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Starting at 4th level, a rogue can
react to danger before her senses would normally allow
her to do so. She cannot be caught f lat-footed, even if the
attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to
AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose
her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses
the feint action (see Chapter 8) against her.
1. The pinned condition says a person who is pinned cannot move, but may make a escape artist check or a roll against the attackers cmd to try and break out of being pinned. It does not say that a person pinned is immobilized, and i guess since they can try and get out they arnt. Is this correct?
2. Does shield provide bonuses to you if you are grappled? This is the shield spell I'm referring to specifically.
3. The high ac player in my group has a high ac for everything except Flat footed and i cannot attack his flat footed Ac without resulting to poisoning or other ( if constantly encountered) annoying to the players things.
For instance he was separated from the rest of the party in the dungeon. The "creature" in the encounter with him had a plus 13 to hit and i could not hit him without rolling a 20 because of the critical rules stating that i have to still hit his ac with anything but a roll of a 20, and then to confirm i have to roll a twenty again because his ac is so high. I had to pinn him in a grapple and force him to try and break free every turn while she raked him over and over.
He is gestalt and has levels in duelist now, so his ac just went up, has levels in dragon disciple for more stat bumps and ac bumps.
His ac while walking around is 28, and if he can get it off 34 with shield and mage armor. 10 + 5 dex + 2 armor + 3 wis + 2 int + 3 natural armor + 2 monk ac + 1 deflection +1 dodge, +4 shield, +2 mage armor
My question is do all of these mods to his Ac stack and under what conditions do they not function.
4. One mod i know about is that i thought amulets and other magical sources or natural armor don't stack with natural armor that a creature has as part of its base statistics. I could be wrong about this though.
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2-yes, you always get the bonus from the shield spell
4-the natural armor stacks. Innate natural armor stacks with "enhancements bonus'" to natural armor, i.e. spells and amulets. so a cow with a natural armor bonus of 7 and an amulet of natural armor+# has 10 natural armor. (That cow might also be a minotaurs mother)
also, why are you only getting 2 ac from mage armor? its 4 ac.
and yes, all those listed stack. different bonuses stack. and dodge bonuses stack with eachother (unlike any other bonuses, those overlap)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary---final#TOC-Armor-Cl ass-AC-
So, he's wearing studded leather armor, and when he casts Mage Armor, he gains 2 AC?
So he's a monk/duelist/dragon disciple/sorceror gestalt then, am I correct?
This is what's wrong, and why you're seeing his AC so high. He's gestalt!!
But on the flip side, here's what's actually wrong...
AC Bonus (Ex): When and unencumbered,
the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his
CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD
at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk
levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks
or when the monk is f lat-footed. He loses these bonuses
when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any
armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a
medium or heavy load.
and
Canny Defense (Ex): When wearing light or no armor
and not using a shield, a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence
bonus (if any) per duelist class level to her Dexterity bonus
to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon.
and finally
Studded leather 25 gp +3 +5 –1 15% 30 ft. 20 ft. 20 lbs.
The max dex of studded leather is +5, and a duelist adds their Int mod to their Dex when doing AC... but their Int mod+Dex mod is still capped by their armor's max dex.
You said, "His ac while walking around is 28, and if he can get it off 34 with shield and mage armor. 10 + 5 dex + 2 armor + 3 wis + 2 int + 3 natural armor + 2 monk ac + 1 deflection +1 dodge, +4 shield, +2 mage armor"
His actual AC is 10 base + 5 Dex + 2 armor + 3 wisdom + 1 deflection + 1 dodge + 4 shield + 2 mage armor for a total of 28.
Now, if he were to not wear studded leather, and rely on his Mage Armor instead of real armor, he'd have 34. He's also an AC-focused gestalt character and that could mean you should throw gestalt-balanced enemies at him. I'm going to assume he's something like 10th level? A +13 to hit on a CR10 creature meant to challenge is pansy stuff. This guy should be fighting packs of CR 12 monsters.
