Why not?
you cant just cast a spell out of a spell book.
(Cha; Trained Only)
You are skilled at activating magic items, even if you are not otherwise trained in their use.
Check: You can use this skill to read a spell or to activate a magic item. Use Magic Device lets you use a magic item as if you had the spell ability or class features of another class, as if you were a different race, or as if you were of a different alignment.
You make a Use Magic Device check each time you activate a device such as a wand. If you are using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.
You must consciously choose which requirement to emulate. That is, you must know what you are trying to emulate when you make a Use Magic Device check for that purpose. The DCs for various tasks involving Use Magic Device checks are summarized on the table below.
Task Use Magic Device DC
Activate blindly 25
Decipher a written spell 25 + spell level
Use a scroll 20 + caster level
Use a wand 20
Emulate a class feature 20
Emulate an ability score See text
Emulate a race 25
Emulate an alignment 30
Activate Blindly: Some magic items are activated by special words, thoughts, or actions. You can activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you're not and even if you don't know it. You do have to perform some equivalent activity in order to make the check. That is, you must speak, wave the item around, or otherwise attempt to get it to activate. You get a +2 bonus on your Use Magic Device check if you've activated the item in question at least once before. If you fail by 9 or less, you can't activate the device. If you fail by 10 or more, you suffer a mishap. A mishap means that magical energy gets released but doesn't do what you wanted it to do. The default mishaps are that the item affects the wrong target or that uncontrolled magical energy is released, dealing 2d6 points of damage to you. This mishap is in addition to the chance for a mishap that you normally risk when you cast a spell from a scroll that you could not otherwise cast yourself.
Decipher a Written Spell: This usage works just like deciphering a written spell with the Spellcraft skill, except that the DC is 5 points higher. Deciphering a written spell requires 1 minute of concentration.
Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you're emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don't need to make this check.
Emulate an Alignment: Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user's alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
Emulate a Race: Some magic items work only for members of certain races, or work better for members of those races. You can use such an item as if you were a member of a race of your choice. You can emulate only one race at a time.
Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.
This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.
Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item.
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Special: You cannot take 10 with this skill. You can't aid another on Use Magic Device checks. Only the user of the item may attempt such a check.
If you have the Magical Aptitude feat, you gain a bonus on Use Magic Device checks (see Feats).
It does not allow you to do so.
Arcane Magical Writings
To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture. However, each character uses the system in his own way. Another person's magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until he takes time to study and decipher it.
To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in another's spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell's level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.
Once a character deciphers a particular piece of magical writing, he does not need to decipher it again. Deciphering magical writing allows the reader to identify the spell and gives some idea of its effects (as explained in the spell description). If the magical writing is a scroll and the reader can cast arcane spells, he can attempt to use the scroll.
Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell he already knows and has recorded in his own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured. First, the wizard must decipher the writing in the book (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Once a spell from another spellcaster's book is deciphered, the reader must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level) to prepare the spell. If the check succeeds, the wizard can prepare the spell. He must repeat the check to prepare the spell again, no matter how many times he has prepared it before. If the check fails, he cannot try to prepare the spell from the same source again until the next day. However, as explained above, he does not need to repeat a check to decipher the writing.
Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook
Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.
Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until he gains another rank in Spellcraft. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.
Time: The process takes 1 hour per spell level. Cantrips (0 levels spells) take 30 minutes to record.
Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has 100 pages.
Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on the following table. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.
Spell Level Writing Cost
0 5 gp
1 10 gp
2 40 gp
3 90 gp
4 160 gp
5 250 gp
6 360 gp
7 490 gp
8 640 gp
9 810 gp
Replacing and Copying Spellbooks
A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If he already has a particular spell prepared, he can write it directly into a new book at the same cost required to write a spell into a spellbook. The process wipes the prepared spell from his mind, just as casting it would. If he does not have the spell prepared, he can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.
Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within.
Sorcerers and Bards
Sorcerers and bards cast arcane spells, but they do not use spellbooks or prepare spells. Their class level limits the number of spells she can cast (see these class descriptions). Her high Charisma score might allow her to cast a few extra spells. A member of either class must have a Charisma score of at least 10 + the spell's level to cast the spell.
Daily Readying of Spells: Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies her mind to cast her daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh herself, the character does not regain the spell slots she used up the day before.
Recent Casting Limit: Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit.
