|
As far as I understand it, the only special rules for initiative are for mounts. All of animal companions, cohorts from leadership, or eidolons would act on their own initiative.
Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don't dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can't do anything else until your next turn.
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
Other than this, if you need to tell the animal companion/Eidolon/Cohort to do something, it would need to delay til right after your initiative.
What happens if the companion is also a mount?
If my summoner hops into the eidolon's saddle halfway through the battle, does the eidolon's initiative change to that of the summoner? Does the eidolon move upward through the initiative count if it was lower than the summoner? Does an eidolon moving downward through the initiative count get a fresh set of actions to use this turn?
It makes practical (but not rules justifiable afaik) sense to me that an eidolon moving down would not get new actions, but an eidolon moving up would be allowed to take its turn right away. Alternatively, the summoner could be forced to drop down to the eidolon's initiative.
when we playe dmy Dm insisted the Eidolon go on its own initiative. He even tried this when it was my mount but i insisted.
Really what it comes down to though is its way easier to control if the ieidolon moves on your own initiative.
but i was happy with the compromise since having your mount use diferent initiative would be horrribly hard to manage.
Everything goes on it's own initiative. Familiars, companions, cohorts, mounts, pets, eidolons, NPC's... (In the case of a mount, one would normally hold it's action to go on the same initiative as the other) For ease of play, though, it's typically allowed for your pets and things to go on your initiative.
So your Eidolon's summoner would go on the Eidolon's initiative...
Wait, no... Which one's the pet again?
|
Most animal companions and familiars have better Dex than their masters, so more often than not would roll higher initiative, if you made them roll.
Now, if the creature has little imagination of its own, it may usually delay to the master's initiative, to wait for an order to attack a specific person, or the familiar may be used to hanging close in case the master wants to cast a spell on it to deliver.
But the period between its official initiative count, and the master's initiative count, the animal is aware of its surroundings. I wouldn't penalise a Dex 18 animal for having a Dex 8 master, by having it sneak attacked in the first round, while waiting for its master to act. I'd allow it to roll its own initiative, so we know when it snaps out of being flat-footed, gains AoO, and can make immediate actions, if nothing else.
Although telepathically linked to his eidolon, does the summoner still need to make ride checks for "guide with knees" or "Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount" to make the eidolon move or attack on the summoner's turn?
And does this, from the rules for the ride skill, imply that a rider's standard action can be spent to make his mount attack? "DC 10: Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action."
Although telepathically linked to his eidolon, does the summoner still need to make ride checks for "guide with knees" or "Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount" to make the eidolon move or attack on the summoner's turn?
And does this, from the rules for the ride skill, imply that a rider's standard action can be spent to make his mount attack? "DC 10: Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action."
Having a telepathic link, and having telepathy with the creature are nto the same thing. He still has to take the feat.
He still has to take the feat.
Which feat is that?
He still has to take the feat.Which feat is that?
wraithstrike is mistaken. There is no feat necessary to make any of the checks described in the Ride skill entry.
Mounted Combat is an oft misunderstood feat. It's only use is to make a ride check to negate a hit on your mount. Using the check result as the mounts AC.
|
It acts on it's own initiative.Can you point me to how you come up with this answer? I've been wondering as well...and would love to know a reference.
There is no specific guidance in the book, different groups handle it differently. I kind of prefer them together but we've run it both ways.
Do your GM a favor and ask him how he prefers to do it.
|
|
Although telepathically linked to his eidolon, does the summoner still need to make ride checks for "guide with knees" or "Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount" to make the eidolon move or attack on the summoner's turn?
And does this, from the rules for the ride skill, imply that a rider's standard action can be spent to make his mount attack? "DC 10: Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action."
Why would you need to guide your eidolon with your knees when you can say "Charge the wizard Pikachu!"... eidolons are intelligent, you shouldn't need to make ride checks to direct them.
You still have to make ride checks for other things but there is no reason you shouldn't be able to just tell them what you want them to do.
@Ogre, and in fact the "telling" is done by telepathy as a free action out of turn. So you are absolutely correct.
Someone does not agree on that though, neither the commanding without ride checks nor the off-turn free telepathy.
I don't know why they insist on making their lives difficult. :-)
The summoned ally appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn
Similar wording for summon monster.
A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform.
