test to see if this works.
test 2
I see 'em. They work for me :)
Maybe next time. :(
Maybe next time. :(
Yup, opportunities do come along.
Map works for me.
Well, I'm glad to hear. I did quite a bit of angry swearing on computers and the lack of ease in setting this up to work properly.
I would still be swearing without Kald's instructions (though even with those I still had some trial and error before I got the spreadsheet to show enough on the screen to take a screen shot and then get the paint program to trim the chunks that I wanted to trim.)
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While you move forward to attack the womprat you seem to hear a voice or a memory fragment in your mind. It says, 'No, never from anger. You must never strike from anger.' At the same time that you hear the first voice, you hear another, it says, 'Passion is power. Without passion, we are just things. Release your passion.' As you hear those words, you feel your fingers tingle as you slash at the womprat.
...
I just want to make sure I'm acting in an appropriate manner towards my goal. I don't necessarily need this guy to be a jedi (whether or not he was trained as one). I see him as more trying to straddle the line between light and dark. Kiddrik doesn't necessarily know he's trying to do so, but I want to play him as such. Being able to benefit from his passion yet knowing restraint is necessary.
Should I expect a guy like this to be accruing dark side points? Or should he constantly be almost accruing them? All of my decisions so far have been made this way (well, except for the doll thing), and i'm not shooting for a nirvana-chasing lightsaber hippy.
Just want to make sure my expectations are set right for this type of character, and that I understand how to act to help him attain it.
In my games Greys tend to maintain an equilibrium of gaining and losing, and often almost doing it too. As long as you never have too many, then in my opinion you're playing it right.
I just want to make sure I'm acting in an appropriate manner towards my goal. I don't necessarily need this guy to be a jedi (whether or not he was trained as one). I see him as more trying to straddle the line between light and dark. Kiddrik doesn't necessarily know he's trying to do so, but I want to play him as such. Being able to benefit from his passion yet knowing restraint is necessary.Should I expect a guy like this to be accruing dark side points? Or should he constantly be almost accruing them? All of my decisions so far have been made this way (well, except for the doll thing), and i'm not shooting for a nirvana-chasing lightsaber hippy.
Just want to make sure my expectations are set right for this type of character, and that I understand how to act to help him attain it.
We are playing in the period of the Knights of the Old Republic. While there is a Jedi Counsel, they don't have the strength or the considered right to police Jedi. Right now, the Jedi Counsel is more of a vigilante group. If they see problems then they will try to organize Jedi to work together to resist the problem.
They are not the supreme law of Jedi. There code of conduct is stricter then most Force users consider is necessary. Ideas like not marrying are seen as against the 'good' of the Force which is based on the idea of life. The idea of 'attachments' is a very foreign idea just being promoted at this point but very few outside of the Jedi Counsel have really considered it.
Fear, Anger, and Hatred are still considered the big problems.
But others use other words and feel that life is filled with other acceptable choices like passion instead of the Jedi focus on single control.
Game wise, it all depends on what you want.
You are not considered 'lost' to the Dark Side of the Force until your Dark Side points equal your Wisdom. Anything between 1 and less then your Wisdom is gray.
If you do have a single Dark Side point then it does impact your ability to use the Force. You can not use Force Points to add to your ability to use the Force with any Light descriptor Force Powers.
Atoning is possible by doing good things to overcome evil. Beating up garden variety criminals usually doesn't count as atoning. Atoning is when you take down a significant Dark Side Threat.
If you have significant time to meditate and study, then you can also work to reduce your dark side total (like Luke returning to Yoda after the Empire Strikes Back or his establishment of an Academy following Return of the Jedi).
Unless you are really working at it, I don't see people picking up more than one dark side point per adventure (even that shows some effort ~ Heck, Anakin slaughtered a whole village of desert raiders and still wasn't over to the Dark Side though the GM would probably have awarded a good half dozen for that act.)
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Just so's i understand, so what if I use my emotions, but am doing inherently good things? Do i gain light side? dark-side? or stay even keel?
