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Obviously, Wizards get very powerful, though you'll spend a few levels cringing in fear anytime someone gets within 20 feet of you.
The Summoner is also pretty powerful and worth a look.
You know what? Forget what I just said. You should be a Monk. They are super powerful and teh roxxors. Sexy monk powers like not having enough points to allocate to all the stats they need will blow your socks off. That's what you should do.
Why do you even want to make a broken PC anyway? What happened to making something just because its fun? Inquisitor is fun but not on the list of very powerful PCs. Bard, too. I know I have more fun when I think of who I'd like to be not how hard I'd like to punch.
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Hello, just curious what you guys think.
In the group I'll be playing with everybody starts at level 1 and the books being used will be the Core book and The advancend players guide.
So I was thinking that maybe a wizard could get really nasty. What do you guys think? What is the most broken thing I can make if I work at it?
The one that results in the GM having the NPC Ogre Body-builder break a 2'x4' across the character's back and then picking him up and crushing him like the wet sack of meat he is.
To reiterate what YuenglingDragon said, play a character based off of "ooo, this would be cool", or " Oh, this is an awesome idea for a character..." as not only is the Ogre Body-builder less likely to show up, but it is likely that you will be able to RP the character better.
Just remember this:
GM to Player: "Anything you can do, I can do better; I can do anything better than you."
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TBH The class I'm prollly gonna make is a multiclass half-elf paladin/sorcerer that becomes a gold dragon disciple.
That's an absolutely BEAUTIFUL character image.
The most "effective" (broken) melee combatant I ever made at 1st level, compared to the other characters in that campaign, was a Human Spellthief who used a longspear, Combat Expertise, and Improved Feint. I was pretty much guaranteed a sneak attack everytime I hit, which added 1 1/2 my Str bonus to AC. I wore spiked gauntlets for adjacent opponents. I guess for Pathfinder, you would use a Rogue.
Another very effective 1st level character I made was a Human Sorcerer that had the Draconic Heritage feat (I think), and Draconic Breath feat. It let me breathe 2d6 cones of fire by burning a 1st level spell. It toasted goblins.
But I don't think that's part of the Pathfinder Core rules.
I've also had good luck with Human Rangers using Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot and 5 foot steps.
Wow! That bonus feat at 1st level is pretty powerful at low levels!
The most powerful level 1 character in 3.5, bar none, was a dragonfire adept with entangling exhalation.
You almost couldn't lose a fight ever. It was hilariously unfair.
Go for Monk/bard. Real nasty!
Hello, just curious what you guys think.
In the group I'll be playing with everybody starts at level 1 and the books being used will be the Core book and The advancend players guide.
So I was thinking that maybe a wizard could get really nasty. What do you guys think? What is the most broken thing I can make if I work at it?
Doesn't need much work - Core Rulebook only, even.
1st level Elf wizard, arcane bond (ring), primary spells: color spray, sleep - what sleep doesn't put down, color spray will hose over pretty thoroughly at 1st.
Only feats that matter: Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Arcane Strike (which IIRC works on all weapons - free extra damage when you're down to cantrips) - not necessarily in this order.
Int 18 +2 elf = 20 starting Int, full level advancement into Int of course.
Equippage: acid, holy water, sling, 10 bullets - 2 or 3 each of cold iron and alchemical silver, later get a few adamantine ones. Spellbook, spell component pouch, traveler's outfit, standard adventurer kit (use the lighter weight stuff, your Str probably sucks).
Hire mini-onions (1st level Warriors, half-elves) if you can afford to gear 'em up (studded leather, wood shields, carry torches, lamp oil, nets, longspears, spears, light crossbows, bolts, heavy adventuring gear) - they add considerable firepower, can't be sleeped, are tough to charm, can carry lots of stuff and work for cheap (food, booze, gear and a pittance in wages).
The most powerful level 1 character in 3.5, bar none, was a dragonfire adept with entangling exhalation.
You almost couldn't lose a fight ever. It was hilariously unfair.
This. Except it's not so hilarious when the party gets bored because there's no possible challenge the DM can throw at you without being an almost assured TPK. Speaking from experience, here.
This. Except it's not so hilarious when the party gets bored because there's no possible challenge the DM can throw at you without being an almost assured TPK. Speaking from experience, here.The most powerful level 1 character in 3.5, bar none, was a dragonfire adept with entangling exhalation.
