Have you tested Witch in Kingmaker?


Kingmaker


One of my players have created a Witch with Hex Evil Eyes and Slumber.

It is terrible against animals/fighter:
1st round: Hex Evil Eyes to lessen save (Evil Eyes is optional...)
2nd/3th round: Hex Slumber followed by Coup-de-grâce

In Kingmaker, there are many monster/animals which are "alone" and many fights are random encounters with often one animal/fighting monster.
I fear my game will be "broken" and uninteresting...

Did you test the Witch?

Sczarni

In a word: Yes.

We had a witch from 3rd level through to about 6th level, going most of the way through Stolen Land and Rivers Run Red.

The trick to dealing with the Witch is to not sweat the single-beast encounters, or if you really MUST have every fight be a nail-biter-edge-of-the-seat gripper give them all Iron Will and charge the Witch at first opportunity.

Really, the only "solo" monsters in the first book are quite easily solo-able by most classes, if optimized to do so. (Whiptail Centipede and Giant Tick are notable exceptions, as is the Stag Lord and his Lieutenants).

I had both a Witch and an Infernal-Bloodline Sorcerer in my group, both capable of ending fights in one good round. They were also both very squishy and easily perforated by arrows.

That's the tradeoff, though - power at the expense of survivability.

Another option is to simply double the number of all single-monster mobs, and apply the Young template to them. That'll make it less likely to go down in one round from one character, but will make it more likely for those Save-or-Die spells landing in the first place.

Not to worry, though, Kressel, Stag Lord, Tickleback, Beaky, any decent-CR bear encounters, and the SL's Lieutenants will all still pose a viable threat. And, if you want, add in a Bard to the SL's fort to give all those bandits another +1/+1 to hit with their longbows, and puncture the offending Save-or-Die caster with arrows.

It's not as big a problem as it seems, even if the bosses go down in one or two rounds. The players will still have fun, especially if you include mooks whenever you want to ensure there's a FIGHT!, fight.


I have a player with a Witch in my campaign and I don't find her to be OP at all. She did drop a couple trolls with sleep spells, but we just ran the Vordakai encounter in book 3 and he wasn't phased by her at all.

As the post above me states - you can balance things as you see fit to make for challenging and fun encounters.


I have a Witch with those same 2 Hexes, just finished Book I with no real issues from slumber. As I recall, they've been able to Coup de Grace twice (always a good feeling for the group) and twice a creature was awakened by an ally. Others awoke after the duration expired and some made their save.

Some were immune (Vermin, Undead) like the centipedes and the tick.

Also Constructs, Oozes & Plants are immune and I used Plants and Oozes as expanded random encounters.


I am playing a witch right now in Kingmaker and after a discussion with my DM we've decided to retire her. There are two different situations. In combats with things that are subject to mind affecting effects then she dominates combat first by debuffing and then by dominating/sleeping everything.

The other situation is where she is faced with swarms, undead, plants etc. In those fights she blasts away with her wand of lighting bolts and really doesn't do anything overly productive.

The first is annoying to the DM and the second is annoying to me.We already have a well balanced party so I am bringing in a summoner to provide more support for our beleaguered barbarian up front.

Liberty's Edge

There's a Witch in the group I'm running, but she hasn't taken Slumber (yet). Honestly, even just a Sleep spell can create similar problems as very few of the "solo enemy" encounters have more than 4 hit dice. The Bard in my group DOES have Sleep, and in four sessions she's ended at least two fights before they really began. Any kind of sleep effect or other decent battlefield control is powerful at low levels. Between the group's Druid dropping an Entangle and the Bard's Sleep they *cleaned up* at Thorn River, an encounter I was sure would have thim limping back to Oleg's.

On a side note, based on my game so far, Cavaliers do quite well in the first adventure as well. Numerous opportunities to be mounted, and plenty of room to charge with a lance = lots of one-shotted beasties. Of course, I'm going to relish watching him deal with the Mite lair in the near future.