Given the fact that you are indeed summoning (not calling) the eidolon, it would make sense for it to follow the summon monster / ally rules and thus act on your turn. Besides we wouldn't want to make the summoner rules even quirkier by having the initiative rules differ between when you use the Summon Eidolon spell or the ritual.
Our group has two guys with Leadership, each of which has a cohort, one of the cohorts is a summoner who has a Pokemon, and one of the guys with Leadership is an evil cleric who also controls an animated dragon corpse. We also have an anti-paladin with a fiendish servant and a druid who does Dr Doolittle stuff.
If we did critters on separate initiatives, then our combats would take days. We go on same initiatives as a house rule out of sheer necessity. I think as you get higher in levels in Pathfinder, and you truly start exploiting the more valuable options in character generation, you pretty much have to change to a simultaneous style of play.
As a GM with my group in the past few months, I've had two players going at the same time, just to make sure the combat moves forward.
|
|
In our group:
My wife finds it easier to organize and make her turn when she is worried about ONE thing at a time. She actually works faster because when her turn comes up she's ready. When she has both eidolon and summoner on the same turn she gets mixed up. She finds it easier and her turns go just as quick (maybe quicker) when she runs it that way.
Personally, I like joint tactics with my character and her eidolon (and use the teamwork feats to build on that) so I wind up running them together (plus I get more mileage from Improved Initiative).
In general as a GM I let the player pick *unless* they are taking a ton of time at the table in which case I'll ask them to switch up. As a player I ask to run on the summoners init but don't complain if the GM suggests otherwise.
If I'm running an organized play table I ask the players to run everything at once because it's a bit easier to track as a GM.
My only comment is that I have had personal experience with a High Dex + Improved Initiative summoner with a Pounce built eidolon.
Letting the eidolon go on the summoners +8 init mod as opposed to its own +1 definitely tilted combat in favor of the summoner. I allowed him to either roll separately for the eidolon or just have it take his result modified by its own init (7 points lower, in this example).
Since eidolons are quite intelligent (basic int 7 for all base forms) I´d give them their own initiative phase.
Mounts are trained to obey orders and to NOT think on their own (because if they´d do that, they´d flee) so it´s just logical to let them act on the riders turn but even regular animal companions (with int 2) should act on their own... it´s a question of autonomy. Companions of int 2 get one order which is the application of the "attack" trick but after that, they basically act on their own (with int 3 they are basically completely autonome)
However, ruling that they act simultaneously to make combat easier to manage for the players is of course also no bad idea
(all that above is not the RAW, just my opinion)
Since eidolons are quite intelligent (basic int 7 for all base forms) I´d give them their own initiative phase.
Mounts are trained to obey orders and to NOT think on their own (because if they´d do that, they´d flee) so it´s just logical to let them act on the riders turn but even regular animal companions (with int 2) should act on their own... it´s a question of autonomy. Companions of int 2 get one order which is the application of the "attack" trick but after that, they basically act on their own (with int 3 they are basically completely autonome)
However, ruling that they act simultaneously to make combat easier to manage for the players is of course also no bad idea(all that above is not the RAW, just my opinion)
Familiars get their own initiative with their high int?
|
|
Given the fact that you are indeed summoning (not calling) the eidolon, it would make sense for it to follow the summon monster / ally rules and thus act on your turn.
That may be the case on the turn it arrives, but what do you do on a later turn, if the caster decides to delay, or ready an action?
He isn't going to want his combat beast standing still, just because he's intending to counterspell, dispel, or wait for a clear shot.
At that point, their initiatives would go their separate ways, right?
Ok, so does a summoned eidolon go on the summoner's initiative or his own?
In our games, any kind of creature that a player has that is a 'class feature' like familiars, animal companions or eidolons, go on that characters initiative.
Also, currently ridden mounts use the characters initiative as well. Mounts that start the combat unridded and that are not a class feature of one of the characters, get their own initiatives.
Given the fact that you are indeed summoning (not calling) the eidolon, it would make sense for it to follow the summon monster / ally rules and thus act on your turn.That may be the case on the turn it arrives, but what do you do on a later turn, if the caster decides to delay, or ready an action?
He isn't going to want his combat beast standing still, just because he's intending to counterspell, dispel, or wait for a clear shot.
At that point, their initiatives would go their separate ways, right?
It can be interpreted that effectively the summoned creature is forced to hold its action until it arrives (explains why it's a FRA to cast even). Thus its initiative is the same as yours and so 99% of the time the caster and the creature will go back to back.