Adding Spells to a Sorcerer's or Bard's Repertoire: A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time she attains a new level in her class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: Bard Spells Known or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list she now knows. With permission from the GM, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring.
I admit I had a little trouble remembering to apply the penalties, but that was my own fault. Kirth did apply it to all monsters as far as I know. He made mention of it often enough that I felt like I could see the fighters having an effect on enemy performance.
Do you find this hard to track? I've thought about implementing something like this on occasion, but I always try to cleave to simplicity since I'm not sure my players will be on top of keeping track of their "fatigue status". Do you apply it to monsters too?
Interesting. I'll have to take an in-depth look at fatigue and ponder this some more.
this thread isn't about me wanting all classes to be casters it is about me being bugged by the fact that the game gives everyone the ability to attempt skills and to attempt attack rolls but only some classes get to attempt spells and usually with little chance not to succeed at them.
my problem isn't that sorcerers and wizards are the best at casting arcane spells or that only 3 classes don't have any class special abilities to cast spells, what my problem is with is that magic is added on to base classes the same way base attack bonuses are added on and the same way skills are added on and that even if they would fail the majority of the time a wizard can make a melee attack but a fighter cant attempt to cast a spell.
i don't see why a fighter cant pick up his unconscious wizard friends spell book and attempt to cast one if his spells.
this isn't about multi-classing or giving fighters base spells, it is just about the fact that they cant attempt it.
Besides the mentioned UMD, there is also the Master Craftsman feat. It doesn't give you "instant magic" that real casters have, but it does allow non-casters to tap into magic all on their own. Given time, even one uneducated in the magical arts can still harness magic to suit his purposes.
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*shrugs* I don't see a spellbook as anything but a binder of scrolls.
the only thing they have in common is ink and paper. a scroll of a 9th level spell is 1 page, but a 9th level spell in a book takes 9 pages. also the price difference is huge. its like sayin the wiki entry on a 72 plymouth is the same as the repair manual. Or reading a book report is the same as reading the book
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*shrugs* I don't see a spellbook as anything but a binder of scrolls.
A scroll is a completion item I believe. Once you say the final phrase, you release the magical energies stored within the scroll since the person who wrote it completed the majority of the spell and bound its magic within its parchemnt. All you need to do is say the words designed to release that magic.
A wizards book contains all the movements and syllables required to draw forth the magic initially, plus the words to then release it.
If your wizards book was just a big book of scrolls, then everytime the wizard read it, the pages would crumble to dust as the spell was used up. Then he/she would have to aquire that spell again.
However, nothing to say you can't houserule that UMD can be used to cast a spell from a spell book assuming you've taken ranks in spellcraft as well so you can actually decipher what's written there.
This investment in ranks would be similar to the investment in feats that a wizard would have to make if they wanted to swing a greatsword or shoot a longbow (unless they're an elf....damn those pointy ears), since they are not proficient in those.
While the OP states that anyone can make an attack roll or a skill roll, they are heavily limited to what that actually means. Can't attempt DC's over ten unless you're trained in many skills. Can't sneak attack unless you're trainend in it. Can't smite evil or channel energy either. There's plenty of things people can't do unless they've taken ranks in the class.
If you want rituals that anyone can use, then create them for your game. The designers of Pathfinder are constantly adding rules into their AP's for things that are only just being descovered by the players. (check out the Voodoo concept in the latest blog, or hauntings from Runelords before they made those official). You can do the same thing and just suggest it's "old magic". Maybe make the players take ranks in linguistics so they can learn the ancient ongue it's written in and that's all they need to cast the ritual.
Sure it's not official yet, but at least it will mitigate what bugs you about a system that is desgned to compartmentalise play styles.
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*shrugs* I don't see a spellbook as anything but a binder of scrolls.the only thing they have in common is ink and paper. a scroll of a 9th level spell is 1 page, but a 9th level spell in a book takes 9 pages. also the price difference is huge. its like sayin the wiki entry on a 72 plymouth is the same as the repair manual. Or reading a book report is the same as reading the book
So are you seriously trying to change my opinion here?
I guess I see in your initial post a bit of a rebellion against the traditional classes that have always existed in D&D. I have to say that over the evolution of the game many of the distinctions in the game between the classes have blurred. Every class is better in combat now, and sometimes the rogue can even outshine fighters with the somewhat cheesy (my opinion only, don't throw things) combination of generous rules for sneak attack and two-weapon fighting. Similarly, anyone willing to invest the skill points can encroach on areas once the exclusive domain of the thief. The barrier between casters and non-casters has remained more firm, although UMD and general greater avialbility of magic items has certainly eroded that a bit, as well.
