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Paizo Employee Creative Director

Diego Rossi wrote:
I was hoping Paizo could publish an article giving them a nudge in the direction of some possible solution.

Well... doesn't the spell teleport trap, which appears in the Inner Sea World Guide and is thus assumed to be known to anyone and everyone who plays Golarion games, do the trick? :-)

In any case, publishing advice articles like this isn't really something we have a place for anymore. That type of article was GREAT for Dragon magazine, but they don't really fit into anything we do these days except something, I guess, like the Gamemastery Guide, which is already published and, if I remember correctly, DOES offer some advice on the topic.


Wisdom applies to a lot of things both in the real world and in the game world.

Wisdom in a way is knowledge or understanding of the basic principles of existence. If you're wise it means you can understand the reason for things in a way that is more intuitive.

It makes sense for Wisdom to be connected to perception as someone wise would likely perceive things on a deeper level than someone who isn't. A wise person gleans more information from the same scene compared to an unwise person.

Likewise it makes sense wisdom is connected to divine magic and realms beyond the material because they 'understand' greater truths about the universe and it's fundamental structure.

I think of intelligence as being about knowledge and memory. The ability to use things like complex formulas without having to think hard.

Charisma is exactly what it says but I think it also relates to self perception. Which is why I personally think it seems fine for things like sorcerers or paladins who's power (in my mind) is based around how virtuous or powerful they imagine themselves to be.

Just some thoughts.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Troodos wrote:
Dear James Jacobs, are the serpentfolk based on the Pantathians from the riftwar saga

Nope.

I suspect both are based on Robert E. Howard's and Lovecraft's serpentfolk, though.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

LilithsThrall wrote:
So, what you're saying is the rules don't make sense in a verisimilitude sort of way, they just are what they are. Therefore, I should not try to make sense of them in the way that I'm trying to.

That's not what I was trying to say, but it sounds like that's what you think I said, so that's fine with me.

Remember... it's a game. And that game decided about 35 or so years ago that there were six ability scores. There's a lot of characteristics to be included under that arbitrary group of six arbitrarily chosen values. Do the six make for perfect, empirical summations of the human condition in all possible cases? Absolutely not. But they make for fun gaming, and that's what matters in this context.

Reading too much more into it is just kinda annoying, in my opinion, and takes the fun out of things.

So if it doesn't make sense to you, my advice is to just shrug and move on. The alternative, coming up with a homebrew solution that rebuilds what ability scores exist, how many they are, and what they do would change the game so fundamentally that you'd be playing a different game. And probably not one I would want to play or write for, frankly.


James Jacobs wrote:
XperimentalDM wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
'Rixx wrote:

I have also considered moving to Seattle. As a Vegas resident, I'm used to the world around me being devoid of life for the most part, as we're smack dab in the middle of a blazing desert.

So, I guess what I'm asking is: what's the bug factor in Seattle?

Not that bad at all. The biggest issue that comes to mind are the big spiders—we've got some doozies up here, including the horrifying hobo spider, whose bite can put a grown man in the hospital.

Not a lot of things like mosquitos or ants or other pesty bugs in my experience though. The bug factor is quite bearable, but I have a high tolerance for bugs. In that I'm a big fan of big spiders...

Holy crap! Those things are real? I thought that was just a joke in a Penny-Arcade Strip.
Hobo spiders are horrifyingly real, yes. They're one of those rare spiders that matches its frightening size and appearance to a frightening venomous bite, unlike say the tarantula (which is big and scary but not that poison) or the brown recluse (which is brown and tiny and boring but can put a grown man in the hospital where he'll wish he were dead).

Got bit by one of those myself. Still have a scar. It hurt like hell and did a fair bit of tissue damage. Necrotic, blackened skin, the whole bit. Luckily I treated it almost immediately.