Maybe a monster that casts dispel magic? Or a person who casts it at him?
3. Any time you roll a natural 20 the attack hits and threatens a critical. If you don't succeed on the critical, you still inflict normal damage. It doesn't sound like you were doing this.
Also, if you are able to grapple him, but not hit him normally with attacks, throw some monsters at him that have damaging auras or whip up some advanced fiendish dire crocodiles. Or even just a normal dire crocodile. CR 9, +30 CMB for grapple, and Death Roll!
When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check. As it clings to its foe, it tucks in its legs and rolls rapidly, twisting and wrenching its victim. The crocodile inflicts its bite damage and knocks the creature prone. If successful, the crocodile maintains its grapple.
Starting at 4th level, a rogue can
react to danger before her senses would normally allow
her to do so. She cannot be caught f lat-footed, even if the
attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to
AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose
her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses
the feint action (see Chapter 8) against her.1. The pinned condition says a person who is pinned cannot move, but may make a escape artist check or a roll against the attackers cmd to try and break out of being pinned. It does not say that a person pinned is immobilized, and i guess since they can try and get out they arent. Is this correct?No. Immobilized means "unable to move" so if you are immobilized by a pin you are unable to move and thus subject to a sneak attack. It doesn't matter how catlike your reflexes are, it someone has you in a camel clutch you can't do anything to keep your kidneys away from their knife.
2. Does shield provide bonuses to you if you are grappled? This is the shield spell I'm referring to specifically.Yes. Its a big shimmering disk of force and tries to block for you even when you're otherwise occupied.
3. The high ac player in my group has a high ac for everything except Flat footed and i cannot attack his flat footed Ac without resulting to poisoning or other ( if constantly encountered) annoying to the players things.how is his ac that high? Check to make sure nothings stacking that shouldn't be. An ac of 33 is VERY high at a level where something only has a+13 base attack bonus.
For instance he was separated from the rest of the party in the dungeon. The "creature" in the encounter with him had a plus 13 to hit and i could not hit him without rolling a 20 because of the critical rules stating that i have to still hit his ac with anything but a roll of a 20, and then to confirm i have to roll a twenty again because his ac is so high. I had to pinn him in a grapple and force him to try and break free every turn while she raked him over and over.You don't need to confirm all of your hits.. you don't need to make each attack roll twice. You only need to confirm CRITICAL hits. One roll of a natural 2o automatically HITS. Whether it CRITS or not depends on the second roll.
His ac while walking around is 28, and if he can get it off 34 with shield and mage armor. 10 + 5 dex + 2 armor + 3 wis + 2 int + 3 natural armor + 2 monk ac + 1 deflection +1 dodge, +4 shield, +2 mage armor+2 mage armor and the +2 armor don't stack.
The armor bonuses don't stack with the +wis and +int, but a mage armor spell and a shield spell do.
mage armor should be +4, unless they're bracers?
My question is do all of these mods to his Ac stack and under what conditions do they not function.
4. One mod i know about is that i thought amulets and other magical sources or natural...Amulets of natural armor stack with existing natural armor.
His actual AC is 10 base + 5 Dex + 2 armor + 3 wisdom + 1 deflection + 1 dodge + 4 shield + 2 mage armor for a total of 28.
Now, if he were to not wear studded leather, and rely on his Mage Armor instead of real armor, he'd have 34.
Apologies; what I posted above still had Wisdom to AC because I was dumb.
His actual AC is the above minus wisdom for 25. 34 without armor.
Just to assist the above DM. I'm wearing Bracers of Armor +2, not studded leather. My build is Rogue 4/Fighter 1/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Dis 3 - Monk 7/Duelist 2. We started playing Gestalt with just 2 players for the last 2 adventures.