Personally, I like distinct classes who each must depend on each other's unique skills to succeed. The game is all about teamwork to me, and not every character should need to be good at every thing, even combat, as I've argued before in these threads. I would actually be in favor of going back to more distinct classes than is currently the case.
There are lots of games that don't have character classes at all, and each character is capable of doing anything, depending on what skills they develop. They are a lot of fun to play, but I keep coming back to D&D/PF, both because I like the fantasy setting and I like playing the traditional character classes and filling a distinct role within a team.
In other words, when I play a fighter I let the girly-man wizard have his magic. I am armed with a large phallic symbol that proves my masculinity, so am obviously superior. Plus, my rugged physique gets me a lot more chicks than the ubernerd wizard (except of course for the ones that go for the artistic bardy types - I just don't understand them). Not to mention reading all those weird symbols makes my brain hurt. :)
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Interesting. I'll have to take an in-depth look at fatigue and ponder this some more.I admit I had a little trouble remembering to apply the penalties, but that was my own fault. Kirth did apply it to all monsters as far as I know. He made mention of it often enough that I felt like I could see the fighters having an effect on enemy performance.
Do you find this hard to track? I've thought about implementing something like this on occasion, but I always try to cleave to simplicity since I'm not sure my players will be on top of keeping track of their "fatigue status". Do you apply it to monsters too?
A neat fluff side effect of this is it underscores that being "hit" and losing hit points doesn't necessarily mean you're being struck with a weapon. It can simply imply that your block of the enemy's sword numbed and tired your arm and you're not sure you can do it as effectively again.
Gaining the fatigued and then exhausted conditions sort of highlights that view of the "meaning" of Hit points, as opposed to the description "you have 10 wounds through your torso and are still fighting".
i might be by myself in this but i realized something that bugged me just a little about dnd and pathfinder, i realized that every character in the game has an option to make a melee/ranged attack or skill checks and even CMB/CMD rolls but only some classes have an option to use magic.
now i am not saying that i think this needs changed because i am sure i am by myself in feeling this way but it just bugged me that this mechanic in the game is class dependent.
it just seems to me that magic is as much of a base mechanic as base attack or skills and i am not saying every character should be able to cast spells like a wizard or sorcerer but shouldn't a character have the option to try and cast a spell.
like i said, im just complaining here and I'm sure i am by myself in this.
I seem to recall stories where some novice has tried to cast a spell when he had no reason to be messing with magic. The Sorcerer's Apprentice(Disney story) is an example. I guess if I did it in my games the mishaps that apply to scrolls would apply to any untrained magic user.
Hmmmm . . . . there might be room for a spinoff thread here, but the first thing that came to mind as I was reading the original post is one thing that has always bugged me: regardless of the character, class and level, if you have one single hit point left, you can attack as if you were at full strength. Yes, I know the game is about the suspension of disbelief on a large level, but this just bugs the hell out of me.
I've long used (since before a certain new edition) a Pain Threshold mechanic. Damage taken to half your HP = Fort Save vrs DC 10 + your HD. Damage taken to one quarter your HP = Fort Save vrs DC 15 + your HD. Success, nothing happens. Failure, -2 pain penalty to rolls (same penalties as Shaken condition, stacks with Shaken, stacks with itself). So if you failed both your pain saves, -4 to rolls. Applies to monsters that can feel pain as well (so not so much on constructs, unless living subtype, undead, and some very case by case others).
It works well. A basic lvl 1 fighter with a con of 14 has a modifer of +4 to his fort, against DC 11 and 16 respectively. Good odds for the first, decent for the second, assuming he makes the first at least.
A first level wizard with a con of 10 has a mod of +0. Given that a 5 point damage hit will force him to make both of his saves immediately, he's likely to be feeling it.
On the higher end of the spectrum, it likewise works well with monsters. How often does a CR 20 something dragon get badly injured? I'll make up some reasonable numbers (dont have the bestiary in front of me) but a 20hd dragon with a con mod of +8 will have a fort save of +20. However, its rolling against DC 30 and 35 respectively. It fails the first pain save on a roll of 9. Thats a fairly wide margin. The second it fails on a 14.