James Jacobs wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
So, what you're saying is the rules don't make sense in a verisimilitude sort of way, they just are what they are. Therefore, I should not try to make sense of them in the way that I'm trying to.
That's not what I was trying to say, but it sounds like that's what you think I said, so that's fine with me.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I asked for the underlying non-mechanical framework that explains why things are assigned to the attributes they are assigned to. Instead of providing that framework, you replied "because that's how it was done in 3.0" (which isn't the same as providing such a framework - it is only a no-prize). If there's only a no-prize, then trying to look at the rule set in such as way as to make sense of them in a verisimilitude sort of way is a waste of time.

I don't know why it's so difficult to get a straight answer to my question, but I appreciate the time you've given


James,

Is Pathfinder a system that may see expansion (say into sci-fi or modern, or different settings within fantasy (outside golarion))?

Or is the Pathfinder RPG and the Pathfinder APs tied together for the forseeable future?


James Jacobs wrote:
Black XIII wrote:

you will ever make a hardcover commerative version of RotRL with

the updated rules?
Yes. Next Paizocon. June of 2012.

Sorry if this ends up being a duplicate question.

Do you foresee any editorial changes to the content when this is re-released? Specifically a change to the content in such a way as to make it 'more family friendly'?

The content to which I refer is pretty much the main reason I'd want to buy it. But I will not buy if it's been gutted.

Thanks in advance!
Confused in California

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
LilithsThrall wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
So, what you're saying is the rules don't make sense in a verisimilitude sort of way, they just are what they are. Therefore, I should not try to make sense of them in the way that I'm trying to.
That's not what I was trying to say, but it sounds like that's what you think I said, so that's fine with me.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I asked for the underlying non-mechanical framework that explains why things are assigned to the attributes they are assigned to. Instead of providing that framework, you replied "because that's how it was done in 3.0" (which isn't the same as providing such a framework - it is only a no-prize). If there's only a no-prize, then trying to look at the rule set in such as way as to make sense of them in a verisimilitude sort of way is a waste of time.

I don't know why it's so difficult to get a straight answer to my question, but I appreciate the time you've given

AUGH!

I did answer your question. Multiple times! Just because I also said "That's how it's done in 3rd edition" doesn't magically erase everything else I wrote back to you about the topic.

From my VERY FIRST answer to your question:

James Jacobs wrote:

Wisdom is a measure of your ability to interpret your surroundings; perception, picking up on social cues, picking up on faith, and overall common sense. It's akin to your mental Constitution.

Charisma, on the other hand, is more about your own sense of self; your self-confidence, your conviction that you are a separate thing from the rest of existence, your drive to make yourself memorable or better, and your overall personality and appearance. It's akin to your mental Dexterity.

Wisdom is how you mentally interact with the world, Charisma is how you present YOURSELF to the world. Both are requirements for creatures, because if you can't mentally interact with the world and can't present yourself to the world, you're an object.

Nowhere in that initial thread did I mention anything about how it was done in previous editions. I only brought that topic up a few posts AFTER it seemed apparent that you were still confused and having trouble with my initial answer. Which is, indeed, a "straight answer" as far as I can tell and as far as I can present it.

Anyway, I have said what I feel needs to be said, in that first post; continuing this line of discussion is pointless. You're either not interested in what I have to say, more interested in vexing me than actually hearing what I have to say, or we're just completely miscommunicating to each other exactly what we want to talk about.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tebbo wrote:

James,

Is Pathfinder a system that may see expansion (say into sci-fi or modern, or different settings within fantasy (outside golarion))?

Or is the Pathfinder RPG and the Pathfinder APs tied together for the forseeable future?

Pathfinder can absolutely support expansion into different genres. I've got a post-apocalyptic/Lovecraft mythos game using the Pathfinder Rules (it's called "Unspeakable Futures") that I've been tinkering with for over a decade (it originally was a 3.0 variant).

