In the "Spell Combat - idea" thread, the OP (i think) suggested that one might add the Strength or Dexterity bonus as a bonus to a magus concentration checks. In other threads, it has been said that it might as well get Combat Casting as a free feat as it's a tax otherwise.
I propose Constitution bonus to concentration as a special ability gained at level 1. Constitution has a history of being the main ability for concentration checks, and there's some good rationale for it. With the magus, this is especially true and easy to fluff in. It's also a good ability score for all magi, where some might pick up weapon finesse and focus on dex and some will focus on strength; but all will have decent constitution. At 1st level, it will probably just be a +2 bonus, but that equals the trait and it'll grow as the character gains belts and the like.
It far reduces the need of Combat Casting without making the feat redundant, it makes spell combat easier without making it over-powered, and it's unique for the class instead of only being a feat.
In the "Spell Combat - idea" thread, the OP (i think) suggested that one might add the Strength or Dexterity bonus as a bonus to a magus concentration checks. In other threads, it has been said that it might as well get Combat Casting as a free feat as it's a tax otherwise.
I propose Constitution bonus to concentration as a special ability gained at level 1. Constitution has a history of being the main ability for concentration checks, and there's some good rationale for it. With the magus, this is especially true and easy to fluff in. It's also a good ability score for all magi, where some might pick up weapon finesse and focus on dex and some will focus on strength; but all will have decent constitution. At 1st level, it will probably just be a +2 bonus, but that equals the trait and it'll grow as the character gains belts and the like.
It far reduces the need of Combat Casting without making the feat redundant, it makes spell combat easier without making it over-powered, and it's unique for the class instead of only being a feat.
because the Magus isn't a MAD enough class already ?
I'd wager the bonus in or out people would still aim for 12-14 in Con for a Magus. so we're talking a +2 bonus at most if not +1
Con is still third to STR INT or DEX INT builds
and I was in another thread showing how much of a difference +/- 1 makes on your concentration check for the Magus
the answer ? about 1.2/dmg round average including spell damage
because the Magus isn't a MAD enough class already ?I'd wager the bonus in or out people would still aim for 12-14 in Con for a Magus. so we're talking a +2 bonus at most if not +1
Con is still third to STR INT or DEX INT builds
and I was in another thread showing how much of a difference +/- 1 makes on your concentration check for the Magus
the answer ? about 1.2/dmg round average including spell damage
In a 20 point buy, this is probably what I'd go for disregarding a con to conc ability:
Str 16Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 7
Then at levels 4/8/12/16/20, I'd let the increases go Str/Str/Int/Int/Str. Or I could go 15 str/13 dex/10 cha if I didn't want any penalties.
Anyway, Int isn't that big of a focus for this class, as the saves will suck regardless. It's mostly good at buffing, touch attacks, and the kind of battlefield contol that doesn't allow saves. You want 15 int at level 13 and 16 int at level 16, but that's it. I'd prioritize Con bonuses from items far higher than Int bonuses.
I can't see taking 12 con for any melee class with 1d8 hit dice, especially not one in light armor and with bad reflex save.
At what level was +1 conc 1.2 dpr? I must've missed that thread.
some of its here
and some here
in its current form I don't think I'd make the Magus a strength build you don't get enough bang for your buck, no 2h to make more of your str bonus and not enough attacks to benefit from adding your str bonus multiple times.
imo better off with Dex sacrifice weapon damage get better AC and focus on doing spell damage
and some herein its current form I don't think I'd make the Magus a strength build you don't get enough bang for your buck, no 2h to make more of your str bonus and not enough attacks to benefit from adding your str bonus multiple times.
imo better off with Dex sacrifice weapon damage get better AC and focus on doing spell damage
So switch the dex and strength then. The point is, in a 20p build you want at least 14 con anyway; even with a 15pt build, I'd probably go 10/15/14/14/10/7
So the bonus is still 10%, which is half the combat casting feat. And it stacks with is, so if you really want to make sure you can cast on the defensive, you can take both. And this would add to all concentration checks, not just on the defensive.
