What feats should a wizard get?


Advice

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I am creating an air elementalist wizard, who get levitation at will as a spell-like ability. My group is only using the released pathfinder books and I'm wondering what feats I should go with. I'm thinking Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Wands, but I don't know what else to get. I'm a 6th level human wizard, and I could use whatever advice people are willin to give.


Improved Initiative, and Toughness. Last one not so sure, what spells do you plan to use the most often?


Jiraiya22 wrote:
I am creating an air elementalist wizard, who get levitation at will as a spell-like ability. My group is only using the released pathfinder books and I'm wondering what feats I should go with. I'm thinking Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Wands, but I don't know what else to get. I'm a 6th level human wizard, and I could use whatever advice people are willin to give.

Toughness: you can never have too many hit points, especially as a Wizard.

Improved Initiative: going first or at least as early as possible in combat is very important for a wizard who has alot of spells that hurt allies as much as enemies. Even if you avoid taking such spells, the earlier you can take an enemy out of the fight, the better.

Combat Casting: this helps alot at low levels, when the concentration check DCs are horribly high compared to your level + int mod. bonus. It also helps escape from grapples, which are a wizard's worst bane.

Spell Focus: it's only a +1 DC, but every bit helps.

Spell Penetration: Spell Resistance is like an enemy's "AC" against your spells, and this gives you a +2 "to hit". Very important, especially at mid to high levels when it becomes a very common monster trait.

Item Creation Feats: you get bonus feats as a wizard, and you can only spend them on metamagic feats, item creation feats, or spell mastery.

Personally, I never take metamagic feats as a wizard. The whole point to metamagics is to give you flexibility when you need it, but since wizards have to choose whether or not to use the metamagic feat when they prepare the spell, it greatly limits their usefulness. How do I know I'm going to need a Silent spell later in the day? I either prepare a bunch of spells that way and potentially waste higher spell slots, or I end up not preparing them but needing them. Also, wizards don't get much benefit from empower, mazimize, heighten, etc. because they can just learn a higher level spell that does more damage, has a higher DC (and a nastier effect), etc. Just get metamagic rods! They will serve you far better than the feats themselves ever will.

As for spell mastery, this is extremely situational. Unless your DM enjoys taking away your spellbook (and if he does, either find a new DM or don't play a wizard), this feat is of no use. So that leaves item creation feats. This is where the money's at (pun intended). Craft Wondrous Item is by far the best choice, since it covers the largest number of items, including important things like blessed books, amulets of natural armor, cloaks of resistance, headbands of intellect, etc etc etc.

I don't ever take craft wand as a wizard. The save DCs and caster level are the bare minimum for the spell in question (unless you want to pay a ton of money making the wand a higher caster level than the minimum), so they're pitiful. A few spells get around this by not having saving throws or not caring about caster level, like endure elements or silent image, but you can just buy those or make a few scrolls.

Craft arms and armor isn't very useful for the wizard himself (aside from making a mithral buckler +5), but your fellow party members will love you and the discounts you can provide.

Craft rod is okay, but I'd take forge ring instead. Everyone needs rings of protection, and you can't make metamagic rods (which are pretty much the only rods you'll want as a wizard) unless you know the metamagic feats yourself, and as I've already explained, those are very poor feats for a wizard. There are just too few rods a wizard would want to make, but by all means, if you have an extra feat slot and can't think of what to do with it, go ahead and take it.

Craft Staff is great because staffs use your caster level and save DCs, though I'd wait until a bit higher level to get this feat, as they tend to be quite expensive.

I Hope this helps.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
jlord wrote:
Improved Initiative, and Toughness. Last one not so sure, what spells do you plan to use the most often?

Toughness is a horrible feat for a Wizard. Spell Focus is what you want at level 1.


Gorbacz wrote:
jlord wrote:
Improved Initiative, and Toughness. Last one not so sure, what spells do you plan to use the most often?
Toughness is a horrible feat for a Wizard. Spell Focus is what you want at level 1.