But a Paizo-published expansion? That's unlikely. One of Pathfinder's keys to success is the fact that we didn't just do a Core Rulebook. We support that core rulebook with a line of Adventure Paths and modules, a line of player's companions, and an entire campaign setting. If we did a sci-fi or modern Pathfinder ruleset, we'd need to do the same amount of support in order for it to be as successful, and that would more or less mean doubling our editorial staff, which isn't something we have physical room to do in our building. So that's unlikely to happen anytime soon... from Paizo, at least.

I do expect to see plenty of non-fantasy alternative setting type games using the Pathifnder rules to pop up from other publishers. In fact, I believe that's already happening.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Confused in California wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Black XIII wrote:

you will ever make a hardcover commerative version of RotRL with

the updated rules?
Yes. Next Paizocon. June of 2012.

Sorry if this ends up being a duplicate question.

Do you foresee any editorial changes to the content when this is re-released? Specifically a change to the content in such a way as to make it 'more family friendly'?

The content to which I refer is pretty much the main reason I'd want to buy it. But I will not buy if it's been gutted.

Thanks in advance!
Confused in California

There'll be a lot of editorial changes. Errors will be fixed. Underpowered encounters will be beefed up, and overpowered ones will be brought in line. Confusing areas will be clarified. New encounter areas and other expansions will be included. The whole thing will be rebuilt to serve as a single book rather than 6 separate books.

We will NOT be changing the maturity level of the content, either to make it more "family friendly" or to make it "more adult themed." I'm quite proud of Rise of the Runelords, and that includes the fact that it's got a lot of gritty, spooky, mature topic elements to it. That won't change.


James,

Thanks a lot for the response. Your personal campaign sounds really interesting. Do you sneak bits of that into Golarion? :)

Ah this is maybe something you can't answer but does Paizo use only in-house graphic designers or do you also use freelancers remotely?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tebbo wrote:

James,

Thanks a lot for the response. Your personal campaign sounds really interesting. Do you sneak bits of that into Golarion? :)

Ah this is maybe something you can't answer but does Paizo use only in-house graphic designers or do you also use freelancers remotely?

I sneak bits of my home game into Golarion all the time. I've been building my homebrew game since 1982 or thereabouts, so there's a lot of stuff there I can draw upon when I'm building Golarion.

We use freelance artists almost exclusively, but we also use 100% in-house graphic designers. As with editors and developers, the realities of the demands of a monthly publishing operation more or less requires all of our graphic designers to be full-time employees that work on site.

That said... we do periodically need new graphic designers, so keep an eye on our job postings page here!


James Jacobs wrote:
That said... we do periodically need new graphic designers, so keep an eye on our job postings page here!

Heh. Was that on purpose?


LilithsThrall wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
So, what you're saying is the rules don't make sense in a verisimilitude sort of way, they just are what they are. Therefore, I should not try to make sense of them in the way that I'm trying to.
That's not what I was trying to say, but it sounds like that's what you think I said, so that's fine with me.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I asked for the underlying non-mechanical framework that explains why things are assigned to the attributes they are assigned to. Instead of providing that framework, you replied "because that's how it was done in 3.0" (which isn't the same as providing such a framework - it is only a no-prize). If there's only a no-prize, then trying to look at the rule set in such as way as to make sense of them in a verisimilitude sort of way is a waste of time.

I don't know why it's so difficult to get a straight answer to my question, but I appreciate the time you've given

Because the person you really need to ask this question to requires the spell speak with dead or perhaps a time machine.

Liberty's Edge

Two rules questions:

1) the Jabberwock and lesser Jabberwock DR is /Vorpal. It can be bipassed by a paladin Smite Evil power?
By RAW the Smite Evil power will overcome it, but the special nature of the creature make that a bit ... underwhelming

2) Master Craftsman. As it hasn't the special: you can take this skill more than once row it seem that his feat can be taken only once.
I don't see why it can't be taken multiple times with different skills.
Can you enlighten me on the reason behind that choice?


I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

Liberty's Edge

John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

You don't want to add a "Social AC" based on your charisma?

LOL
I agree.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Diego Rossi wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

You don't want to add a "Social AC" based on your charisma?

LOL
I agree.