Or what if I do evil things in a very emotionally-controlled way? Good because i'm in control? BAd because I"m doing bad things? or again, even keel because they balance?
It seems to me like it's a 'damned if you do; damned if you don't' situation unless you're a jedi doing intentionally good things without the supplement of your emotions.
It's a slippery slope, and left deliberately vague and heavily in GM hands, the rulebook does say that once per level you may spend a force point to lose a dark side point through quiet meditation on how you've been a very naughty boy. ;)
GM question: Do you want us to roll double damage dice on a critical or would you rather just double the resulting damage dice?
GM question: Do you want us to roll double damage dice on a critical or would you rather just double the resulting damage dice?
My past experience has suggested that I prefer people to roll the extra damage.
The reason is that I have seen people (me often enough) roll terrible on the regular damage (like 2 1s on d6) and doubling a total of 2 just doesn't feel like 'Critical' damage. At least doubling the number of dice rolled gives a bit better odds of getting at least the average of damage rolled if not more.
BTW in previous editions of Star Wars, you had advantages connected with Dark Side points.
d6 allowed you to spend them like Force Points.
d20 also had a mechanic for spending them and the bonus they gave to an action was related to your level.
I didn't see anything in the core Saga book but the way it was written suggested there was supposed to be such a rule.
Any of the GM's here know of any advantage or bonus to reward people for having dark side points?
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That is interesting, and I'd be interested to know the answer. I mean, all i can find is that dark side points limits some of your options for light side power (of which there are very few).
Alternately, it seems odd that there are dark side points and no light side points. It assumes that everyone starts fully light side then slides to evil...in stead of assuming people start somewhere in the middle and have to choose to go light or dark.
Yes, but you have to take certain talents to use them, there are a few examples of this with different applications.
BTW in previous editions of Star Wars, you had advantages connected with Dark Side points.
d6 allowed you to spend them like Force Points.
d20 also had a mechanic for spending them and the bonus they gave to an action was related to your level.
I didn't see anything in the core Saga book but the way it was written suggested there was supposed to be such a rule.
Any of the GM's here know of any advantage or bonus to reward people for having dark side points?
Force points are generic. They are neither light, nor dark from what I can tell. Actions determine if a character gets Dark side points.
I believe it is in place assuming players play good guys. Just like many D&D games have the "evil" rule if you commit an evil act and your alignment shifts, your character becomes an NPC.
If you don't mind evil characters, then DSPs are fine.
Dark side points allow freedom to use many powers without fear. A huge one is Force Grip. This is a game-breaking force power but I can't think of any Light side applications or instances where it wouldn't apply a DSP.
My group house rules that you can use Force Grip and choose not to inflict damage, thus making it more useful to Jedi. Similarly, in combat when fighting bad guys/droids it's not really any more evil than say battlestrike or move object which can easily be used by Jedi.
Huzzah! I finally found what they did with the 'old' Dark Force Point rules.
They did like they did with many things in Saga and turned it into a Talent Tree.
Pg 101 Core Book has the Dark Side Talent Tree. Particularly the first Talent of 'Power of the Dark Side' which allows you to roll +1d6 when you spend a Force Point to increase an attack roll. You gain a Dark Side point when you use this Talent.
Your Dark Side Points are just a barometer of Good verses Evil in this version of the game. You start good (though if you choose the Dark Side Talent tree then you are headed for Evil quicker then some :> ).
A score of 5 or a score of 10 are mechanically equal.
The only big numbers are 0 and your Wisdom score. Even when you reach your Wisdom score your character technically has the opportunity for a Heroic Ending which can purge the dark side from their soul before moving on.
My group house rules that you can use Force Grip and choose not to inflict damage, thus making it more useful to Jedi. Similarly, in combat when fighting bad guys/droids it's not really any more evil than say battlestrike or move object which can easily be used by Jedi.
LOL, yeah, droids never apply to my equations when considering light and dark side.