Depending on the game, no it isn't. It's not what I'd pick at low levels but there have beena lot of times as a wizard I wished I had more HP.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
meatrace wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
jlord wrote:
Improved Initiative, and Toughness. Last one not so sure, what spells do you plan to use the most often?
Toughness is a horrible feat for a Wizard. Spell Focus is what you want at level 1.
Depending on the game, no it isn't. It's not what I'd pick at low levels but there have beena lot of times as a wizard I wished I had more HP.

YMMV, but I hold to the belief that you maximize your strengths, not minimize your weaknesses.


Gorbacz wrote:
meatrace wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
jlord wrote:
Improved Initiative, and Toughness. Last one not so sure, what spells do you plan to use the most often?
Toughness is a horrible feat for a Wizard. Spell Focus is what you want at level 1.
Depending on the game, no it isn't. It's not what I'd pick at low levels but there have beena lot of times as a wizard I wished I had more HP.
YMMV, but I hold to the belief that you maximize your strengths, not minimize your weaknesses.

So, as a fighter you wouldn't take Iron Will?

GOTCHA!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
meatrace wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
meatrace wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
jlord wrote:
Improved Initiative, and Toughness. Last one not so sure, what spells do you plan to use the most often?
Toughness is a horrible feat for a Wizard. Spell Focus is what you want at level 1.
Depending on the game, no it isn't. It's not what I'd pick at low levels but there have beena lot of times as a wizard I wished I had more HP.
YMMV, but I hold to the belief that you maximize your strengths, not minimize your weaknesses.

So, as a fighter you wouldn't take Iron Will?

GOTCHA!

Would you take Lightning Reflexes as a Wizard ? Like, honestly ?

I would take IW for a Fighter, because survivalability is a strength for a Fighter. Also, he has a truckload of feats to blow on fancy stuff, unlike the Wizard.


Gorbacz wrote:


Would you take Lightning Reflexes as a Wizard ? Like, honestly ?

I would take IW for a Fighter, because survivalability is a strength for a Fighter. Also, he has a truckload of feats to blow on fancy stuff, unlike the Wizard.

Lightning reflexes? No. Toughness? Yes. Especially as an evoker or blaster archetype who is likely to eventually garner enemy attention. More HP is just always good. I know the point is never to be in the fray to begin with, but when s~#$ hits the fan I'd rather be able to take a hit than crumple, regardless of class.

If hit points weren't important why don't I see any optimizers dumping Con down to 7 in their 15 point wizard builds?

It's like this, usually my builds reach critical mass around level 7 or 8 and I've run out of optimal feat choices by 12 or so. That's when I start sinking feats into toughness, maybe another spell focus.I suppose with the new APG stuff there's never a feat spared for a caster any longer.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
meatrace wrote:


I suppose with the new APG stuff there's never a feat spared for a caster any longer.

That's the point, APG metamagic feats are so sweet that you're hard pressed for sparing feat slots for secondary stuff.


Gorbacz wrote:
meatrace wrote:


I suppose with the new APG stuff there's never a feat spared for a caster any longer.
That's the point, APG metamagic feats are so sweet that you're hard pressed for sparing feat slots for secondary stuff.

Actually I think the metamagic feats are pretty craptacular. Metamagic in general aren't too hot. I mean...I'll just buy the rod. I meant stuff like Spell Perfection and Spell Expertise.


meatrace wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
meatrace wrote:


I suppose with the new APG stuff there's never a feat spared for a caster any longer.
That's the point, APG metamagic feats are so sweet that you're hard pressed for sparing feat slots for secondary stuff.
Actually I think the metamagic feats are pretty craptacular. Metamagic in general aren't too hot. I mean...I'll just buy the rod. I meant stuff like Spell Perfection and Spell Expertise.

Where do you see spell expertise? It's not in my book


Jiraiya22 wrote:
meatrace wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
meatrace wrote:


I suppose with the new APG stuff there's never a feat spared for a caster any longer.
That's the point, APG metamagic feats are so sweet that you're hard pressed for sparing feat slots for secondary stuff.
Actually I think the metamagic feats are pretty craptacular. Metamagic in general aren't too hot. I mean...I'll just buy the rod. I meant stuff like Spell Perfection and Spell Expertise.
Where do you see spell expertise? It's not in my book

It's two feats, Minor Spell Expertise and Major Spell Expertise. minor is meh, only a 1st level spell as a SLA 2/day, but Major is up to a 5th level spell as a SLA. Take a couple spells you never want to be without and always make sure you can use them. For my money I'd take Vanish and Teleport.