Of course not. Based on James' previous statements, Wisdom is your mental defense, not Charisma - Social AC obviously is based on Wisdom therefore! :)


I, for one, would definitely buy the Advanced Social Guide PDF, as I do for most hardcovers (due to being income-impaired and not yet a GM). Good luck!


After finishing Carrion Crown I was a little disappointed in one thing. Why doesn't Pharsma have servants like or among her psychopomps that are specifically capable of permanently destroying powerful undead. It seems that this would be a major concern for her. Can we get some undead destroying (or eating) monsters in the future?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Fredrik wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
That said... we do periodically need new graphic designers, so keep an eye on our job postings page here!
Heh. Was that on purpose?

It was if folks think that makes me smarter and wittier!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Diego Rossi wrote:

Two rules questions:

1) the Jabberwock and lesser Jabberwock DR is /Vorpal. It can be bipassed by a paladin Smite Evil power?
By RAW the Smite Evil power will overcome it, but the special nature of the creature make that a bit ... underwhelming

2) Master Craftsman. As it hasn't the special: you can take this skill more than once row it seem that his feat can be taken only once.
I don't see why it can't be taken multiple times with different skills.
Can you enlighten me on the reason behind that choice?

1) It does. Whether or not that makes the special power underwhelming or it makes the paladin's smite even cooler depends on how you look at it. Not every group has a paladin, and even those who do still have characters who aren't paladins, so the jabberwock's DR still matters.

2) Probably just an oversight; there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to take the feat more than once. That said... you could certainly say that being able to craft magic stuff without being a spellcaster requires incredible focus on your chosen craft, and thus multiple crafts would just distract you.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

Look at the rules we've done for feasts, banquets, plays, trials, and similar social encounters we've done in adventures before for an example of how I would like to see this type of content be created for such a book. None of those introduce concepts like social AC or replace actual roleplaying.

And the book wouldn't be called "Ultimate Social." That's a silly title.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Fredrik wrote:
I, for one, would definitely buy the Advanced Social Guide PDF, as I do for most hardcovers (due to being income-impaired and not yet a GM). Good luck!

Seems like my idle comment requires me to come up with a workable name for such a book. Let's call it:

"The Aristocrat's Guidebook"

...for now, then.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The Guardian Beyond Beyond wrote:
After finishing Carrion Crown I was a little disappointed in one thing. Why doesn't Pharsma have servants like or among her psychopomps that are specifically capable of permanently destroying powerful undead. It seems that this would be a major concern for her. Can we get some undead destroying (or eating) monsters in the future?

Because we have hardly finished statting up psychopomps. A psychopomp that specifically fights undead is a cool idea.


James Jacobs wrote:
Getting some of our more bloodthirsty combat-mongering designers and developers and managers here at Paizo to sign on to help produce such a book would, I suspect, be difficult. But MUCH easier if our customers were vocal in their demands/requests for such a book. I'd LOVE to do a book like this, though.

I KNOW this sounds like sarcasm, but I'm being serious about this bloodthirsty questions. Would these rules include ways to disrupt/ruin social events short of mass slaughter? I'd love the system to have rules on not just killing someone, but first crushing their dreams/reputation.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

dunelord3001 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Getting some of our more bloodthirsty combat-mongering designers and developers and managers here at Paizo to sign on to help produce such a book would, I suspect, be difficult. But MUCH easier if our customers were vocal in their demands/requests for such a book. I'd LOVE to do a book like this, though.
I KNOW this sounds like sarcasm, but I'm being serious about this bloodthirsty questions. Would these rules include ways to disrupt/ruin social events short of mass slaughter? I'd love the system to have rules on not just killing someone, but first crushing their dreams/reputation.

Party crashing and humiliation and political sabotage and rumormongering and mudslinging are all aspects of this type of scene, so yeah, it would indeed be included, I would hope.