You almost couldn't lose a fight ever. It was hilariously unfair.
or when 8 kobolds shoot said dragonfire adept with crossbows in the surprise round. From out of breath range of course.. they saw what happened to jimmy..
or when 8 kobolds shoot said dragonfire adept with crossbows in the surprise round. From out of breath range of course.. they saw what happened to jimmy..This. Except it's not so hilarious when the party gets bored because there's no possible challenge the DM can throw at you without being an almost assured TPK. Speaking from experience, here.The most powerful level 1 character in 3.5, bar none, was a dragonfire adept with entangling exhalation.
You almost couldn't lose a fight ever. It was hilariously unfair.
Or the DM could just point at him and say "No you die," because once you start DM fiating deaths, why not go the extra length?
Um because the difference between GM fiat, and 8 kobolds attacking at range is...
tactics? Intelligence?
Or can the players not use such tactics either?
Good for the goose is good for the gander.
Build me! I'm so broken.
Or the DM could just point at him and say "No you die," because once you start DM fiating deaths, why not go the extra length?or when 8 kobolds shoot said dragonfire adept with crossbows in the surprise round. From out of breath range of course.. they saw what happened to jimmy..This. Except it's not so hilarious when the party gets bored because there's no possible challenge the DM can throw at you without being an almost assured TPK. Speaking from experience, here.The most powerful level 1 character in 3.5, bar none, was a dragonfire adept with entangling exhalation.
You almost couldn't lose a fight ever. It was hilariously unfair.
When the DM says no, you die the player gets sad and feels abused and nothing good can come of it.
When kobolds kill the character, the player gets to watch in horror as the kobolds cook and eat his character. It's totally different.. Really..
or when 8 kobolds shoot said dragonfire adept with crossbows in the surprise round. From out of breath range of course.. they saw what happened to jimmy..This. Except it's not so hilarious when the party gets bored because there's no possible challenge the DM can throw at you without being an almost assured TPK. Speaking from experience, here.The most powerful level 1 character in 3.5, bar none, was a dragonfire adept with entangling exhalation.
You almost couldn't lose a fight ever. It was hilariously unfair.
*crossbow bolt* I saw what you did to my friend! *crossbow bolt*
Um because the difference between GM fiat, and 8 kobolds attacking at range is...
tactics? Intelligence?
Or can the players not use such tactics either?
Good for the goose is good for the gander.
<DM> As you're walking, suddenly eight crossbow bolts fly out and kill you! Surprise!
<DM> As you're walking, rocks fall and you die! Surprise!
Hey look at all those zero differences between the two.
Well, the obvious difference would be the spot check to notice the hidden archers/falling rocks, and the attack rolls/Reflex save to see if the character gets hit. Then the damage rolls to see if the character dies from them.
It was fairly heavily implied that the dragon disciple in this case never had a chance for any of those - it was just dead right from the start.
You CAN build such a difficult encounter without go TPK. Just have few kobold notice the players and start to shoot from an higher cover.
And shape the terrain in a way DFA and party can take cover and reorganize. Make them think outside the box (say, have the fighter escort him with a towershield cover to reach the targets, stuff like this).
RPG Superstar 2013
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First: there's nothing wrong with breaking open a character. Your DM knows you and will prepare for you. Embracing broken characters makes for better encounter design, sells books, perpetuates the hobby and gives you fun stuff to talk about on these here boards. In my gaming circles, I always try to tell the best story with a fully developed character that I can - even adopting clear flaws my GM can exploit for story purposes. But I will always choose a feat or ability that let's me do something better or more powerful. I am usually pretty versatile instead of a min-maxing nightmare like my buddy Tyler (Arcane Thesis lightning bolt, yeesh!), but I am gonna cause damage, make saves, and kill bad guys.
We are planning a team of cooperative evil characters for the campaign that replaces my current Rokugan game. We have some crazy stuff happening in that game. My planned character is Senion Guaul, a barbarian prince of sorts whose tribe struck a deal with devils generations ago to survive a marching army. Gaul wields a sharrash (wicked Eberron pole arm), and other than that, my current build for him is all Pathfinder. I am using the Advanced Players' Guide options for him as a fighter. I know without finishing the character (he needs 2 feats and isn't stacking all his class features into these statistics yet), that at 20th level he'll power attack with 15' reach at darn-near +45 for 1d10+1d6 electricity+44. He'll have a 17-20 threat and a *4 crit, so every round or two he'll cause 4d10+(3d10+1d6) electricity+176 damage, with a free trip or reposition roll. I am thinking of taking Combat Patrol and getting a magic item to increase his size (unrighteous determination looks pretty good), but I don't know how often I want to give up a full round action.
Look at it this way, the more damage I cause in one round, the more time every session we have for roleplaying our twisted, evil selves. After all, Gaul will kill his father to claim his erinyes mother and the leadership of his tribe. When he dies, he knows he was born destined for Hell and will be pressed into war against demons for all eternity. He needs to hit hard!