When it comes to getting more hit points, I much prefer Charm Person to Toughness.

I mean, yes, you need more hit points. But whoever said they had to be -your- hit points?


Consider,

A 1st level Wizard gets 6 hit points from his class. Let's assume he gets +2 from Con and that he takes his favored class bonus in hit points for an additional +1. So, he has a total of 9 hit points. A fighter with a 17 Str hits him with a long sword. The fighter does 7.5 points of damage on average.
The wizard is likely to survive one melee hit, but not likely to survive two.
Let's assume he takes Toughness. That gives him 12 hit points. He's likely to survive one melee hit, but unlikely to survive two.
Toughness isn't worth the cost.


LilithsThrall wrote:

Consider,

A 1st level Wizard gets 6 hit points from his class. Let's assume he gets +2 from Con and that he takes his favored class bonus in hit points for an additional +1. So, he has a total of 9 hit points. A fighter with a 17 Str hits him with a long sword. The fighter does 7.5 points of damage on average.
The wizard is likely to survive one melee hit, but not likely to survive two.
Let's assume he takes Toughness. That gives him 12 hit points. He's likely to survive one melee hit, but unlikely to survive two.
Toughness isn't worth the cost.

Eh, I would argue that. Toughness gives the Wizard a chance to survive to high enough levels that he can just wiggle his nose and the enemy Fighter is suddenly plunging down a portal into the heart of the Abyss. While to maximise your strengths is always important, being able to cover your own ass is just as important.

Also, most Wizards I know end up putting that bonus point into Skill Ranks, simply to bump up their Knowledge skills or into cross-class abilities. Hell, most of the people I play with put it into Skill Ranks simply to take advantage of Paizo's take on cross-class skills.

Let's look at that Wizard at 5th level, with Toughness. He'd have, roughly, 33 hit points. Not exactly a staggering amount, but for a Wizard without Toughness, that's a mere 5 hit-point difference, but that means the Wizard can take 4 Longswords to the face and still stagger away at the end of it all, whereas a Wizard without Toughness could only take 3, the 4th would likely kill him on the spot.

Toughness for a Fighter? Not such a hot idea. The Class could certainly use more hit-points given you're going to get stabbed, shot, clubbed, run over, dropped, burned, frozen, shocked, cut up, knocked down and all other variety of delightful injuries, but the Fighter will likely have high constitution anyway and the D10 hit-dice. A 5th level Fighter with Con 16 (+1 at 4th level) would have 47 hit-points. Not that much higher than the Toughness Wizard's 33, a difference of 14 hit-points. Without Toughness that would be a a difference of 47 to 28, a difference of 19 hit-points.

Going even Higher level, the Wizard, and other classes such as the Bard, Rogue and Sorcerer also gain greater benefit from Toughness than higher HD Classes or ones with access to plentiful healing magic.

Toughness is a good choice for a Cautious Wizard, specifically one who is willing to hedge his bets both ways. The other low-level feat I would check out for is a rather odd one, but Fleet also works well for the Wizard, specifically the smaller races such as Halfling, Gnome and Dwarf. While once you gain access to magical boots this become pretty much nil and void, Fleet isn't written as an enhancement to your base speed, meaning that a Halfling Wizard with Fleet and Boots of Springing and Striding can outrun most other Humanoids. That can mean getting the distance to fire off that spell and staying out of melee range or getting to cover instead of spending a round praying that the dice favour you and all those Orc archers miss.

Dodge is also a nice 'starter' feat for the Wizard, given you're likely to have Dexterity higher than Strength, this can help bump up your AC and possibly replace Toughness altogether.