WTG Black Valkyries!
Experience is 250 each. That should bring everyone up to 500xp so far.
So we've done one skill encounter and one combat encounter. You've had a chance to see what my style of gaming and GM rulings tend to be.
I've learned how to upload maps (many thanks for the directions on that); so, in future that should go better.
Since there are several GMs here, any advice or criticism that you would like to give?
I know that I learned Non-Heroics go down fast in Saga.
I used the Rebel Trooper (CL 1) profile for Boss Breed (modified to have piloting as a class skill by slightly increasing Int) <3 Non-heroic levels>. Core Book pg 280.
I used the Thug (CL 1) profile for the Humans (modified again for piloting) <2 Non-Heroic levels>. Core Book pg 284.
I used the B1 Series Battle Droids (CL 1) for the three Droids (no modification so they weren't 'trained' pilots) <3 Non-Heroic levels>. Core Book pg 199.
I got the Womprats from Threats to the Galaxy and were CL2 with 3 beast levels. I considered making them easier as I feared their hit points were almost double the hit points of most of the rest of the creatures in the encounter (beasts having d8 per level verses non-heroic having d4 makes a big difference quickly).
Technically, it was 10 CL of opponents verses your 6 characters or a ratio of just under 2 with the added advantage to your group of a prepared ambush and potential surprise.
Well I'm certainly enjoying things so far, but yeah the game is designed so a single blaster shot will kill the average person. Heroes are far from average, so we're special. It does take a heroic enemy to give a real challenge though, I often find that the book rates CLs a tad under to be honest. So for a challenging encounter you need to raise the CL a bit more than recommended, not too much though or it becomes to hard. It's a delicate balance.
That worked well for a first real combat though, about right difficulty wise assuming that was supposed to be a simple opener before we go on to harder stuff. I look forwards to more!
Yayh! XP!
Well I'm certainly enjoying things so far, but yeah the game is designed so a single blaster shot will kill the average person. Heroes are far from average, so we're special. It does take a heroic enemy to give a real challenge though, I often find that the book rates CLs a tad under to be honest. So for a challenging encounter you need to raise the CL a bit more than recommended, not too much though or it becomes to hard. It's a delicate balance.
That worked well for a first real combat though, about right difficulty wise assuming that was supposed to be a simple opener before we go on to harder stuff. I look forwards to more!
I love the story so far! The backdrop of not knowing has been a fun RP hook. So far so good.
In my group, they are almost 4th level. The ONLY real challenge for them has been a CR+3 challenge with more opponents than PCs, including two large sized melee types that really packed a wallop.
With Force Points and higher than normal defenses, PCs are extra-ordinary. I find the combats have been challenging but not necessarily deadly. Trust me, when the PCs roll poorly, which they will, it won't always be a cake walk. We had two crits and practically every shot hit so don't always expect that as the norm.
Oh, I recognize the map of the encounter.
Things that threw me were the bonus to Reflex from Fighting Defensively. A +10 dodge bonus is monstrous. You may not be attacking but you can avoid all but shots backed by force points. I can see this as major Villain flee card if needed (note to self good villains need trained in Acrobatics or Pilot).
The damage of the weapons was also more than I am used to in games like Pathfinder. First level characters having weapons that do 4d6 (grenades) and 3d8 (some blasters) is more than the usual 1d6 to 1d10 damage of most fantasy weapons.
It really shows up when some opponent is listed as having 3 levels but that gives them just 10 or so hit points (a third of the hp of starting jedi or soldier).
On the other hand, the grunts, if they roll lucky and get a critical could still wipe a player character down to 0 hp in one shot with those same sort of weapons (no -10 or -Con before death in these rules).
I stuck to slug throwers on this encounter for both thematic reasons and to make sure I didn't one shot any of the characters if I could avoid it. The biggest weapon was Boss Breed's slug thrower which I set as a four shot 'Dirty Harry' style .5 cal brute. I gave it 3d6 damage which on a critical could do 6d6 and really hurt any of the characters or possibly take them out.