James Jacobs wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
So, what you're saying is the rules don't make sense in a verisimilitude sort of way, they just are what they are. Therefore, I should not try to make sense of them in the way that I'm trying to.
That's not what I was trying to say, but it sounds like that's what you think I said, so that's fine with me.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I asked for the underlying non-mechanical framework that explains why things are assigned to the attributes they are assigned to. Instead of providing that framework, you replied "because that's how it was done in 3.0" (which isn't the same as providing such a framework - it is only a no-prize). If there's only a no-prize, then trying to look at the rule set in such as way as to make sense of them in a verisimilitude sort of way is a waste of time.

I don't know why it's so difficult to get a straight answer to my question, but I appreciate the time you've given

AUGH!

I did answer your question. Multiple times! Just because I also said "That's how it's done in 3rd edition" doesn't magically erase everything else I wrote back to you about the topic.

From my VERY FIRST answer to your question:

James Jacobs wrote:

Wisdom is a measure of your ability to interpret your surroundings; perception, picking up on social cues, picking up on faith, and overall common sense. It's akin to your mental Constitution.

Charisma, on the other hand, is more about your own sense of self; your self-confidence, your conviction that you are a separate thing from the rest of existence, your drive to make yourself memorable or better, and your overall personality and appearance. It's akin to your mental Dexterity.

Wisdom is how you mentally interact with the world, Charisma is how you present YOURSELF to the world. Both are requirements for creatures, because if you can't mentally interact with the world and can't present yourself to the world, you're an object.

...

We're clearly completely miscommunicating. My question was more about things like "why are perception and having faith tied to the same attribute" and your answer seems to be "there's no organized framework, it's just been cobbled together over the years". I can look at the core book to see what is associated with each attribute, but I'm trying to figure out *why* so many disparate things get bundled together with each other (bloodline with bluffing, perception with getting prayers answered, the ability to learn shoe making with the ability to get extraplanar beings to agree to the terms of a pact).

Being told "it's just been cobbled together over the years that way, there's no particular rhyme or reason" frees me from trying to figure out something for which there is no answer.


LilithsThrall,
I was in the middle of writing up a really good explanation, but then I realized it seems like your just trolling at this point. James answered your question in like 4 different ways and at least as many posts.

I fully understood him the first time, yet you seem unable or unwilling to. So i said screw it, why would you listen to me, if you won't listen to JJ.

Speaking of the lovely creative director,
If your proposed "Aristocrat's Guidebook" had rules for creating and running a Mafia like organization, I would buy you a dinosaur. Not sure where I would find one, but I will and you shall have it!!

Question: why is Inner Sea Magic so amazing?? the more I read it, the more and more I loves it :) Thank you again for helping make such a badass book!!


(various comments about Wisdom snipped)

In a theistic universe, an overtly theistic one, like Golarion, religious faith may well be linked to common sense and general awareness. The gods are present, if you're discerning enough... Or so I always thought. Wisdom folds in para-perception and the sixth sense in with the regular senses, and hence, the actuality of the gods is one of the things that high Wisdom folks kind of ken on their own.

This is quite different from the meaning of faith in our universe, which is a philosophical "leap" absent strong empirical evidence. But strong empirical evidence does exist in Golarion.

That's my tuppence, anyway. Maybe this needs its own thread, though.


James Jacobs wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

Look at the rules we've done for feasts, banquets, plays, trials, and similar social encounters we've done in adventures before for an example of how I would like to see this type of content be created for such a book. None of those introduce concepts like social AC or replace actual roleplaying.

And the book wouldn't be called "Ultimate Social." That's a silly title.

Yes I do like the rules in the recent Jade Regent AP....still getting others to see those. But sometime people feel the need(or desire to) put as much rules in Social RP as there are in combat...and I just view that has a horrible mistake. Not saying you would...but who knows what will happen between now and then.

Yes I was mentioning 'Ultimate Social' as a joke.

How about...some more serious suggestions...