Oh. Some of the abilities aren't figured in, but Gaul does have another non-PFRPG mechanic. He'll take levels of the Disciple of Dispater prestige class.
I'll give a few minutes thought to your wizard. I just want to defend the idea of broken characters. They can tell good stories and challenge the other gamers around you to really get to know the game. And NOTHING is so broken that a reasonable GM can't work out a solution for it. Not even pairing up a Doomspeaking, Fatespinning bard with a cleric who casts Extended implosion. That's right. That's the sort of crap I have to put up with at home.
Um because the difference between GM fiat, and 8 kobolds attacking at range is...
tactics? Intelligence?
Or can the players not use such tactics either?
Good for the goose is good for the gander.
<DM> As you're walking, suddenly eight crossbow bolts fly out and kill you! Surprise!
<DM> As you're walking, rocks fall and you die! Surprise!
Hey look at all those zero differences between the two.
Honestly that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen typed on these boards.
IF you think that it's just "crossbow bolts, you die!" then there is nothing to talk about here.
THE actual scenario would probably be:
Perception checks by the players to notice the ambush (opposed by the kobolds' stealth check).
IF the checks are successful the players notice something is off, and there isn't a surprise round and we roll initiative, the kobolds are still in their set up spot so they are probably difficult to get to.
IF the checks are not successful the kobolds get a surprise round after which we are back into normal combat.
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There is a huge difference between:
"Rocks fall everybody dies."
and
Combat where the enemy uses tactics and tries for a surprise round.
However that seems to be beyond what you can handle, so let me line the mooks up so you can walk through this encounter.
I just want to defend the idea of broken characters. They can tell good stories and challenge the other gamers around you to really get to know the game.
The man has a point.
Um because the difference between GM fiat, and 8 kobolds attacking at range is...
tactics? Intelligence?
Or can the players not use such tactics either?
Good for the goose is good for the gander.
<DM> As you're walking, suddenly eight crossbow bolts fly out and kill you! Surprise!
<DM> As you're walking, rocks fall and you die! Surprise!
Hey look at all those zero differences between the two.
Honestly that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen typed on these boards.
IF you think that it's just "crossbow bolts, you die!" then there is nothing to talk about here.
THE actual scenario would probably be:
Perception checks by the players to notice the ambush (opposed by the kobolds' stealth check).
IF the checks are successful the players notice something is off, and there isn't a surprise round and we roll initiative, the kobolds are still in their set up spot so they are probably difficult to get to.
IF the checks are not successful the kobolds get a surprise round after which we are back into normal combat.*******************************
There is a huge difference between:
"Rocks fall everybody dies."and
Combat where the enemy uses tactics and tries for a surprise round.
However that seems to be beyond what you can handle, so let me line the mooks up so you can walk through this encounter.
Did you read the initial post? What about the post after?
or when 8 kobolds shoot said dragonfire adept with crossbows in the surprise round. From out of breath range of course.. they saw what happened to jimmy..
When the DM says no, you die the player gets sad and feels abused and nothing good can come of it.
When kobolds kill the character, the player gets to watch in horror as the kobolds cook and eat his character. It's totally different.. Really..
Yeah, not seeing the perception checks or, well, any chance of defending oneself there.
Whatever happened to "role" playing?
*runs*
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So I was thinking that maybe a wizard could get really nasty.
If you go wizard I suggest you choose the conjuration specialism and the teleportation school from the APG instead of the acid dart path. Then you can teleport out of danger as a swift action and still have your full move and standard action.
The elemental wizard looks good too - limited specialist spell choice but good ones and a hugely smaller opposition spell set.
What do you guys think? What is the most broken thing I can make if I work at it?
Take a look at the one trick pony thread.
Did you read the initial post? What about the post after?
or when 8 kobolds shoot said dragonfire adept with crossbows in the surprise round. From out of breath range of course.. they saw what happened to jimmy..Yeah, not seeing the perception checks or, well, any chance of defending oneself...When the DM says no, you die the player gets sad and feels abused and nothing good can come of it.
When kobolds kill the character, the player gets to watch in horror as the kobolds cook and eat his character. It's totally different.. Really..
Nothing in any of that states "Kobolds kill you with no rolls and you have no defense."
Of course you are making assumptions about what was meant and reading much more into what was said so I shouldn't really expect better.
Hello, just curious what you guys think.
In the group I'll be playing with everybody starts at level 1 and the books being used will be the Core book and The advancend players guide.
