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I have a 3rd level rogue, and I plan to take the bleeding attack talent at 4th level, the minor magic talent at 6th level and the major magic talent at 8th level. Does anyone have suggestions for spell choices or alternatives?
Mostly the character sneaks around to get the flank, or stands out of the way and shoots into melee (precise shot, no penalty).
I was looking for rogue advice on these boards for a friend and was warned that bleeding attack isn't as powerful as it appears. At low levels, especially if your party focus' fire, the enemy will die before the bleed damage kicks in at the start of their turn. At high levels the damage becomes insignificant. Personally I like the flavour though.
Edit: you might find this bit of the conversation interesting...
Edit: is there anything amazing for rogues from the APG? If not I will not bring it up as it will just make building a character more complicated.A lot of rogue talents. Some good rogue archetypes, some bad ones. The archetypes need to be evaluated on a case-by-case, but the rogue talents which are great I may as well go over....
Assault leader - great, because giving the guy whose trips provoke an attack of opportunity an attack of opportunity (try saying that five times fast) is awesome
Peerless maneuver - rolling twice for acrobatics is great, but situational. I still think it's worthwhile, especially since you can use it 1/day for every 5 levels you have.
Distracting attack - amazing for the monk if he's taking medusa's wrath. he can sneak, forgo damage and then make the person he sneaked flat-footed to the monk... meaning more medusa's wrath. And with opportunist, that means more chances to use opportunist and get SA anyways.
Powerful Sneak + Deadly Sneak - two rogue talents to take a -2 on attacks and treat all SA dice that roll 1 or 2 as 3 is decent but not excellent for the rogue who isn't TWFing. For the TWF rogue, another -2 on top of everything is a bit overkill, and could make your SA hit harder but you hit less, which is the antithesis of what your main goal is
Positioning Attack - sneak attack and then move 30ft without provoking is almost necessary later in the game if you plan on taking on more than a basketfull of colossal monsters. if you don't see yourself fighting more than one great wyrm, passable.
Entanglement of blades - excellent. If you hit someone with SA, it prevents people from five-foot stepping out of flank, and can prevent people from five-foot stepping out of threatened areas. hit someone with this, then crippling strike them until they're unconcious. they can't move and they'll wish they could.
Redirect attack - 1/day get out of crit free card. If you get hit, you can redirect it...
as for spell choices I like vanish for 1st level spells and for 0 well ghost sound is pretty sick for a rouge.
Good point about Bleeding attack, but is Crippling attack that much better? At 2pts Str per SA? Maybe if I get off multiple SA from TWF + Opportunist it's significant.
Crippling Strike is the bomb! But you can't get it until 10th lvl, so apples and oranges.
Mage armour lasts a lot longer than Shield, so why do people think shield is better?
Because most rogues have light armour on, which Mage Armour does not stack with, they're both armour bonuses.
Will it stack with my current (un)armoured AC? Dex 20, gloves of Dex +4, Amulet of natural armour +4 = 21?
Yes.
Will it stack if I wear magic armour?
No. see above.
*edit* btw, Light for a Rogue?? Try and get Darkvision instead (Goggles of Night). Otherwise you're ruining your Stealth and thus, first sneak attack without leaving yourself open to hits.
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I was thinking about Shield for 1st level spell, since it does stack with armor. It provides shield bonus, not armor bonus. Since I do not carry a shield, it makes sense.
But Vanish sounds pretty useful, as does Stumble Gap.
I have met enough undead to give serious consideration to give serious consideration to Disrupt Undead.
Based on the replies in this thread, I think I'll skip Bleeding Attack.
Ray of frost is a nice cantrip -- you can sneak attack with rays at range.
(Of course, cold-resistant creatures won't worry about that.)
As a first level spell, two of them stand out heavily: grease (make your targets flatfooted) and silent image (way, way, way too many uses for an imaginative player to pass up).
Also note that these two give you spell-like abilities, and there is a feat called Quicken Spell-like Ability... verbum sap.
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I can recommend the following spells:
Level 0:
Acid Splash. Good for damage-dealing rogues everywhere. It's conjuration magic, so it doesn't allow spell resistance, and acid resistance is fairly uncommon. As a bonus, you might be able to sneak attack with it, every now and then.
Detect Magic. Best for scouting rogues and trap experts. Somebody always has to have Detect Magic, and it's nice if that person has a good Perception. But since you don't have great Spellcraft (most likely), you won't be able to identify magic items.
Dancing Lights. Misdirects and lights up enemies. You don't have to be right next to them, either. On the other hand, the duration is pretty short for a lighting effect. Best for tricky rogues.
Ghost Sound. Misdirection and deception, that's the name of the game. Best for stealthy and tricky rogues.
Mage Hand. It's telekinesis! Too bad it only works on 5-pound objects, or smaller stuff. Still, it's extremely useful in many, many situations to grab that tiny MacGuffin from 15 feet away. Best for thieving rogues.
Message. You can communicate with people discreetly. Best for social rogues.
Prestidigitation. I use it for cleaning fresh bloodstains out of the carpet. Great for stealthy or tricky rogues.
Level 1:
Shield. +4 AC for a class that is often a little shy on AC. Works against incorporeal. Nice. Good for melee rogues.
Grease. Sure, the most popular use allows a save. But if you Grease yourself, it's very hard for anyone to grapple you. Best for rogues who completely ignore Escape Artist. And who fear being grappled.
Obscuring Mist. Never be completely without concealment again! Best for stealthy rogues.
Unseen Servant. Filch stuff from thirty feet away! Let someone else load your heavy crossbow! Lasts an hour per level each casting! Best for thieving rogues.
True Strike. Hit them when it really counts. Great for ambushing rogues, and for anybody who gets annoyed at darkness effects or invisible opponents.
Magic Missile. Magic missile always hits, there's no save, and it's very useful against incorporeal enemies, who are immune to your sneak attacks (I think). Great for fighting rogues.
Shocking Grasp. It's not really impressive alone after about 7th or 8th level, but it's damage. And there's no save. And you can sneak attack with it. Great for fighting rogues.
Disguise Self. DM won't let you get a hat of disguise? No matter, with the actual spell, you can have magically-enhanced disguises whenever you need them! Best for social or tricky rogues.
Silent Image. They don't get a save if they don't interact with it. Best for stealthy or tricky rogues.
Ventriloquism. Don't bother using it in combat, use it to actually talk to people from hiding! Best for rogues who are social AND stealthy.
Animate Rope. Because sometimes, you can't be bothered to tie your own dog gone rope. Only take this one if you're a rogue who really, really likes to make very creative and liberal use of rope all the time.
Enlarge Person. Cast it on yourself for damage and reach. Cast it on the fighter to grant him damage and reach. Cast it on all your friends! Best for fighting/support rogues.
Expeditious Retreat. Or, as I like to call the spell - "Yes, I can reach the flanking position this round." Best for melee rogues.
Feather Fall.[/b] Splattered rogues are not effective rogues. Best for reckless or paranoid rogues.
Reduce Person. Cast it on yourself. Gets you a total +2 to AC, a sweet +5 to stealth, and improves your missile attacks by +2. If you're a halfling or gnome already, you can now fit in somebody's backpack. Best for missile and stealthy rogues.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention. Don't bother with that Bleeding Attack. It sounds great, and extra damage is fun, but it's just not worth it. There are better rogue talents, if you want to do more damage.