I'll have to dig up the manual and have a quick re-read of the feats (And please note I don't have access to the Advanced Guide yet, saving up for it >.>) but those are some of the solid choices I've seen in play over the years in strait-from-the-book Games from both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dodge is a horrible choice, because Mirror Image and Blink are your defenses against attempts to stab your face.

Fleet is a horrible choice because of, duh, zillion movement spells the Wizard has, starting with exp. retreat and ending with fly.

Shadow Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:

Dodge is a horrible choice, because Mirror Image and Blink are your defenses against attempts to stab your face.

Fleet is a horrible choice because of, duh, zillion movement spells the Wizard has, starting with exp. retreat and ending with fly.

I disagree with Gorbacz's take on toughness, but he's dead on with fleet and dodge. Wizards get plenty of ways to augment movement; spending a feat on a movement ability is just silly. As for dodge, eventually the wizard AC will be so low in comparison to the rest of the party/the BAB of opponents you're facing, that there's little that's going to save him from getting hit. Sure at level one, mage armor, shield, and their dex bonus put them into the respectable range, but those bonuses never get enhanced at higher levels. A mage's best defense are going to be in their spells that prevent them from being targeted, or cause huge miss chances.


Gorbacz wrote:

Dodge is a horrible choice, because Mirror Image and Blink are your defenses against attempts to stab your face.

Fleet is a horrible choice because of, duh, zillion movement spells the Wizard has, starting with exp. retreat and ending with fly.

Ah, but the Wizard has got to get to a high enough level to learn those spells in the first place. Maybe that's what encourages the Wizard to learn them in the first place! "There has got to be a better way to do this!"

These are STARTING feats. The emphasis I find on Starting Feats is getting the character to survive long enough to start getting magical items to cover their weaknesses and increase their strengths.

And I did mention Fleet was an odd choice, but in a pinch a clever Wizard can use it to gain position behind the other party members in the event of an ambush or other f.u.b.a.r. event in the game. Just because you can do something better at higher levels doesn't mean you can't take a similar route at the lower levels to get you there.

Ideally, a Wizard who was interested in high mobility and the ability to scoot around the battlefield without wasting a spell could focus on Skill Focus (Ride) and a Military Saddle on something like a Gryphon, which provides a nice little bit of aggression to the mount role and doubles as a protector in a pinch, or could simply buy boots or cloaks that provide the various magical abilities, but that drifts from the Op's request.

Perhaps you would like to offer some feats the Op could use, Gorbacz?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spell Focus, Combat Casting.


Gorbacz wrote:
Spell Focus, Combat Casting.

Solid choices, and Combat Casting is useful up till the mid teens when, let's face it if something CR 15+ grapples your caster, you're dead if you don't get a teleport or 'phasing' spell off. Spell Focus is great, and when you get Greater Spell Focus you're really making life hell for most targets.

Actually, given the Op has a 'Wind Element' caster, would Augment Summoning with Air Elementals be a good idea? Or overall would a caster be better with just strait up higher DCs all around?

On one hand, we've got Air Elementals which are an absolute nightmare to deal with, given their perfect flight, ability to move, attack and then complete their move thanks to the Flyby Feat and their slams and Damage Reduction are nothing to sneeze about.

On the other, being able to apply a +1 (later +2) to the Save DC of just about every g@&#&&n spell of a certain school, depending upon the school you cast, can make the Wizard even more potent than he already is.


If you're small, Defensive Combat Training. Com Cast and SF are good too. Imp Init is another almost no brainer. And Spell Mastery, so you can always prep SOME spells.


I'm not a big fan of toughness. Yes it can improve low level survival rates but honestly you can generally make do with the +1 HP from favored class and +1 HP from a 12 Con (you didn't dump con did you?). Hide behind the meat shields (conjured or other party members) until you can reliable have good defenses from pesky melee combatants.

Spell Focus is good for most of the schools. I think if you focus on buffing and summoning Spell Focus isn't absolutely critical. Summoners generally want augment summoning but meat shields are meat shields.

Imp Init is generally a solid feat. Even if Pathfinder has reduced the init race nature of mid to high-level play you generally want to go early rather than late.

Combat Casting is nice when you eventually get stuck in vs a bunch of sticky foes. Even if it's just used to Dimension Door out of there.

