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So our group got jumped by a mob of people, many of them were unarmed. So the DM has them grapple us.
My question is when it is my turn. I try to reverse the grapple. Does the opponent get the +5 circumstance for being the controlling grappler to his CMD. My DM Says that since the CMD = CMB + dex + 10 that he would get the +5 bonus for being the controlling grappler.
Thanks
CMB does not equal CMD + Dex +10. It equals BAB + Str +Dex + 10 + any deflection, dodge, insight, morale, profance, and sacred modifiers to your AC, plus any penalties. The +5 from grappling is only for when they make a check, and is not added to their defense.
So our group got jumped by a mob of people, many of them were unarmed. So the DM has them grapple us.
My question is when it is my turn. I try to reverse the grapple. Does the opponent get the +5 circumstance for being the controlling grappler to his CMD. My DM Says that since the CMD = CMB + dex + 10 that he would get the +5 bonus for being the controlling grappler.
Thanks
The way it works is:
A creature initiates a grapple against you (and lets say succeeds).
On your turn you try to reverse it against the creatures base CMD (plus any applicable bonus's, like improved grapple etc...)
If you fail that first attempt the creature then gets the +5 bonus when it attempts to maintain the grapple against you.
From d20PFSRD.com:
"If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds."
The +5 is not added to your opponents CMD. The attacker only gets the +5 on the checks it makes. You make a check to break free, they make a check to hold.
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See that's what I thought, but my DM said that the +5 is added to his CMD because, according to the SRD (which it does say) "For fast play CMD = CMB + Dex." So now at level 1 to break free of the enemies grapple it's like a 24 because they have one person helping. Since a player is grappled they have to roll a nat 20 in order to break free, which didn't make sense to me.
See that's what I thought, but my DM said that the +5 is added to his CMD because, according to the SRD (which it does say) "For fast play CMD = CMB + Dex." So now at level 1 to break free of the enemies grapple it's like a 24 because they have one person helping. Since a player is grappled they have to roll a nat 20 in order to break free, which didn't make sense to me.
What exactly was grappling you? People?
Their CMD would be like 12. Commoner has 0 BAB, top-end 13 strength. Top end 12 dex. Plus 10 = 12.
How are you getting 24? Are you adding their dexterity score instead of their dexterity modifier?
"Fast Play" are not official rules. They are short-cuts that some players use to "simplify" the rules - but in some cases, like this one, the simplification is just wrong. In this case, the fast-play rule is only correct as long as the grappler in question does not have any modifiers that affect only offense or defense (but not both) or only CMB or CMD (but not both).
In the case of the +5 bonus for maintaining the grapple, it only applies when you have successfully grappled your opponent in the previous round(s) and only when you are making a CMB check to maintain it this round.
As a general suggestion, I would advise you to ignore any "fast play" notes in the PFSRD. Or at most, never use them until you are completely comfortable that you understand the official rule first.
Thanks for the information. I could care less about what call the DM made, but the +5 for the CMD just would seem brutal and make grappling pretty powerful..