Nobles & Ballrooms
Advanced Social Engineering
Adventures in Intrigue
Beyond the Dungeon
The Social Handbook
101 Ways to have fun with Pathfinder without ever swinging a sword(ok that was less than serious)


John Kretzer wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

Look at the rules we've done for feasts, banquets, plays, trials, and similar social encounters we've done in adventures before for an example of how I would like to see this type of content be created for such a book. None of those introduce concepts like social AC or replace actual roleplaying.

And the book wouldn't be called "Ultimate Social." That's a silly title.

Yes I do like the rules in the recent Jade Regent AP....still getting others to see those. But sometime people feel the need(or desire to) put as much rules in Social RP as there are in combat...and I just view that has a horrible mistake. Not saying you would...but who knows what will happen between now and then.

Yes I was mentioning 'Ultimate Social' as a joke.

How about...some more serious suggestions...

Nobles & Ballrooms
Advanced Social Engineering
Adventures in Intrigue
Beyond the Dungeon
The Social Handbook
101 Ways to have fun with Pathfinder without ever swinging a sword(ok that was less than serious)

Lace & Steel had some interesting social conflict rules. Characters took damage to their self-image and reputation rather than hp loss.

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:


Chupo ended up gettting into print back in the Dungeon days in Richard Pett's "The Devil Box," when I needed a name for one of the kobolds in the adventure.

Hoorah!

Carry on...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hi James. My 2-year-old daughter knows what dinosaurs are, loves to pretend to be a Tyrannosaurus, and her first complete sentence was "Piper roll dice?"

How would you rate my parenting skills? ; )


When the 'Eye of the Arclord' feat from the Inner Sea Guide is in use, should it be treated as an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability (or as something else altogether)?
From the point of view of another character trying to shut down or otherwise block use of this feat, should the caster-level (if that would be appropriate) of the feat's granted abilit(y/ies) be treated as character level, level of character's arcane spell-casting classes, or as something else?
Is making use of the Detect Magic function of the Feat (when the Eye is in use) an 'at will' that can be used as needed whilst the Third Eye remains open? (Detect Magic lapses when concentration is lost, so what I'm asking here, for example, is can a character using the feat open the eye to study a treasure chest with the assistance of the Detect Magic function, let the Detect Magic lapse to fight off a guardian, then resume the Detect Magic (if duration of the Eye and time permits) to continue the study of the chest)?


John Kretzer wrote:
Yes I do like the rules in the recent Jade Regent AP....still getting others to see those. But sometime people feel the need(or desire to) put as much rules in Social RP as there are in combat...and I just view that has a horrible mistake. Not saying you would...but who knows what will happen between now and then.

I tend to disagree with this to some extent. Rules have two reasons to be (probably many more but for the purpose of this discussion). One is to define the mechanical interactions of entities in the shared social fantasy of the role playing universe. These are the rules that many people focus on. These are the types of rules that if you optimise and power game you can make stronger characters with. They are necessary rules but I agree that heavily codifying roleplaying interactions will lead to power gaming socially as well as in combat.

However, the second, and to my mind far more fascinating, aspect of rules are to create possibilities. What do I mean? Say you did not have rules for magic, but you roleplayed all spell effects. You would be limited to what spells you or your GM could dream up. Pathfinder provides spell rules, many of which are just plain cool ideas that fire (at least my) imagination. Same with combat rules, some feats (and definitely some which people decry as "weak" or "trap" feats) are fantastic for use by villians or NPCs, and would not be perhaps so great on a PC. But these feats (rules) fire the imagination, and bring things into combat that are amazing, not able to be performed in real life. Somebody at Paizo has thought up just plain cool things that we can use as players and GMs to add flavor to our games.

Therefore I submit, that done well, social rules would work very well if they skew towards the second category of my rule types (ie add ideas and flavor). Of course some will power game them. But that is up to you as a player in the end.

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Fredrik wrote:
I, for one, would definitely buy the Advanced Social Guide PDF, as I do for most hardcovers (due to being income-impaired and not yet a GM). Good luck!