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quote: Lordluney, 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
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Just to assist the above DM. I'm wearing Bracers of Armor +2, not studded leather. My build is Rogue 4/Fighter 1/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Dis 3 - Monk 7/Duelist 2. We started playing Gestalt with just 2 players for the last 2 adventures.
Me: Well i don't really want my players reading my post about such things but apparently i cannot stop them. But yes his statement is correct. I regret making them gestalt. It provides to much power for them to utilize as being a normal class progression is powerful enough as it is.
My mistake aside. For those of you that replied he is wearing bracers of armor +2 and Thus he has no max dexterity, and when he casts mage armor he only gets plus 2 because it doesn't stack with other armor, just overlaps.
Big Nose Wolf Said:
+2 mage armor and the +2 armor don't stack.
The armor bonuses don't stack with the +wis and +int, but a mage armor spell and a shield spell do.
mage armor should be +4, unless they're bracers?
Me: So are you saying that his plus 2 bracers of armor do no stack with his wisdom and Int modifiers ? and if that is so where can i read a ruling on that so that my players don't think I'm just being cheap.
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quote: Lordluney, 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Flag
| List | FAQ | ReplyJust to assist the above DM. I'm wearing Bracers of Armor +2, not studded leather. My build is Rogue 4/Fighter 1/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Dis 3 - Monk 7/Duelist 2. We started playing Gestalt with just 2 players for the last 2 adventures.
Me: Well i don't really want my players reading my post about such things but apparently i cannot stop them. But yes his statement is correct. I regret making them gestalt. It provides to much power for them to utilize as being a normal class progression is powerful enough as it is.
My mistake aside. For those of you that replied he is wearing bracers of armor +2 and Thus he has no max dexterity, and when he casts mage armor he only gets plus 2 because it doesn't stack with other armor, just overlaps.
Big Nose Wolf Said:
+2 mage armor and the +2 armor don't stack.
The armor bonuses don't stack with the +wis and +int, but a mage armor spell and a shield spell do.
mage armor should be +4, unless they're bracers?
Me: So are you saying that his plus 2 bracers of armor do no stack with his wisdom and Int modifiers ? and if that is so where can i read a ruling on that so that my players don't think I'm just being cheap.
bracers of armor do stack with those things. studded leather wouldnt (and people were under the impression it was studded leather)
If he's using bracers of armor +2, then everything about his build is legal. A bit cheesy, but legal.
I get the sense you're a bit desperate about the situation-- a person you cannot hit is basically boring, IMO, for you and the person playing the character.
I would just make him fight CR 16-17 monsters. A Level 16 fighter would have a good +25/+20/+15 to hit for 2d4+34 15-20/x2. That sounds honestly like a reasonable challenge. Might one shot him, which may be reason enough to prove to him that maybe he shouldn't get in an arms race with an omnipotent being.
It's either that or make him face similar enemies. See how he likes a mirror match? I am pretty sure that with his slew of 3/4 BAB levels he won't be able to hit his own AC unless he rolls a 20 either.
EDIT:
So like...
Rogue - Fighter
Rogue - Sorceror
Rogue - Monk
Rogue - Monk
Dragon Disciple - Monk
Dragon Disciple - Monk
Dragon Disciple - Monk
Duelist - Monk
Duelist - Monk
So a combined BAB of... 9, and he flurries as if he had BAB7, which is completely moot because he already does.
Yeah, I don't see him hitting AC34 unless he scores a hail Mary.
At this point I think the biggest issue is the level of challenge being thrown at this character.
A Rogue/Monk Gestalt is going to be hard to hit. In fact, this particular build is set up to gain as many little stacking AC bonuses as possible (and yes, to echo others, those all stack). Thats not really a problem...except that a Gestalt character like this one can get a multitude of AC bonuses that any 14th or 15th level regular character might have trouble competing with.
A Gestalt character (after level 1 or 2 at least) should definitely be counted at +1 CR or even +2 CR depending on characters, magic items and style of play. That should hopefully even things out a little.