So I was writing up some NPCs recently, both humanoid NPCs with NPC levels and a few monsters with npc levels, and I noticed something rather odd, and it's been bouncing around in my head for a bit.
The "Creating NPCs" section says nonheroic NPCs have equipment values one level lower than their heroic counterparts.
The "Gamemastering" section says npc classed characters have a CR equal to their level -2.
The monster advancement section says monstrous NPCs with class levels have equipment equal to an NPC of their CR and that NPC classes are never considered key classes and thus every 2 levels adds +1 to their CR.
So some weird things occur. The most obvious is a standard NPC classed character has too much treasure for the CR indicated in the gamemastering section. A full level's worth of CR too much.
However, what gets really freaky is when you start comparing some standard humanoid NPCs to NPCs with racial hit dice. Let's look at a 20th level human warrior versus a 20th level gnoll warrior.
The 20th level human warrior is CR 18 with gear equivalent to a CR 19 human fighter.
The 20th level gnoll warrior (2 racial HD and 18 levels of warrior) is only about CR 10 with gear equivalent to a 10th level warrior.
Now, running the numbers a bit, I found that the CR 10 gnoll is actually more accurate as far as the monster creation guidelines go for determining the NPC's CR. It has HP, attacks, damage, saves, and so forth similar to those of a CR 10 creature; including equipment.
Assuming all his ability increases went into Strength, and he purchased a +1 strength item and a +1 constitution item, a cloak of resistance +1, +1 full plate armor, takes Power Attack, and wields a +1 greatsword, the gnoll has the following basic statistics.
Gnoll Warlord (CR 10)
Initiative: +4
HP: 168 (2d8+4+18d10+36+20)
AC: 21 (+10 armor, +1 natural), touch 10, flat 21
Fort: +18 Ref: +9 Will: +9
Speed: 20ft
+1 Greatsword: +21/+16/+11/+6 (2d6+23, 18-20/x2) (average damage of 32 damage per hit with a 55% chance to hit AC 31)
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Toughness, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, Greater Vital Strike
Looking at this, his HP is a little high for a CR 10 (closer to CR 11) and his attack routine is devastating, but his AC is pretty bad for his CR range and he lacks special attacks, and is kind of slow (but a few potions could fix that). Compared to the likes of the Clay Golem or Adult White Dragon, he seems solidly firm in the CR 10 physical powerhouse.
The 20th level human warrior is pitiful for his CR with stats that mostly identical to the CR 10 gnoll warrior, except it has more gear. More gear helps a bit, but really it's not enough and also over-gearing NPCs just means when you beat the fair encounter you get an over-abundance of treasure.
So I'm thinking of using the monster advancement rules for all my NPCs; especially since I use NPC classes far more often than class levels - and have described them as being akin to nonspecific HD in the past.
Care to comment?
NPC classes are never considered key classes and thus every 2 levels adds +1 to their CR.
You are missing something here. You only add 1 CR for each 2 levels until the number of levels added is equal to or greater than the monster's base CR. After that, even non-key classes (such as NPC classes) add 1 CR for each 1 level.
NPC classes are never considered key classes and thus every 2 levels adds +1 to their CR.
You are missing something here. You only add 1 CR for each 2 levels until the number of levels added is equal to or greater than the monster's base CR. After that, even non-key classes (such as NPC classes) add 1 CR for each 1 level.
Nay. I double checked it, because I believed that was the case. However, it specifies specifically just after explaining that very thing that "NPC classes are never considered key".
EDIT: Here is the relevant piece.
Table: Monsters with Class Levels gives general guidelines regarding which core classes add directly to a monster's abilities based on its role. Classes that are marked “key” generally add 1 to a creature's CR for each level added. Classes marked with a “—” increase a creature's CR by 1 for every 2 class levels added until the number of levels added are equal to (or exceed) the creature's original CR, at which point they are treated as “key” levels (adding 1 to the creature's CR for each level added). Creatures that fall into multiple roles treat a class as key if either of its roles treat the class as key. Note that levels in NPC classes are never considered key.
I ignore all those rules, because they are a fail. Under the monster creation chart they offer numbers that allow you to gauge what a created monster's CR Should be.
That's what I go by.
I ignore all those rules, because they are a fail. Under the monster creation chart they offer numbers that allow you to gauge what a created monster's CR Should be.
That's what I go by.
Indeed. I compared both results from the rules to the Monster Creation guide, and found the monster advancement rules much closer to the proper power level for creatures. The CR 10 gnoll I posted is roughly equivalent to CR 10 creature, so I put more stock in the monster advancement method.
Warior/Expert/Adept levels are more like racial HD anyway in effect, so it makes sense to me.
I wanted to hear other people's opinions of the very weird criss-crossing of rules on the subject. I will be using the monster advancement rules for even non-monster humanoids in my games from now on. A 6th level dwarf warrior sounds like a good CR 3 monster to me. :P
I wanted to get more thoughts on it however, and see what other people think of this.