Seems like my idle comment requires me to come up with a workable name for such a book. Let's call it:

"The Aristocrat's Guidebook"

...for now, then.

Cocktail Parties Revisited!


uriel222 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Fredrik wrote:
I, for one, would definitely buy the Advanced Social Guide PDF, as I do for most hardcovers (due to being income-impaired and not yet a GM). Good luck!

Seems like my idle comment requires me to come up with a workable name for such a book. Let's call it:

"The Aristocrat's Guidebook"

...for now, then.

Cocktail Parties Revisited!

I know we're all joking around, but the really interesting social interactions are things like:

Distracting the guard/boss/too powerful to mess with monster while the party does their thing (a traditional aspect of caper movies and spy stories);
A fraught conversation with a dangerous local or intimidating guy who could be either friend or foe;
Attempting to calm down the freaking out guy with the wand of fireballs;
Explaining to frightened children or NPCs that you're here to help, and they need to follow your instructions very carefully...

At least for me. Clever repartee is easy compared to all that. I'd think a good PF rulebook would work in ways to address all of these that are a little more complex than "Diplomacy" or "Bluff roll, please." Though the main issue for social interactions is that players want to RP them, not roll them, in a good game. And the dice kind of act like spoilers - either a crutch for the witty rogue character played by the laconic IP guy, or a frustration for the barbarian character played by the player who really wanted that romance angle.
It strikes me that since negotiation and social interaction is a third of the game (fighting, talking, and equipment maintenance, really in terms of table time), maybe what PF is a Noncombat Guide/Pastimes Guide/Interaction Guide. With a whole bunch of NPC/non-dungeon-crawly oriented rules (noncombat spells, health and disease, crafting, village building, consolidated kingdom guide, adventure hooks for sheriffs and village priests and non-peripatetic adventurers, wit and guile, seduction rules, etc.).


James, can some special/unique monster attacks like the Ghost's Corrupting Touch, the Wraith's touch or the Lantern Archon's Light Rays deal critical damage? And in a case such as that of the Wraith, is the Constitution drain multiplied too (universal monster rules do not specify this)?


1)In the Pathfinder society field guide on page 45 there is picture of a woman enveloped by black tentacles, what are they/is it?

2)Why does Paizo dislike Prestige classes? I mean I would love to see a Celestial, Fey, verdint, elemntal, etc. version of the dragon desciple plus prestige classes that combine classes like monk/sorcerer, monk/oracle, bard/druid, druid/sorcerer, alchemist/gunslinger, etc.

3)Aslo the Tatooed sorcerer archtype was interesting but giving up the 9th level bloodline power for something so weak/subpar is a turn off to use it. Why not have this as a bloodline, feat tree, or prestige class?

4)How many monsters are statted up in the Land of the linnorm kings?

5)Why not have the mute curse for the Oracle fully finished for what it grants?

6)Why not have a book that uses the real world dieties and stat up there domains, subdomains, favored weapon, etc.? I mean from many cultures not just greek, norse, and egyptian but also celtic, japanese, chinese, native american, hindu, south american, etc.

7)Why not have a moon domain for those of us who like to homebrew?

Liberty's Edge

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James Jacobs wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

Look at the rules we've done for feasts, banquets, plays, trials, and similar social encounters we've done in adventures before for an example of how I would like to see this type of content be created for such a book. None of those introduce concepts like social AC or replace actual roleplaying.

And the book wouldn't be called "Ultimate Social." That's a silly title.

How about Ultimate Intrigue? To keep in line with the Ultimate name (which I am a fan of)

The Exchange

I just dropped back in to add yet another "Yes please" to some form of social guide, when I saw this.

Jeff de luna wrote:


It strikes me that since negotiation and social interaction is a third of the game (fighting, talking, and equipment maintenance, really in terms of table time), maybe what PF is a Noncombat Guide/Pastimes Guide/Interaction Guide.

That's a good way to put it, I think.