So I was thinking that maybe a wizard could get really nasty. What do you guys think? What is the most broken thing I can make if I work at it?
Half-Orc Ranger. Level 1 feat: Razortusk. Level 2: Natural Weapon style, Aspect of the Beast - two claws. Go strength. They're all primary attacks.
Level 3 and 4: Barbarian, grabbing Lesser Field Totem rage power to have a 4th natural attack (also primary) when raging.
Hard to "break" at first level.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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If I were going to break a wizard (or spellcaster) at first level, I think I'd consider a summoner with Augmented Summoning (the text says the eidolon is summoned as if by a summon monster spell), and a well-built eidolon, plus some useful spells. You are looking at a stout combatant at level one, with two sets of actions per round. Were I a human, I'd take Spell Focus (conjuration), Augmented Sumoning, and Weapon Focus (long spear). A +2 Strength bonus would give me +3 to hit in melee for 1d8+3 (x3) damage, not bad. My quadruped eidolon would have claws, pounce and extra natural armor, meaning it has three attacks at +7 to hit on a charge, dealing 1d6+4/1d4+4/1d4+4. It makes its Acrobatics checks on those charges, has an AC of 16 (still 14 on the charge), and has 10-11 hit points (using the alternate favored class award to boost it by 1). It's charge distance is 40 feet, so it might be able to full attack every round. You have a reach weapon to help defend yourself or it. As spells, I'd take acid splash, guidance, resistance, lesser rejuvenate eidolon, and grease. Note you'll get three spells per day if you can get to 20 Charisma, idicating Ability Scores much like 14, 14, 12, 12, 11, 20.
Your eidolon is a great combatant at first level, you aren't bad, and your grease spell can be cleverly applied to make enemies less capable fighters, or less able to reach you or your eidolon. Also, if you have to grease a place your eidolon goes to fight, it has a pretty good +4 to its roll, unless you give it Lightning Reflexes, which I might for synergy's sake. I might instead give it Improved Initiative or Weapon Focus (claw). Once your eidolon dies, you can still cast augmented monster summoning spells as standard actions 6 or 8 times that day, assuming you'd rather summon them for your attack than actually put yourself in harm's way. I recommend celestial/fiendish vipers! 17 hp and a DC 15 Fort save for poison? Yes!
Fortunately, it gets much better in every way at 2nd level, so this isn't a build that front-loads success at 1st level and pays for it later. If you want to break the character further, consider the merits of the malconvoker prestige class. I am not sure I'd take anything but summoner, but maybe a few levels of this class can really offer some juice!
Level 5 Summoner:
Cha: 21 and max Use Magic Device, Grease, and Evolution Surge (lesser) with Augment Summoning.
Biped Eidelon:
Evolutions: Improved Damage (Claws), Bite, Improved Damage (Bite), Reach (Claws), Pull (Claws), Improved Natural Armor, Ability Score Increase (Str). Unbuffed Str score of 20 (ability score increase went to Con to increase multiplier).
Full attacking: Two claw attacks with reach at + 9 for a combined 2d6 + 10. Hit with either, free combat maneuver check to bring it closer for a bite attack at 1d6 + 5. Can't 5' step away because of reach, so nice battlefield control for combat only.
Grease the area for even more likelihood to hit. Evolution Surge (lesser) for utility or simply a temporary additional 1d6 of Elemental Damage. Augment Summoning for Summon Monster for if the Eidelon dies, Summon Eidelon (especially if it just died) for Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance (though it can be dispelled and Protection from alignment would function against it.)
Oh, and Use Magic Device? Among other things, for the wands of True Strike to be used with Share Spell for a + 20 to hit on its next attack. Next level, dump an evolution or two to take Rend.
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Also possible for this build: max out Intimidate for the Eidelon, give it skilled, make it a class skill, and give it Intimidating Prowess. It'd have a base intimidate of 20.
Mmmh I'd go for a Witch with the sleeping Hex, a lot of fun, you can put a whole city to sleep and save or die are always fun for the DM... :p
Half-Orc Ranger. Level 1 feat: Razortusk. Level 2: Natural Weapon style, Aspect of the Beast - two claws. Go strength. They're all primary attacks.
I feel it necessary to point out that the bite attack from Razortusk is considered a secondary attack when used in a full attack action, so what you suggest is actually primary claw/primary claw/secondary bite.
Still very nice, especially once you Imp Nat Weapon them up to 1d6.
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The charging warrior actually CAN pull that trick in dungeons. Reduce animal is the spell that makes it possible. And reduce person, of course. Sure, damage goes down a die. But it still gets doubled on a charge...