DCT is useful when your DM likes grappling you all the time.

In some campaigns (like a Underdark focused campaign) the Spell Penetration feats would help vs SR possessing foes but that's heavily dependent on play style. However if you hear the words "Drow Campaign" go for this feat early.


I'm currently playing a Universalist wizard with a bonded weapon (I know - not optimized, but a heck of a lot of fun).

At 8th level my feats are:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Craft Arms/Armour
Craft Wondrous Item
Empower Spell

with a view of taking the following by 13th level:
Skill focus (Knowledge:History)
Spell Penetration
Quicken Spell
Arcane Armour Training
Greater Spell Penetration

As a part-time blaster (and thrower of my +1 spellstoring weapon) point blank shot and precise shot were great at lower levels. They also help quite a bit now as I throw up my pair of 6d6+1 scorching rays that I really don't want to have miss.

The craft feats have also been well worth it as I can make things for the rest of the party (at a small profit to myself, of course). As long as your DM is going to give you time to craft, this is great. I think my character has close to double the wealth by level worth of useful magic items thanks to these.

As others have mentioned the metamagic has been ho-hum and although empowered spells are nice, I may have chosen something else in retrospect and forked out the money for rods. On the other hand, at 10 level, I can start applying it for free to spells I have memorized so I kind of need at least one decent metamagic feat.

The skill focus is just to qualify for loremaster and spell penetration will certainly come in handy as we get to the 10-12 level arena where SR is much more common.

The arcane armour training means I can wear a magical mithril chain shirt which will give me +4 AC compared to the equivalently priced bracers with no downside.

I should point out that these feats were chosen before I had my copy of the APG and are subject to change without notice :)


Tem wrote:

Quicken Spell

Arcane Armour Training

Keep in mind that using either of these consumes your swift action for a round. In other words, if you want to use a quickened spell and you're wearing armor, you're dealing with arcane spell failure that round because you won't then have a swift action to lower your arcane spell failure by 10% via arcane armor training.


Dire Mongoose wrote:
Tem wrote:

Quicken Spell

Arcane Armour Training
Keep in mind that using either of these consumes your swift action for a round. In other words, if you want to use a quickened spell and you're wearing armor, you're dealing with arcane spell failure that round because you won't then have a swift action to lower your arcane spell failure by 10% via arcane armor training.

Arcane Armor Training jsut seems like a badly constructed feat from the get go. Combined with the idea that Stoneskin or numerous other protective spells are a FAR better choice than physical armor for a caster at mid to high levels. But hey, your 'toon, your call :)


Those are both good points. Almost every campaign I've played in has ended before we got that high a level so it has never been an issue. I wasn't even planning on taking the feat until 11th level but I may re-evaluate when I get there. I've still got three levels to think about it.

Scarab Sages

Questions like these are highly dependent on the DM and the campaign also

As stated before..

If your DM tends to target the player who is the most trouble for him (you, as a wizard) despite the fact that you've put yourself in as safe a place as possible.... It'd be worth taking feats like combat casting, Defensive combat training, and maybe (only if your sold on the idea that more hit points is worth it... which I'm not) toughness.

If he plays the monsters in a way where you will be able to use your positioning skills to remain out of combat and allow you to really focus on damage, control, debuff, or buffing then you should probably (this is what I normally do) go straight for spell focus, maybe even greater spell focus, spell penetration, maybe even greater spell penetration, or things like elemental focus, maybe even greater elemental focus, preferred spell, or if you prefer metamagic feats.

If you wanna specialize some feats that are good are spell focus, greater spell focus, elemental focus, greater elemental focus, tenacious transmutation, diviner's delving, augment summoning, improved counter spell, crafting feats.

in other words... it depends

I would get elemental focus for your wizard and possibly some metamagic feats a little later in the game.


"Not in the head" Mr. Fishy has a earth wizard in his game. Mr. Uses his acid cloud like crazy. Elemental focus is good if you cast spells from one element. Mr. Fishy thinks there's a element swap metamagic feat. That in combination with elemental focus would be brutal.

