One thing to consider is what alloy a gold piece is. If it's 100% gold, it's going to be pretty soft.
I always thought gold pieces were about this big.
British Gold Sovereign:
# Weight: 7.9881 grams
# Thickness: 1.52 mm
# Diameter: 22.05 mm
The Sovereign is made of a alloy of 22 carats gold 2 carats copper
For a pure gold piece to have the thickness of a sovereign it would have a diameter of 19.84 mm; a dime 21.06 mm
So a gold piece is probably closer to 2 cm in diameter than 3.
F.Y.I
A copper piece should be about 30 mm give or take and a silver about 25 mm
The v3.0 Player's Handbook had a picture of some coins in the equipment chapter near the section where it talks about different denominations.
I read somewhere that it was a life-sized picture.
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I realize that i am making the assumption that gold is the same density on the gaming world as it is in ours but that should not be a very big stretch
Density is the missing assumption. Not because it should be any different, but because density is dependent on the alloy used. Think Archimedes and the "Eureka!" story.
The thickness provided tends to make pure gold coins short lived. I think in my gameworld, they shall be known as lumps. ;)
The v3.0 Player's Handbook had a picture of some coins in the equipment chapter near the section where it talks about different denominations.
I read somewhere that it was a life-sized picture.
The 3.5 PHB had an illustration of a gold piece labeled "actual size". And I have assurances that this size was carefully fact-checked and not at all picked totally arbitrarily.
If I thought that my players would go for it, I'd actually use medieval concepts of currency...
Which makes wealth in trade goods more common than wealth in coin.
Unfortunately, people have become so used to standardized currency that attempting to do anything else rapidly turns into "Not fun for anyone."
Yeah. There's pretty much no way that the gold coin shown in the 3.5 PHB is actually 'life size'. Thankfully, there's no such reference in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, which means you can pick any size you like for gold coins. So, if it makes more sense for you to have gold coins closer to the size of a nickel with a decent thickness, instead of the size of a Kennedy 50-cent piece about as thick as a sheet of paper, you can do so.
Personally, given the prevalence of 'shaved coins' from every era that used non-symbolic currency, the ease of damaging coins made from precious metals, and the fact that adventurer's wealth is often recovered from ancient tombs from dead civilizations that likely had slightly different standards for coinage, I just acknowledge that '50 gold pieces' is really short-hand for 'one pound of gold'.
Well according to the equipment chapter, one pound of gold is worth 50 gp, so one can safely assume that the gold piece is supposed to be pure gold, not an alloy. It's not what I would have chose, but it seems to be what the numbers say.
I personally dislike the convention of modern metric currency being applied to fantasy worlds. Yes, it makes things easy to understand, but it also breaks immersion. Then again, most players aren't that interested in roleplaying constant visits to the moneychangers so it's easier to just view it as an abstraction and leave it at that.
Then again, you could postulate the existence of a hypothetical "token" cantrip that lets wizards stamp or restamp coins with their image, and let non-magical characters get access to a coin press, and let that be the explanation for where the standardized coinage is coming from.
Mint Token
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets 1 coin or the equivalent measure of metal
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
Pinching a coin between thumb and forefinger, this spell summons a coin-press-like force which allows you to restamp it as a token with your image on its face and your arcane mark on the obverse. If copper, silver, or gold are used, these tokens are coinage of the usual value. If other metals are used, the token has no value beyond the base metal.
I personally dislike the convention of modern metric currency being applied to fantasy worlds. Yes, it makes things easy to understand, but it also breaks immersion. Then again, most players aren't that interested in roleplaying constant visits to the moneychangers so it's easier to just view it as an abstraction and leave it at that.
Then again, you could postulate the existence of a hypothetical "token" cantrip that lets wizards stamp or restamp coins with their image, and let non-magical characters get access to a coin press, and let that be the explanation for where the standardized coinage is coming from.
Mint Token
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets 1 coin or the equivalent measure of metal
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
Pinching a coin between thumb and forefinger, this spell summons a coin-press-like force which allows you to restamp it as a token with your image on its face and your arcane mark on the obverse. If copper, silver, or gold are used, these tokens are coinage of the usual value. If other metals are used, the token has no value beyond the base metal.
I like the idea of the spell but it's far too prone to abuse. With only the third level spell Enter Image you could use this to set up a wide range local scrying network. on the other hand, you could also use it to scare a money changer.
Mint Token...I like the idea of the spell but it's far too prone to abuse. With only the third level spell Enter Image you could use this to set up a wide range local scrying network. on the other hand, you could also use it to scare a money changer.
Consider this idea stolen. Absolutely awesome.
A spell I once suggested for clerics the Forgotten Realms deity Waukeen:
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Coin Money
School transmutation; Level cleric 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, DF
Range touch
Target pile of metal touched
Duration instantaneous
Converts up to ten pounds of nonmagical copper, silver, gold, or platinum into your choice of standard coins of the same value. For example, a pound of gold can be minted into 5,000 copper pieces, 500 silver pieces, 50 gold pieces, 5 platinum pieces, or a mix thereof. These reeded disks have imagery appropriate to the cleric's deity.