Defraeter wrote:

One of my players have created a Witch with Hex Evil Eyes and Slumber.

It is terrible against animals/fighter:
1st round: Hex Evil Eyes to lessen save (Evil Eyes is optional...)
2nd/3th round: Hex Slumber followed by Coup-de-grâce

In Kingmaker, there are many monster/animals which are "alone" and many fights are random encounters with often one animal/fighting monster.
I fear my game will be "broken" and uninteresting...

Did you test the Witch?

Yes, I have a Witch 8/Sorcerer 1 in my game right now. She also has a mental attribute of 22. There are a few plants, swarms, and occasional undead. Against these the witch is almost useless, but everything else she has great potential against.

I give all my fighters iron will, and at higher levels you should be able to save more. Also keep in mind that the witch has to be within 30 ft, which is not safe, and also that she only gets once chance per creature with sleep. If the monsters makes the save it is immune to sleep from that witch for 24 hours. If it fails and gets woken up it is also immune for 24 hours. The witch's hexes are powerful, but the spell selection is lacking. In short I find the witch to be powerful, but not broken.
My player has Evil Eye, Cackle, Flight, Misfortune, Sleep, and maybe one more.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Orannis wrote:
On a side note, based on my game so far, Cavaliers do quite well in the first adventure as well. Numerous opportunities to be mounted, and plenty of room to charge with a lance = lots of one-shotted beasties. Of course, I'm going to relish watching him deal with the Mite lair in the near future.

I'm currently running homebrew material between books 1 & 2. However, the Cavalier in my party truly was dominant throughout book 1. Spirited Charge + Rideby Attack in open areas against solos is truly devistating. And he doesn't even really have armor to speak of.

The only downside is that while he's doing damage, he's also not really defending the rest of his party, so sometimes the monsters have been able to get a few good licks at the party's weak spots before he slaughters it.

Scarab Sages

A witch in Kingmaker should be less of an impact than in a regular game. Kingmaker is built to have like 1-2 encounters a day for the early part of the AP, where you are doing a lot of exploring. As someone pointed out, a sleep spell is just as powerful an attack, and at will vs # of spells isn't an issue in single encounter a day settings. By the time the witch hits 9-10, there are better things to do than sleep everything, so the longer the games goes on, the less potent it will seem. Its just a bit of a zap gun in the early goings, so it jumps out as an issue that is going to get worse over time. In my experience, its not.

Erik Freund wrote:
I'm currently running homebrew material between books 1 & 2. However, the Cavalier in my party truly was dominant throughout book 1. Spirited Charge + Rideby Attack in open areas against solos is truly devistating. And he doesn't even really have armor to speak of.

This...mounted builds should be very powerful early on in a Kingmaker setting. As a GM, I would be worried more about all your casters dumping their entire arsenal with impunity on every encounter and mounted characters obliterating tough creatures than the balance of the sleep hex.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've had something of a witch-theme in my campaign since the tail-end of KM1 when one character decided to multiclass into Witch & persuaded the rest of the group to make their new kingdom "Witch-friendly." Because of that we have two Witch PCs (one Alchemist 3/Witch 3, one Ranger 2/Witch 1) and a mess of npcs as part of court & allies (the Duke is a Venerable Witch 10, Treasurer a Aristocrat 3/Witch 1, and the General an Antipaladin 2/Oracle of Battle 1/Witch 3). Of all of them, only the Treasurer has taken the Sleep hex, and it rarely works.

I have yet to find the Witch-class any more unbalanced than any other class - optimal builds will always skew the odds, and if a PC sets their character up with a good high stat to make sure the save DC is high, of course their Sleep (or anything else) will be difficult to overcome. Until they come up with a better way to nerf player ingenuity I don't think there's much to be done.


Thank you very much for your answers!!!!

You have enlightened me on many points that i couldn't have without many playing time.

I will warn my "witch-player" to build his PC not just on "mind-affecting" effect if he want to keep her witch competitive.

...and, i will build encounters avoiding alone monsters... and much more...

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