It depends on the group.


A lot of these suggestions for feats have been assuming that I will be in melee combat with creatures on the ground. I have levitate as an at will power and vanish as a 1st-level spell. When I have enough head room, my 1st turn plan of action is to disappear and then get 40 or so feet above my enemies heads before I start the spell-slinging. For most melee opponents, this largely negates their effectiveness. For everything else, ranged attackers, other spell-slingers, and other flyers, I need help on defense. I am a blaster caster, I focus on evocation spells and spells that make my enemies cry for mercy like a reached ghoul touch, so I'm not planning on going the Augment Summoning route. Spell focus certainly seems worth it, but how about elemental focus? Is it worth it to get both elemental focus and the elemental spell metamagic to give my elemental evocations an extra +1 DR? What defensive feats are really necessary assuming I'll be above most of the enemies that would warrant their use?


LilithsThrall wrote:

Consider,

A 1st level Wizard gets 6 hit points from his class. Let's assume he gets +2 from Con and that he takes his favored class bonus in hit points for an additional +1. So, he has a total of 9 hit points. A fighter with a 17 Str hits him with a long sword. The fighter does 7.5 points of damage on average.
The wizard is likely to survive one melee hit, but not likely to survive two.
Let's assume he takes Toughness. That gives him 12 hit points. He's likely to survive one melee hit, but unlikely to survive two.
Toughness isn't worth the cost.

I see where you're coming from, but since there's no aggro mechanic, and most threats to a wizard aren't melee threats to begin with (archers, other spellcasters, etc) a fighter standing by you often nets you 0.

And that's I guess the other place I was coming from. I usually use my favored class bonus for skills, since I like lots and lots of skills and play wizards as skill-monkeys. There is no feat that gives you +1 skill point per level or I'd take that instead. Or also. Heh.


LilithsThrall wrote:

Consider,

A 1st level Wizard gets 6 hit points from his class. Let's assume he gets +2 from Con and that he takes his favored class bonus in hit points for an additional +1. So, he has a total of 9 hit points. A fighter with a 17 Str hits him with a long sword. The fighter does 7.5 points of damage on average.
The wizard is likely to survive one melee hit, but not likely to survive two.
Let's assume he takes Toughness. That gives him 12 hit points. He's likely to survive one melee hit, but unlikely to survive two.
Toughness isn't worth the cost.

Hang on a second. The fighter is doing d8+3 damage, right? Without criticals we get:

Case 1: Wizard has 9 hp

Chance of dying from one hit: 37.5%
Chance of surviving at least 2 hits: 1.5625%

Case 2: Wizard has 12 hp

Chance of dying from one hit: 0%
Chance of surviving at least 2 hits: 15.625%

Now, I'm not a fan of taking toughness as a wizard either, but there is certainly a good case for it.

Scarab Sages

Jiraiya22 wrote:
A lot of these suggestions for feats have been assuming that I will be in melee combat with creatures on the ground. I have levitate as an at will power and vanish as a 1st-level spell. When I have enough head room, my 1st turn plan of action is to disappear and then get 40 or so feet above my enemies heads before I start the spell-slinging. For most melee opponents, this largely negates their effectiveness. For everything else, ranged attackers, other spell-slingers, and other flyers, I need help on defense. I am a blaster caster, I focus on evocation spells and spells that make my enemies cry for mercy like a reached ghoul touch, so I'm not planning on going the Augment Summoning route. Spell focus certainly seems worth it, but how about elemental focus? Is it worth it to get both elemental focus and the elemental spell metamagic to give my elemental evocations an extra +1 DR? What defensive feats are really necessary assuming I'll be above most of the enemies that would warrant their use?

I'm a DM and after maybe a single session or two I would begin always having enemies that can affect targets that were in the air.... so you should consider things that increase resistance to spells and ranged attacks... like iron will, lightning reflex, great fortitude. you might also be wary of flying opponents. They can be really nasty.


Jiraiya22 wrote:
A lot of these suggestions for feats have been assuming that I will be in melee combat with creatures on the ground.