I'm also sorry but I can't seem to understand the mathemathics you posted in the other thread. English isn't my main language, so when the math written hastily without being explained, it's hard for me to follow. At what level was 5% concentration equal to 1.2 dpr, and what spell was taken into account? If it's at level 5 or less, 1.2 dpr is noticeable and 2.4 dpr is really worthwhile.
I proposed STR or DEX(with Weapon Finesse) as a way to represent fending an opponent off with your weapon while casting defensively. It's also less MAD than using CON, but I can see your points regarding tradition and the fact that everyone's going to want some CON.
I would still propose the STR/DEX route but maybe put in a provision for not allowing whips. (That's just cause I don't like them, though, not for balance.) Of course, using a whip sort of gives up part of the advantage of being able to full attack and cast at the same time, anyways.
I proposed STR or DEX(with Weapon Finesse) as a way to represent fending an opponent off with your weapon while casting defensively. It's also less MAD than using CON, but I can see your points regarding tradition and the fact that everyone's going to want some CON.
I would still propose the STR/DEX route but maybe put in a provision for not allowing whips. (That's just cause I don't like them, though, not for balance.) Of course, using a whip sort of gives up part of the advantage of being able to full attack and cast at the same time, anyways.
It's just that it looks a bit "clumsy" so to speak. While I understand the in-game fluff for it, and agree that it's good fluff, it means now all ability scores except the traditional con will be relevant to the concentration mechanic. It also means the ability gets more complex, with a "use the highest of these". It's not bad, it just makes the rules look ugly. This is the same reason I whole-heartedly disagree with the suggestions some has been making of making first the witch and now the magus "choose" which casting attribute it should have.
Another option would be combat expertise. Since it's already a class that will have decent Int, combat expertise is easily accessable and seems to do exactly the fluff for having Str/Dex as a bonus to Conc. The drawback is that it too is a feat that either becomes akin to a feat tax (though you get to choose between it and combat casting) or have to be given freely.
It's just that it looks a bit "clumsy" so to speak. While I understand the in-game fluff for it, and agree that it's good fluff, it means now all ability scores except the traditional con will be relevant to the concentration mechanic. It also means the ability gets more complex, with a "use the highest of these". It's not bad, it just makes the rules look ugly. This is the same reason I whole-heartedly disagree with the suggestions some has been making of making first the witch and now the magus "choose" which casting attribute it should have.
Another option would be combat expertise. Since it's already a class that will have decent Int, combat expertise is easily accessable and seems to do exactly the fluff for having Str/Dex as a bonus to Conc. The drawback is that it too is a feat that either becomes akin to a feat tax (though you get to choose between it and combat casting) or have to be given freely.
Eh, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' they say. I think it would look a lot better if there were a more viable STR-based build. Then it would be a choice between DEX for AC at the cost of having to burn a feat for Weapon Finesse, or going the STR and damage route for free.
I see CON as being a bit off fluff-wise. It fits for a concentration check from taking damage, but I'm not seeing why it should help with the casting defensively bit. I'm not worried about it being traditional.
:) I had actually thought about something with Combat Expertise, but I figured taking any extra penalties to attack would make Spell Combat just as useless as failing the concentration check would.
Eh, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' they say. I think it would look a lot better if there were a more viable STR-based build. Then it would be a choice between DEX for AC at the cost of having to burn a feat for Weapon Finesse, or going the STR and damage route for free.
It's just that there's few if any other abilities in the game where you choose the governing stat, and those that are, that's usually the defining ability; that you get to choose between a regular stat that's the standard, and the abilities stat (such as the duelist's int-to-damage).
Agreed on that we need str-based options. I do think the medium bab, medium casting fits better for a dex based build, while a high bab, low casting fits better for a str based build though - but that's just my taste (IMO, it should be d10/full bab/low casting with a focus on str-based builds; it's already possible to make dex-based "arcane warriors" in the bard, especially with the APG).
:) I had actually thought about something with Combat Expertise, but I figured taking any extra penalties to attack would make Spell Combat just as useless as failing the concentration check would.
Maybe, but then you'd have a choice; basically, free spell with a very weak melee attack, or risky spell with decent melee attack.