I've heard it said that wall of stone was a great spell because you could trap people in it.
How is that done exactly?
It's a shapeable spell that grants you one 5-foot square per caster level. Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension. That means the smallest trap you can make is a hollow cube 10 feet on a side.
It takes four 5-foot squares to make a single 10-foot square. Assuming you are creating a hollow cube with an open bottom (using the stone ground as the bottom) it would take you...
...(4 sides + ceiling) x four 5-foot squares each = twenty 5-foot squares.
The trap trick doesn't even work until 20th-level. Even then, it would only work on large or smaller creatures.
What's so great about that? What am I missing?
EDIT: I suppose if someone was backed up against a stone wall, you could do this as early as 16th-level. Still better options available at that level.
EDIT 2: Ah, you can halve its thickness for double area. That makes it a little better, though it becomes much easier to break out.
I've heard it said that wall of stone was a great spell because you could trap people in it.
How is that done exactly?
It's a shapeable spell that grants you one 5-foot square per caster level. Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension. That means the smallest trap you can make is a hollow cube 10 feet on a side.
It takes four 5-foot squares to make a single 10-foot square. Assuming you are creating a hollow cube with an open bottom (using the stone ground as the bottom) it would take you...
...(4 sides + ceiling) x four 5-foot squares each = twenty 5-foot squares.
The trap trick doesn't even work until 20th-level. Even then, it would only work on large or smaller creatures.
What's so great about that? What am I missing?
EDIT: I suppose if someone was backed up against a stone wall, you could do this as early as 16th-level. Still better options available at that level.
EDIT 2: Ah, you can halve its thickness for double area. That makes it a little better, though it becomes much easier to break out.
It can be done, and the Wall is not meant to trap them forever, but it will keep them out of the fight for a while. I intend to use it on a witch this weekend to shut down the hexes. I am sure the fighter will eventually break through the wall to free her, which effectively takes 2 pc's out of combat, or at least removes the debuffer and secondary healer.
Excuse my ignorance at math, but why does it take 4 5' squares to create a 10' square? Wouldn't it be 2?
Excuse my ignorance at math, but why does it take 4 5' squares to create a 10' square? Wouldn't it be 2?
2 would be a 5' x 10' rectangle. It's a matter of area. 5' x 5' = 25'sq. 10' x 10' = 100' sq.
Excuse my ignorance at math, but why does it take 4 5' squares to create a 10' square? Wouldn't it be 2?
he's saying that to be 10' high and 10' wide it would take 4 squares. 2 squares would be 10' wide but only 5' high.
Excuse my ignorance at math, but why does it take 4 5' squares to create a 10' square? Wouldn't it be 2?
A 10 foot square is 10 feet on all sides. In order to acheive that you need 4 5' squares.
edit: Look at example 3 on the link and you will notice the square has 2 inches on each side and is therefore has an area of 2 square inches.
and is therefore has an area of 2 square inches.
Everything but this is right. A 2" x 2" square actually has an area of 4"sq.
Cheers.
So if you're 10th lvl, halving the thickness you can create 5 10' by 10' walls.
You don't have to worry about the ground, so isn't that enough?
Cheers.
So if you're 10th lvl, halving the thickness you can create 5 10' by 10' walls.
You don't have to worry about the ground, so isn't that enough?
Seems to be. I figured it out roughly 45 minutes before you posted though. :P
and is therefore has an area of 2 square inches.Everything but this is right. A 2" x 2" square actually has an area of 4"sq.
but it is 2" on all sides
To go back to the 10' example if you make it 10' feet on all sides and you draw a line down the middle horizontally and vertically you get four 5' squares.
and is therefore has an area of 2 square inches.Everything but this is right. A 2" x 2" square actually has an area of 4"sq.but it is 2" on all sides
To go back to the 10' example if you make it 10' feet on all sides and you draw a line down the middle horizontally and vertically you get four 5' squares.
Mmhmm. It's 2" x 2". That gives you 4 square inches. Each square inch is 1" x 1", just like each 5' square is 5' x 5', so, just as a square that's 10' on each side has 4 5' squares (for a total of 100'sq.), a square that's 2" on each side has 4 1" squares, for a total of 4"sq. ^_-
Get him drunk and tell him there's a good cask of amontillado over in the alcove...
Mmhmm. It's 2" x 2". That gives you 4 square inches. Each square inch is 1" x 1", just like each 5' square is 5' x 5', so, just as a square that's 10' on each side has 4 5' squares (for a total of 100'sq.), a square that's 2" on each side has 4 1" squares, for a total of 4"sq. ^_-and is therefore has an area of 2 square inches.Everything but this is right. A 2" x 2" square actually has an area of 4"sq.but it is 2" on all sides
To go back to the 10' example if you make it 10' feet on all sides and you draw a line down the middle horizontally and vertically you get four 5' squares.
I guess I am not explaining it well, but my picture does match the below quote and address the answer. If my words don't match the picture ignore the words. The picture is what I was trying to say.
