|
The rules say that a standard action and a move action in the same turn cause the move action to provoke an AOO. So if a spellcaster makes a move other than a 5-ft step and then casts a spell, the movement provokes an AOO before the caster leaves their initial square.
Okay, now follow me on the next few progressions:
1. What about in the other order? Suppose the caster casts a spell and then moves. The movement still provokes...
2. Now suppose the caster makes a Concentration check and casts without provoking, then moves. The movement still provokes...
3. Now suppose that the spell being cast was something that provided total concealment (such as invisibility). The movement would still provoke, but does the total concealment mean that the movement does NOT provoke at all?
Thanks!
The rules say that a standard action and a move action in the same turn cause the move action to provoke an AOO.
I think you may be misreading something. Could you cite your source for this?
"You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies."
|
|
The rules say that a standard action and a move action in the same turn cause the move action to provoke an AOO.I think you may be misreading something. Could you cite your source for this?
"Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action."
Withdrawing says that you must use your entire action to move -- a double move action if you have both a std AND move action available, or a single move action if all you have is a std OR move action.
So moving and doing something else would provoke.
Thanks, QS. That was my reading as well: as long as the spellcaster is invisible prior to leaving the square the wouldn't provoke. I note that being invisible grants total concealment even against creatures with blind-fight or scent, although it doesn't help against creatures with true seeing or see invisibility.
The rules say that a standard action and a move action in the same turn cause the move action to provoke an AOO.
This is.. sort of true, but using it as an axiom seems to be leading you to a little confusion, so lets straiten this out.
Its not the standard and move combo that draws attacks of opportunity. You could make an attack with a sword (a standard action) and then draw another weapon (a move action) without getting an attack of opportunity
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#figure-attacks-of-opportunit y
Normally, if you perform a standard action (such as attacking) and then moving out of a threatened square you will provoke an attack of opportunity. Its not because you're taking a standard action and a move, its because one of your actions (moving) is drawing an attack of opportunity. I think your confusion stems from the withdraw action, which is the exception. it allows you to double move and not draw an attack of opportunity (usually)
I think whats happening is you've seen a lot of people use the withdraw action to avoid attacks of opportunity and got a slightly skewed idea of whats going on.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#withdraw
So if a spellcaster makes a move other than a 5-ft step and then casts a spell, the movement provokes an AOO before the caster leaves their initial square.
The spellcaster provokes the attack of opportunity for moving. He cannot use the withdraw action (which is full round) and cast the spell (which is standard). So the caster gets an AoO for taking a non withdrawl move.
1. What about in the other order? Suppose the caster casts a spell and then moves. The movement still provokes...
... yes.. and so does the casting. If the opponent has combat reflexes they could whack the caster twice.
or if there are two opponents standing next to him, one could attack him for casting and the other could attack him for moving.
2. Now suppose the caster makes a Concentration check and casts without provoking, then moves. The movement still provokes...
Yes. Because the caster is moving without the withdraw action.
3. Now suppose that the spell being cast was something that provided total concealment (such as invisibility). The movement would still provoke, but does the total concealment mean that the movement does NOT provoke at all?
The casting would provoke if they didn't do it defensively (In pathfinder there are a lot of times when my chances of being hit are lower than my chances of making a concentration check)
The movement would then not provoke since the caster would be invisible. (unless the opponent has blindSIGHT or can see invisibility)
|
|
The rules say that a standard action and a move action in the same turn cause the move action to provoke an AOO.This is.. sort of true, but using it as an axiom seems to be leading you to a little confusion, so lets straiten this out.
Well, I suppose. What I said was "move action" and what you described was a "move-equivalent action". I don't think any phrase I could have used would've completely avoided the amibiguity except to clarify like I'm doing right now. I guess using the correct phrase didn't save me any typing. ;)
Normally, if you perform a standard action (such as attacking) and then moving out of a threatened square you will provoke an attack of opportunity. Its not because you're taking a standard action and a move, its because one of your actions (moving) is drawing an attack of opportunity. I think your confusion stems from the withdraw action, which is the exception. it allows you to double move and not draw an attack of opportunity (usually)
Please see the section I quoted in response to another reply. Withdrawing doesn't provoke because all you're doing is moving. Any other action causes movement from that first square to provoke. If you want to say it differently that's fine by me. :)
So if a spellcaster makes a move other than a 5-ft step and then casts a spell, the movement provokes an AOO before the caster leaves their initial square.The spellcaster provokes the attack of opportunity for moving. He cannot use the withdraw action (which is full round) and cast the spell (which is standard). So the caster gets an AoO for taking a non withdrawl move.
Actually, the withdraw action is like "charge" in that it can be invoked as long as you use your entire turn to move. In other words, if all you have is a standard action (staggered, readied) you can still withdraw.
Otherwise it sounds like we're in agreement. If a spellcaster casts and then moves, the *movement* doesn't provoke if the caster has total concealment at the time the movement occurs. The casting may provoke, but that's not under debate. :)
|
Only the action itself provokes AoO's, not mixing actions together.
You could do anything in the world that does NOT provoke and mix it with the above or other actions that do and you'll get wacked at.
Oh and the AoO happens just before the action that triggers it... to answer your original question.
--School of Vrock
Again, just to point out, the withdraw action does not provoke the AoO because that's part of the withdraw action, it has nothing to do with the fact that all you are doing is moving, since if you just took a double move without using withdraw your movement would provoke, as you would if you were running, or crawling, or doing anything except withdrawing or spring attacking etc.
|
The rules say that a standard action and a move action in the same turn cause the move action to provoke an AOO. So if a spellcaster makes a move other than a 5-ft step and then casts a spell, the movement provokes an AOO before the caster leaves their initial square.
Okay, now follow me on the next few progressions:
1. What about in the other order? Suppose the caster casts a spell and then moves. The movement still provokes...
Both casting and moving provoke in that case and the AoO happens when you provoke.
2. Now suppose the caster makes a Concentration check and casts without provoking, then moves. The movement still provokes...
AoO happens when you move, casting doesn't provoke in this case.
3. Now suppose that the spell being cast was something that provided total concealment (such as invisibility). The movement would still provoke, but does the total concealment mean that the movement does NOT provoke at all?
Casting would provoke but movement would not unless the creature has true sight or some way of ignoring your concealment.
I think you are a little confused, it's not that standard + movement causes an AoO, it's that movement out of a creatures threatened area provokes. The exceptions to this is when you make a 5' step or when you make a withdraw action (in which case you can't act otherwise). In some cases like spellcasting you actually provoke 2 attacks in a single round. Unless the enemy has combat reflexes he can only get one attack of opportunity though.
|
|
I think you are a little confused, it's not that standard + movement causes an AoO, it's that movement out of a creatures threatened area provokes.
Correct. I understand that. :)
The exceptions to this is when you make a 5' step or when you make a withdraw action (in which case you can't act otherwise).
Correct. And a withdraw action essentially means a double move with no other actions in the round.
So doing something as a standard action (like casting, using a magic item, or anything else) and then moving will provoke because the only action the creature can take that *doesn't* provoke is a withdraw (ie. double move).
And yes, I know that a withdraw action might be a single move if the creature only has a single move-equivalent action available such as being staggered or readied. (I said that above, but if I don't say it again someone will want to correct me. Again. :))
To be clear using the withdraw action can provoke.
It's just the first square (or 5 feet) of movement does not provoke while withdrawing... if the threatening creature has enough reach to hit you beyond the first square (say you are toe to toe with a troll and withdraw) then they can take an AoO for the second square you are leaving that provokes.