This works in my games because bigger, more powerful (and thus less truly threatened) monsters have increasingly larger HD totals, but even good fortitude saves simply do not increase as fast as the HD they come from. So unless the creature has a truly prodigious constitution, the gulf between its fortitude save and HD based Pain DC will become wider. I find this represents the concept of "Ow! You actually hurt me! Its been two hundred years since I've felt this kind of pain!"
As a side note, I tie Pain saves into a morale system similar to 2nd Editions, and pain saves not only provoke morale checks when they come up, but they also impose their penalties if failed on those checks.
i don't see why a fighter cant pick up his unconscious wizard friends spell book and attempt to cast one if his spells.
It's like somebody, picking up a book about physics and trying to understand it... If they're smart, they might get the hang of it, eventually. Chances are, even if he is very smart, he'll need someone to teach it to him and that will take time.
Can somebody, who's never even used a computer, pick up a book written in binary and immediately apply that knowledge?
In my gaming groups, we always viewed "true magic" as something only 1% of the population has control over. All the magic items the books weren't flooding the planet. They were out there, but the common people didn't have them. Only the heroes and the anti-heroes had those items.
Magic isn't somehting easy like brain surgery... It's manipulating something that nobody can even see, hear or smell. You would never know it exosted if someone didn't create light from nowhere.
Now... those are campaigns that I played it. If you want magic common, you can house rule anything you want. The game is built a certain way to reflect the game designer's ideas. Everyone has different ideas about things.
So... you ask why it's like that... it's because it's a difference in ideas. It's easy enough to change. Just like how Dragonlance was different from all the other campaign settings. Somebody had a different idea, wrote some novels and made a new campaign.
Get writtin'. ;)
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Can somebody, who's never even used a computer, pick up a book written in binary and immediately apply that knowledge?
While I feel I'm falling on the wrong side of the debate here (I am personally in favour of a clear division between classes, for various reasons), the answer to your question is "yes, once they've cracked the relatively simple code." A "book written in binary" can be interpreted as either: a) A normal book, converted to a simple substitution cypher in base 2, or, b) A computer program. Computers use simple logic (albeit a lot of it) to preform calculations. A large portion of the work in modern computer science dates to well before the transistor, or even the vacuum tube, were even invented. You can build a wholly mechanical computer, using nothing but simple tools, if you wanted.
Taken in context with Pathfinder, example a) could be compared to a scroll or spell book written with plain text instructions on how to cast a spell (move arms here, say this word, etc) encrypted using read magic. Example b), on the other hand, could be compared to a the same spellbook or scroll, written in the clear but using specific jargon (in other words, a code instead of a cypher).
For the first example, a non-magic-user would need access to read magic somehow, but given that, there is no particular reason except experience why they couldn't cast the spells.
For the second example, the same non-caster would have to attempt to understand the underlying principles before they could cast, or, in other words, they would have to study, and thus take a level in a magic-using class.
Can somebody, who's never even used a computer, pick up a book written in binary and immediately apply that knowledge?While I feel I'm falling on the wrong side of the debate here (I am personally in favour of a clear division between classes, for various reasons), the answer to your question is "yes, once they've cracked the relatively simple code." A "book written in binary" can be interpreted as either: a) A normal book, converted to a simple substitution cypher in base 2, or, b) A computer program. Computers use simple logic (albeit a lot of it) to preform calculations. A large portion of the work in modern computer science dates to well before the transistor, or even the vacuum tube, were even invented. You can build a wholly mechanical computer, using nothing but simple tools, if you wanted.
Taken in context with Pathfinder, example a) could be compared to a scroll or spell book written with plain text instructions on how to cast a spell (move arms here, say this word, etc) encrypted using read magic. Example b), on the other hand, could be compared to a the same spellbook or scroll, written in the clear but using specific jargon (in other words, a code instead of a cypher).
For the first example, a non-magic-user would need access to read magic somehow, but given that, there is no particular reason except experience why they couldn't cast the spells.
For the second example, the same non-caster would have to attempt to understand the underlying principles before they could cast, or, in other words, they would have to study, and thus take a level in a magic-using class.
The key phrase you used is "yes, once they've cracked the relatively simple code."... So, no, somebody who's never used a computer cannot pick up a book written in Binary and IMMEDIATELY apply that knowledge. They have to "crack the code" or be taught.
Another example is someone who has a 5th grade education (the average fighter) trying to read a college algebra book. They can figure it out over time, maybe, but they can't pick it up and start doing doing equations without learning first.