So, I can see if the players ever get on an unlucky streak of the opposition gets a lucky day that this combat's results could be far from typical.
Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. The weapons are supposed to be very deadly, blasters are in Star Wars. Where it gets wierd is higher levels, with the heroes and everyone they fight able to take multiple hits. Blaster fire scales with talents and damage bonuses, but grenades get strange because they're hugely powerful at 1st level, about balanced at fifth, but by 10th and higher you can pretty much ignore them.
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I've been enjoying it as well. I'm lamenting my lack of force powers, but I'll get them as we level, so no sweat there. (Plus, that was my choice, and not anything to do with the combat or story.)
I havde another question, though. Can i block a slug-thrower with my lightsaber? I mean, it only shows them blocking energy weapons in the movies, but the mechanics simply say "ranged attacks".
Another old argument, shields are easy because they specifically say energy shields, but there are scientific and fictional explanations for both, so it's usually just a GM call. Rules as written though you can.
So... to the Bat Cave, um I mean cargo bay?
I've been enjoying it as well. I'm lamenting my lack of force powers, but I'll get them as we level, so no sweat there. (Plus, that was my choice, and not anything to do with the combat or story.)
I havde another question, though. Can i block a slug-thrower with my lightsaber? I mean, it only shows them blocking energy weapons in the movies, but the mechanics simply say "ranged attacks".
Block is for melee ~ sorry for being literal on that because I understand what you meant.
Deflect is for ranged.
My view is a mixture of movie/TV and my understanding of the lightsaber from books and game sources.
If you can Deflect Energy weapons then you can Deflect solid projectiles (provided they are in a reasonable level of scale to the lightsaber being used ~ A crashing starfighter coming at you could be called a ranged attack but Deflect is not going to stop it.) Arrows, spears, and solid slugs can all be deflected.
You can not use Redirect unless it is an energy attack. After you run your lightsaber through a slug or an arrow there really isn't much left to 'redirect'.
Could you after using Deflect pick up the pieces of say a spear and hurl it back at someone? Yes but that is what Move Light Object and Move Object are for.
Sound good?
That's exactly the same as what I do. *nods*
Common sense wins.
ROFL!!!! Kiddrick's post about losing his job, mirroring mine, was CLASSIC! Kudos Kidd!
GM question.
How do you handle Skill Training? Strictly by the book it indicates that you have to choose a skill that is a class skill.
If you want a skill not on your list of class skills must you take a level in a class with that class skill?
I was wondering because I was looking at the Soldier Draw Fire Talent which is based on Persuasion which is not a Soldier class skill. You can do it as an untrained skill but you would never be able to get 'good' at if you were a soldier.
GM question.
How do you handle Skill Training? Strictly by the book it indicates that you have to choose a skill that is a class skill.
If you want a skill not on your list of class skills must you take a level in a class with that class skill?
I was wondering because I was looking at the Soldier Draw Fire Talent which is based on Persuasion which is not a Soldier class skill. You can do it as an untrained skill but you would never be able to get 'good' at if you were a soldier.
RAW, yes, it must be a class skill. Some Talents give you access to non-class skills such as the Persuasion tree for Jedi.
Yeah, you'd have to dip into say Noble, which can be good for Leadership talents for Officer types. The talent is designed with that intent.
Sorry about the threadjack Stormchaser/HK. I hate the spoiler sections on Paizo since anyone can open them.
My bad!
Just a reminder to all you rocket pack users.
Quick question, do you want me to hand wave and move you out to the hyperlimit to pick up Snow White?
Your group has enough trained pilots that a DC 15 shouldn't be a problem.
That would be great, things seem to be grinding to a crawl.
That would be great, things seem to be grinding to a crawl.
+1 - move 'em out!
Just a reminder to all you rocket pack users.
ROFL. Wait until I get the flamethrower talent with my jet-pack. Then I'll really emulate Wile E. Coyote!