The Magus spell list


Round 1: Magus

Dark Archive

Can someone explain to me why the Magus needs their own spell list? I see no reason why they just can't use the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Why re-invent the wheel here?


William Bryan wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the Magus needs their own spell list? I see no reason why they just can't use the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Why re-invent the wheel here?

you'll notice several touch spells are missing from the magus list that are on the wiz list

this is intentional

example
Vampiric Touch

hit and get temp HP every round


I have the same complaint about the witch, summoner, etc....

The problem with lists and these types is the designers never remember for new spells (such as come out in new books) to update the spell lists to include those new spells.....

I might be wrong the PF guys might do it, but it begins to get "clunky" in a hurry....

New spell X
Cleric 3, siz/sor 4, Bard 5, Druid 2, Summoner 3, Witch 4, Magus 3

I suggest they introduce a mechanic that lets PCs aquire non-standard spells (off list) such as when they exchange spells at higher level.......


The reason these classes need their own spell list is that they are different from other casters. They have their own strengths, weaknesses, and focuses that vary (sometimes significantly) from existing caster classes. This means that you create a new spell list that maintains the feel of the class or sacrifice the feel of the class for simplicity. The latter works for the oracle and sorcerer for the most part, but all of the other base classes are just to far away from the base spell lists (wizard and cleric) thematically for them to use someone else's spell list.

Grand Lodge

And again as intentionally limited casters, they're not suppposed to get the same amount of additions to thier spell list that a wizard or cleric might get.

And yes the designers do remember... you haven't given Paizo a chance to "forget" yet. It's one of the reasons that unlike WOTC they're not going to be churing out a half a dozen new classes a month.

Grand Lodge

KenderKin wrote:

I suggest they introduce a mechanic that lets PCs aquire non-standard spells (off list) such as when they exchange spells at higher level.......

The mechanic is there it's called Rule Zero, since Paizo can't be expected to balance third party material by fiat.


I am talking about their own material....

The lists are too restrictive and when you put out new stuff each new spells should designate any list it goes on.

I do not care about other additions or 3.X materials.....

I just want to know that when a great new book of magic comes out I know which spells are now on the witch list......

(think back to confusion about feats that were or were not fighter bonus feats for example.....)


In my opinion, this is very much a good thing, as it is one of the things that leaves the Magus as a viable alternative to the Eldritch Knight and Arcane warrior bard rather than a class that renders either of them completely redundant.


my gripe with a few of the casters is the lack of "offensive spells"

might be why I don't like the summoner

I need to look again at the magus though...


And for the love of God add vanish to the list!

Dark Archive

sunshadow21 wrote:
The reason these classes need their own spell list is that they are different from other casters. They have their own strengths, weaknesses, and focuses that vary (sometimes significantly) from existing caster classes. This means that you create a new spell list that maintains the feel of the class or sacrifice the feel of the class for simplicity. The latter works for the oracle and sorcerer for the most part, but all of the other base classes are just to far away from the base spell lists (wizard and cleric) thematically for them to use someone else's spell list.

I don't see how (aside from being proficient in martial combat and arcane magic, but not masters of either) the Magus is any different from wizard. If you look under the "SPELLS" section of the class, they are IDENTICAL to wizards.

I get the practical reason for why they have a different spell list (fair and balanced and all that...very clear) but if they prepare spells just like a wizard and start off with the same number of spells just like a wizard and gain 2 spells per level just like a wizard, what then is the reason WITHIN THE STORY as to why they can't learn something like vampiric touch or any other wizard spell for that matter?


William Bryan wrote:
sunshadow21 wrote:
The reason these classes need their own spell list is that they are different from other casters. They have their own strengths, weaknesses, and focuses that vary (sometimes significantly) from existing caster classes. This means that you create a new spell list that maintains the feel of the class or sacrifice the feel of the class for simplicity. The latter works for the oracle and sorcerer for the most part, but all of the other base classes are just to far away from the base spell lists (wizard and cleric) thematically for them to use someone else's spell list.

I don't see how (aside from being proficient in martial combat and arcane magic, but not masters of either) the Magus is any different from wizard. If you look under the "SPELLS" section of the class, they are IDENTICAL to wizards.

I get the practical reason for why they have a different spell list (fair and balanced and all that...very clear) but if they prepare spells just like a wizard and start off with the same number of spells just like a wizard and gain 2 spells per level just like a wizard, what then is the reason WITHIN THE STORY as to why they can't learn something like vampiric touch or any other wizard spell for that matter?

As your GM and your group create the story, not Paizo, I'd ask them!

Personally, our lot stick to the set spell lists and have the option of adding additional spells through quests/an adventure, if we all agree.

Let's not forget, as mentioned by previous posters, tailoring the spell lists of a class allow for additional balance.

..much as I'd love my Sorcerer to have Heal.

So to answer your question directly - it's another form of control/balance.

*shakes fist*

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