Well, I hope you've got both improved initiative and a good perception score, otherwise you can't count on being ready for every attack.

Also, there are these new things called hallways. Usually 10 feet tall.

And may the gods help you when you encounter foes with imp. grapple or the step-up ability.


Feats I really like for wizards:
Extend spell (the one metamagic feat I really like at low-mid levels)
Quicken spell (I like this at medium-high levels, where the rod just isn't enough quickening)
Spell focus (conjuration)
Augment summoning (I really really like this feat)
Improved initiative (you're probably the most initiative dependent class, except possibly the rogue)
Toughness---I usually add favored class to HP also. My experience is that this makes you a lot more survivable---it's basically like having 2 points more of constitution with a little front-loading.
Defensive combat training---this one was made for wizards and sorcs. They derive the most benefit from it of any class--leading to the unusual state at medium/high levels that 3/4 BAB classes are usually the easiest to do manuevers on, because almost all the 1/2 BAB types have DCT.
Craft wondrous item---totally insane flexibility here, IMO several of the lesser taken craft feats ought to be combined (craft rod/staff/wand anyone---I bet if I combined those 3 feats my players STILL wouldn't take it often), as in my experience, craft wondrous and craft arms/armor are taken far and away more than any other type
Combat casting---obviously blowing defensive casting rolls hurts


Improved grapple and step up still assume I'd be in melee range to begin with, as opposed to 30 feet in the air being pulled around by my air elemental familiar or stealthing along the ceiling of the 10-foot tall hallway. Thank you, for the suggestion on taking improved initiative, that was the point of this thread, figuring out what feats would fill out this build. If you've got any more helpful suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them.


Jiraiya22 wrote:
Improved grapple and step up still assume I'd be in melee range to begin with

Well, I think you'll be in melee more than you do. I'll leave it at that.

This also depends some on the size of your party. It's easier to avoid melee when there are 2-3 people up front, as opposed to just one.
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For feats: I'd cast another vote for Toughness. You can counter with a higher Con or the False Life spell too, but hit points are ALWAYS good.

For the same reason, combat casting, and around level 10; defensive combat training (**watch your DM on this. If by level 10, you've never been grappled/bull rushed/whatever; it's unlikely to start now. If you need this, it will be clear**)

As for combat feats, it depends on where you are going with spells...You need either point blank and precise shot, so that you can use spells like scorching ray; or you need spell focus and elemental focus, so that you can use spells like lightning bolt.

Yes, you can do both eventually, but it does take a while.
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And I would avoid fleet with all your power. Buy a scroll of expeditious retreat and call it a day.


Anything that will help improve the roleplay experience, and with which you will have the most fun.


The Crimson Jester, Rogue Lord wrote:
Anything that will help improve the roleplay experience, and with which you will have the most fun.

LOLZ good one :)


Tem wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:

Consider,

A 1st level Wizard gets 6 hit points from his class. Let's assume he gets +2 from Con and that he takes his favored class bonus in hit points for an additional +1. So, he has a total of 9 hit points. A fighter with a 17 Str hits him with a long sword. The fighter does 7.5 points of damage on average.
The wizard is likely to survive one melee hit, but not likely to survive two.
Let's assume he takes Toughness. That gives him 12 hit points. He's likely to survive one melee hit, but unlikely to survive two.
Toughness isn't worth the cost.

Hang on a second. The fighter is doing d8+3 damage, right? Without criticals we get:

Case 1: Wizard has 9 hp

Chance of dying from one hit: 37.5%
Chance of surviving at least 2 hits: 1.5625%

Case 2: Wizard has 12 hp

Chance of dying from one hit: 0%
Chance of surviving at least 2 hits: 15.625%

Now, I'm not a fan of taking toughness as a wizard either, but there is certainly a good case for it.

Chance of charming a 1st level Fighter to take that hit for you instead.

Much better.


Jiraiya22 wrote:
Improved grapple and step up still assume I'd be in melee range to begin with, as opposed to 30 feet in the air ...

