce the APG classes.
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I respectfully disagree with this suggestion.<<...>>
I am not sure what else to recommend as I only seldom use modules (and largely for demo purposes; I don't use them in home games). I also do want to jump in however before someone recommends the free "Master of the Fallen Fortress" because the purpose of that brief module is to introduce the APG classes.
Not necessarily; even though it comes with APG pregens, you can play it with core rulebook characters. At least, I don't remember anything from reading it over that'd require using APG classes.
How about Hollow's Last Hope for an intro?
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I respectfully disagree with this suggestion. Crypt of the Everflame is designed to introduce experienced 3.5 players to the changes made to the d20 system in Pathfinder. The combat difficulty level is HIGH. I ran part of Crypt as a Pathfinder demo in my FLGS and one of the encounters--which I actually made slightly easier than written--still nearly resulted in a TPK for the new players I was introducing the system to. If the OP does decide to use Crypt I do suggest he review it very carefully and make changes if needed (which isn't necessarily a task I would want to put upon a new GM).
Fair enough, I have not run it before, just thought the story would suit new/young players. You don't want a Total Party Kill (TPK) in your first game.
I would suggest Hollow's Last Hope or Into the Haunted Forest if the GM was more experienced.
Just go straight for Council of Thieves, a nice heroic AP with some fun things off the bat:
Fleeing from Hellknights through the sewers, joining the resistance, picking the resistance's cool name, planning and then executing an ambush to free a prisoner, stopping a gang of thieves in the city.
You get some good non-player characters that you can use to advise your first-time players as well.
Here an idea run a few "training runs". Go to the Pathfinder SRD and print the stats for goblins, skeletons, and maybe an ogre.[Three sheets of paper are easier to handle than a whole book] Run the party againist these monsters in small groups[1 goblin/skeleton per player] until you feel comfortable. Then draw a two or three room dungeon with goblins and an ogre leader. Have them Defeat this small tribe as an intro to the game. Then run Hollow's Last Hope[Or a self written adventure]. Also if you have them, minis or character tokens help.
NPCs can help to. Have the local priest need a favor and heal the party for free if they help. A local wizard can sell them a wand of magic missle with 3D4 charges left. Give them training wheels if they need them.
If you're an inexperienced DM don't get discouraged. It's a skill, you'll get better and it gets easier. Good Luck.
Mr. Fishy taught his kids to play and they are better than veteran gamers Mr. Fishy knows.
Your kids are smart than you think so watch out...kids are crafty. Like goblins!
Every DM was inexpedience at some point. To be experienced at something means you were not always experienced at it.
Thank you very much for the replies, and for letting me know that I need the Beastiary more than the AGP to start out.
As for helping the kids, I was thinking about high-lighting the various things they would need to roll specific colors, and getting dice to match the colors.
The idea about playing through a couple of fight scenes is good, I think I'll try to play through a few with my wife so when we are playing she can help guide the kids through what to do and roll.
Another question I just thought of, Would I be better off to wait until the intro set is out and start with that or go ahead and get the books and just baby step my way through everything until we all have a good grasp of what how to play?
Well first of all. Dont wait for the intro set, like others have said it's not coming any time soon.
Second, you have a pretty big range of ages there so it's up to you to sort out what they can do. At 12 I was already playing AD&D at 15 I was comfortable running a game, so your course should entirely depend on what you know about your daughters (and your wife). My current group started 3.0 with us only having little AD&D experience, and we stumbled our way through it, there is no reason you cannot.
The key thing to do is dont let them get intimidated by the sheer bulk of the core rulebook. I have seen mroe then one player fear it's size thinking "I have to memorize all that?" Ofcourse no one has to do that and in fact almost none of us really ever do. You have to know the basics of combat and how skills work, and then the rest is just what is on the character sheet (far less intimidating then the huge tome that is the core book).
Next, I would recommend trying to decide on a theme for the game. High sees swashbuckling, dark gothic horror (given your movie choices it may appeal to them), wilderness adventures or political intrigue, then start looking for modules or adventure paths after you have determined what you think will appeal to your audience. No module is really much 'easier' then any other, so theme is more important then difficulty.
That said, I have in my experience found that roleplaying is more important to instill early then actual mechanics. You can always point to a sheet (or your wife can) to tell them what to role if they forget. But if they dont get into the idea of collective storytelling they will always feel lost at the table. Part of collective storytelling (and thus roleplaying) is speaking up. Most children wont have trouble imagining themselves as noble knights, powerful wizards or savage barbarians, but they might have trouble making choices when you present them to them.
I like to introduce new players (regardless of age) to roleplaying with some organized story telling. A game like Once upon a time can be great for this, though there is an excersize I really liked from a podcast called narrative control. I can hunt it down if you are interested, but if you can get a hold of Once Upon a Time (its a card game) it will do fine. It teaches players of any age not only to tell a story but to do so by feeding off eachother and what they are presenting.
As for running the game, it is likely the 15 and 12 year olds can at least give input into their first characters if not make them themselves, and certainly your wife can, you will likely need to give the younger ones pregenerated ones (I highly recommend simpler fighter types for ease of use).