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So, it not only simplifies coining of standard money, but keeps the metal ratios standardized. Discovering a whole lot of silver might cause a general inflation, but the 1000-100-10-1 ratio stays stable.
I like the idea of the spell but it's far too prone to abuse. With only the third level spell Enter Image you could use this to set up a wide range local scrying network. on the other hand, you could also use it to scare a money changer.
Holy crap! My wizard uses his own face as his arcane mark.
I am totally going to cast my at-will arcane mark on every coin I give up from now on and use Enter Image (which I also have) all over the place!
And to think, I was just casting my arcane marks on trees around our campsite for when I was "on watch." I now realize that I was thinking far too small.
According to the US Gold Bureau:
A 1 oz. gold bullion coin is about the size of a U.S. half dollar, a 1/2 ounce coin is about the size of a regular U.S. quarter-dollar and a 1/10 ounce coin is about the size of a U.S. dime.
The overall size will also be influenced by the fineness, or karat, of the gold and what other alloys are added to make the coin more durable.
Also go and do a search for medieval or renaissance gold coins and you will see that many of them are fairly small. And hey, at least in the current rules it is 50 coins to the pound, as back in the old days of D&D each coin weighed an ounce, so it was only 16 to the pound. Back then you tried even harder than you do now to convert your coins to gems or other portable objects of value.
I like the idea of the spell but it's far too prone to abuse. With only the third level spell Enter Image you could use this to set up a wide range local scrying network. on the other hand, you could also use it to scare a money changer.
I think scaring the moneychanger could be fun and good RP, personally.
If you really wanted to set up a scrying network, you'd just drop 500 GP on an Ring of Arcane Signets from the APG, think "This is a perfect image of my face" as you put on the ring for the first time, and run around doing KILROY WAS HERE with the rubber stamp of your face on anything you want, including other people's bodies if you're in a mood to. That's completely legal by the RAW.
With the business about using the spell to moneychange mass quantities of metal at once, that's a bit much for a cantrip, and highly abusable in that you could run up and turn the bars of your prison cell into a pile of souvenir tokens. One coin at time as with a coin press is plenty for a cantrip.
Thinking on it a little more, here's a slight expansion:
Mint Token
School transmutation; Level cleric 0, sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets 1 coin or the equivalent measure of metal
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
Pinching a coin between thumb and forefinger, this spell summons a coin-press-like force. If you are an arcane caster, this allows you to restamp it as a token with your image on its face and your arcane mark on the obverse. If you are a divine caster, the face is that of your god (as you conceive him or her) and the obverse is your god's holy symbol or the image of your local temple. If copper, silver, or gold are used, these tokens are coinage of the usual value. If other metals are used, the token has no value beyond the base metal.
Special: Gods will only grant this as an orison to their clerics with the Artifice, Earth, or Travel domains.
One has to assume that all the methods are in play in Golarion. The Romans used hammers and dies to make their coins. The Chinese used sand casting. By the Renaissance, Europe was using the "drop hammer mint," technology invented by Da Vinci, and technology easily within the level of most Kingdoms in Golarion. Here, look:
http://www.quicksilversmith.com/
I'm not certain what it costs for one those, but pricing it in the neighborhood of a spyglass or a waterclock seems about right, and it becomes even easier if you add magic to the mix.
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I like the idea of the spell but it's far too prone to abuse. With only the third level spell Enter Image you could use this to set up a wide range local scrying network. on the other hand, you could also use it to scare a money changer.
This is actually what the governments of Golarion are already doing to the kingdom so the PC's can have fun explaining themselves to the magistrate when they get caught messing with the kingdom's coinage.
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Coin Money
School transmutation; Level cleric 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, DF
Range touch
Target pile of metal touched
Duration instantaneousConverts up to ten pounds of nonmagical copper, silver, gold, or platinum into your choice of standard coins of the same value. For example, a pound of gold can be minted into 5,000 copper pieces, 500 silver pieces, 50 gold pieces, 5 platinum pieces, or a mix thereof. These reeded disks have imagery appropriate to the cleric's deity.
Oh, very cool.
I remember when EverQuest first came out, coin would quickly weigh down your character (particularly the Monks, with their restrictive encumbrance limit), and we wished for a tinkered 'Gnomish Moneychanger' device that would change 10 copper into 1 silver, or 10 silver into 1 gold! (Or even 11 copper into 1 silver, or 11 silver into 1 gold. The convenience would be worth the inefficient conversion process!)
Very cool spell. It could also be available as an alchemical process, with the alchemist charging a 10% fee for the treatment.
"Why, yes, I can turn lead into gold. It's really quite easy. Bring me 100 lbs. of lead, and I'll turn it into it's value in gold, which...", <checks figures>, "should be about 2.5 gold pieces, at the current market rate."
The drawing of the coin in the 3.5 PHB is an anachronism.
This kind of coin with a clearly defined edge was historically produced in the 18th century.
In the Medieval Age, a coin was often a solidified drop of gold with a precised weight pressed between 2 engraved plates. As there was no mold, the edge was not clearly defined and the thickness of the coin could vary (according to the variation pression applied at the creation) and was often very thin.
At these times, a common way forge false coins was simply to trim the edge of several coins, lightening them a little bit to collect enough gold to make a new coin.