Actually, it's my 20+ years of gaming experience and 10+ years with the 3.x rule set that has me convinced that you WILL be closer to your enemies than you are anticipating. At least sometimes. And if YOUR air elemental can haul you around, the ones the NPCs summon can certainly still grapple/whirlwind etc. Wizards are squishy.


LilithsThrall wrote:

Chance of charming a 1st level Fighter to take that hit for you instead.

Much better.

Of course. But couldn't they both do that?


The problem with Toughness is that it does provide some upfront benefit but that benefit generally loses utility over time.

Modifying your example:

1st level Party is facing 3 orcs (a moderately challenging encounter). The party rolls init poorly and the Wizard is actually vulnerable to charge attack.

The average hit from the Falchion Orc is enough force Mage 1 into unconsciousness. However he still has a con of 14 (pretty high) so he's probably safe from being actually dying unless a TPK happens.

The average hit from a Falchion Orc isn't enough to knock Mage 2 into unconsciousness so he can generally cast sleep or color spray next round and save his bacon.

An average crit (18 damage - Falchion Orcs are bad news) is enough to send both into negative but neither is actually dead from on blow (mage 1 is at -9 with 5 rounds to be stablized, mage 2 is at -6 with 8 rounds of life).

The math looks okay at first level but it's less and less compelling each level as the vulnerability to a one shot charge attack becomes less and less (pounce attacks are always deadly). Toughness can help with the tendency to become a pincushion for archers but I think that most people tend to prefer the combat advantage that a +4 to init offers. That way instead of absorbing damage (and placing a burden on the cleric) you are hopefully able to react faster than the opposition and thus beat them to the punch.

Scarab Sages

Improved Initiative. Get this. ASAP.

Being able to go first benefits all kinds of Wizards.

Blast Spell? Hit the enemies while they are standing together.

Charm/Enchantment/Sleep spell? Avoid combat altogether before someone gets hurt.

Summon Spell? Get your target picked early so that the rogue or fighter can flank.

Buff Spell? Get the most out of Haste in the first round, BEFORE the tank goes.

etc. etc. etc.


1. Choose a toad
2. ????
3. Profit!


Dire Mongoose wrote:
Tem wrote:

Quicken Spell

Arcane Armour Training
Keep in mind that using either of these consumes your swift action for a round. In other words, if you want to use a quickened spell and you're wearing armor, you're dealing with arcane spell failure that round because you won't then have a swift action to lower your arcane spell failure by 10% via arcane armor training.

Except that a quickened spell is done as a thought, so no somatic gestures, so no chance of arcane failure.


Trader2699 wrote:

Improved Initiative. Get this. ASAP.

Being able to go first benefits all kinds of Wizards.

Blast Spell? Hit the enemies while they are standing together.

Charm/Enchantment/Sleep spell? Avoid combat altogether before someone gets hurt.

Summon Spell? Get your target picked early so that the rogue or fighter can flank.

Buff Spell? Get the most out of Haste in the first round, BEFORE the tank goes.

etc. etc. etc.

Was scrolling though the answers before responding and this sayd pretty much everythign I was going to say for Improved init. (though I usually do not use blast spells).

Getting haste off so your alies can close and plaster the bad guys is an immense help. Slowing the bad guys before they can react is an immense help.

Playing a Diviner lets you get a spell off in the suprise round also though I realize you are plaing an air elementalist.

If traits are allowed I would recommend getting an additional +2 init that way.

If your DM will allow the Hummingbird Familiar from Dragon magazine thats great for an additional +4 init.

Dark Archive

Ughbash wrote:
If traits are allowed I would recommend getting an additional +2 init that way.

Also the +2 concentration trait

And if going conjuration specialist get the APG Teleportation School (Su) specialism rather then acid dart - then you don't need to worry about getting the anti-grapple feats.

Scarab Sages

If you're going to be a conjuration specialist, your first two feats are spoken for, sad to say.

1. Spell Focus: Conjuration
2. Augment Summoning

If there's a better way to do this, I haven't found it.

The Exchange

I would get combat casting and if you have another caster in the group you both should take the teamwork feat shield caster. Especially if your other caster is a cleric or druid that uses shields it is a nice bump to your concentration checks if you are adjacent to each other.

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