Tanis wrote:Excuse my ignorance at math, but why does it take 4 5' squares to create a 10' square? Wouldn't it be 2?
Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension.
Huh. I never noticed that clause before!
Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension.Huh. I never noticed that clause before!
Happy to educate!
Do the wall section have to be contiguous/touching? Or can I set up several mini walls with a single casting?
For example, let's say my party and I are in a LONG dungeon corridor approximately 10' high by 10' wide. Suddenly, a purple worm comes worming down the corridor out of the shadows. In an attempt to stop it/deter it/slow it down my mage casts wall of stone and sets up four 10x10' stone wall barricades that are more or less back to back (but not touching one another).
The four walls, when looked at from the side, would look something like this: ||||
Would that work?
|
Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension.Huh. I never noticed that clause before!Happy to educate!
Do the wall section have to be contiguous/touching? Or can I set up several mini walls with a single casting?
For example, let's say my party and I are in a LONG dungeon corridor approximately 10' high by 10' wide. Suddenly, a purple worm comes worming down the corridor out of the shadows. In an attempt to stop it/deter it/slow it down my mage casts wall of stone and sets up four 10x10' stone wall barricades that are more or less back to back (but not touching one another).
The four walls, when looked at from the side, would look something like this: ||||
Would that work?
No, I'm pretty sure they have to be contiguous. However, you might get away with setting them up accordion style, so the hallway would like like this from above:
--------------------------------[Mage] /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ PWorm
--------------------------------
|
No, I'm pretty sure they have to be contiguous. However, you might get away with setting them up accordion style, so the hallway would like like this from above:
--------------------------------
[Mage] /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ PWorm
--------------------------------
I think he might be able to accomplish his |||| formation if he includes the floor in the shaping, so that it would actually look like this from the side: |_|_|_| (assume they're all connected - darn imperfect keyboards!)
Can you have them connecting on their broad side? So that the |||| formation is actually flush? (Essentially turning it from 4 walls, to 1 wall that is 4x as thick.)
What exactly does "no dimension smaller than 10 feet" mean? A 10X10X10 hemi-ellipsoid (i.e. an ellipsoidal dome with a 10' diameter base that is 10' tall) could be made with only 11 5'-squares.
I never realized there was so much mathematics in Pathfinder until I started reading all these posts (not just these ones mind you but the ones about probabilities and statistics as well).
I can just imagine a wizard sitting down with his chalkboard as a purple worm starts rushing towards the party with the illiterate barbarian yelling out for the wizard to hurry up and cast a spell to which the wizard replies: "In a moment, I'm just working out a few geometrical sums."
What counts as a dimension and what doesn't? The thickness of the wall is a dimension, but thickness obviously doesn't count or the spell wouldn't do anything at all by the rules as written.
If you shape the wall as a dome, is it the radius or the diameter that must be at least 10 feet? What about the height of the dome?
What counts as a dimension and what doesn't? The thickness of the wall is a dimension, but thickness obviously doesn't count or the spell wouldn't do anything at all by the rules as written.
If you shape the wall as a dome, is it the radius or the diameter that must be at least 10 feet? What about the height of the dome?
That is kind of a weird gray area, isn't it?
Spell area's run on intersections and go along lines, so to trap someone you need the lines that run
the two squares in front
The two squares behind
The two squares left
The two squares right
the 4 squares on top.
that's 12 squares, doable at 12th level.
It's a shapeable spell that grants you one 5-foot square per caster level. Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension.
Where are you getting this? I don't see it anywhere in the spell's description. (Bear in mind, it's 2:15 am here. ^__^)
All you need to trap a medium or smaller creature is 9 squares. Each of the four walls will be 5 feet wide x 10 feet tall (2 squares). Four walls = 8 squares, plus one to seal in the roof. Tada, 9th level, without halving the thickness.
You can trap two adjacent medium creatures for only 14 squares. It'd be funny to box in an ally with a single enemy. THUNDERDOME.
It's a shapeable spell that grants you one 5-foot square per caster level. Since it is shapeable, whatever you shape must have a minimum of 10 feet in each dimension.Where are you getting this? I don't see it anywhere in the spell's description. (Bear in mind, it's 2:15 am here. ^__^)
Core RB p.215: (S) Shapeable: If an area or effect entry ends with “(S),”you can shape the spell. A shaped effect or area can have no dimension smaller than 10 feet. Many effects or areas are given as cubes to make it easy to model irregular shapes. Three-dimensional volumes are most often needed to define aerial or underwater effects and areas.
What counts as a dimension and what doesn't? The thickness of the wall is a dimension, but thickness obviously doesn't count or the spell wouldn't do anything at all by the rules as written.
If you shape the wall as a dome, is it the radius or the diameter that must be at least 10 feet? What about the height of the dome?
Diameter. It's the dimension of the shape that matters; dimensions are measured in Height, Width, and/or Depth. So, you could make a 10' diameter circular wall. Trying to make a spherical dome out of it would fail, however, because a 10' diameter hemisphere would only be 5' high.