James, is a feat or trait more appropriate for - Tardy Wits : It's difficult to deceive you for long. You may re-roll a failed Sense Motive check with a +5 bonus, but only after 4 hours have passed. Enlightenment usually comes when in the carriage on the way home.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Monkeygod wrote:

If your proposed "Aristocrat's Guidebook" had rules for creating and running a Mafia like organization, I would buy you a dinosaur. Not sure where I would find one, but I will and you shall have it!!

Question: why is Inner Sea Magic so amazing?? the more I read it, the more and more I loves it :) Thank you again for helping make such a badass book!!

I suspect that rules for building ANY organization (including a Mafia-like one, but not limited to it) would be a big part of the Aristocrat's Guidebook.

And thanks for the kind words about Inner Sea Magic!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

cynarion wrote:

Hi James. My 2-year-old daughter knows what dinosaurs are, loves to pretend to be a Tyrannosaurus, and her first complete sentence was "Piper roll dice?"

How would you rate my parenting skills? ; )

At about 98 out of 100. Get your daughter to SPELL Tyrannosaurus and that'll go up to 99. :-)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

When the 'Eye of the Arclord' feat from the Inner Sea Guide is in use, should it be treated as an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability (or as something else altogether)?

From the point of view of another character trying to shut down or otherwise block use of this feat, should the caster-level (if that would be appropriate) of the feat's granted abilit(y/ies) be treated as character level, level of character's arcane spell-casting classes, or as something else?
Is making use of the Detect Magic function of the Feat (when the Eye is in use) an 'at will' that can be used as needed whilst the Third Eye remains open? (Detect Magic lapses when concentration is lost, so what I'm asking here, for example, is can a character using the feat open the eye to study a treasure chest with the assistance of the Detect Magic function, let the Detect Magic lapse to fight off a guardian, then resume the Detect Magic (if duration of the Eye and time permits) to continue the study of the chest)?

Eye of the Arclord is a supernatural ability. As such, its effects cannot be ended via dispel magic; you need antimagic to block supernatural abilities. Since the detect magic effect normally would only depend on CL would be the duration... but since the feat sets a duration of its own, there shouldn't ever be a need for figuring out what this feat's CL is. But if you did... the general rule is that CL = HD if nothing else says anything to the contrary.

While the eye is open, detect magic is constant; no need to concentrate unless you want to narrow down on things or study objects.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Astral Wanderer wrote:
James, can some special/unique monster attacks like the Ghost's Corrupting Touch, the Wraith's touch or the Lantern Archon's Light Rays deal critical damage? And in a case such as that of the Wraith, is the Constitution drain multiplied too (universal monster rules do not specify this)?

If you roll an attack roll, you get the chance to do critical hits. You don't want to be critically hit by a ghost at all. Being critically hit by something that does ability damage is also bad since it does indeed multiply that damage.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Dragon78 wrote:

1)In the Pathfinder society field guide on page 45 there is picture of a woman enveloped by black tentacles, what are they/is it?

2)Why does Paizo dislike Prestige classes? I mean I would love to see a Celestial, Fey, verdint, elemntal, etc. version of the dragon desciple plus prestige classes that combine classes like monk/sorcerer, monk/oracle, bard/druid, druid/sorcerer, alchemist/gunslinger, etc.

3)Aslo the Tatooed sorcerer archtype was interesting but giving up the 9th level bloodline power for something so weak/subpar is a turn off to use it. Why not have this as a bloodline, feat tree, or prestige class?

4)How many monsters are statted up in the Land of the linnorm kings?

5)Why not have the mute curse for the Oracle fully finished for what it grants?

6)Why not have a book that uses the real world dieties and stat up there domains, subdomains, favored weapon, etc.? I mean from many cultures not just greek, norse, and egyptian but also celtic, japanese, chinese, native american, hindu, south american, etc.

7)Why not have a moon domain for those of us who like to homebrew?

1) That's a spooky statue being guarded by some sort of eldritch Lovecraftian sea monster; it's there pretty much to serve as an illustration for "generic unnamable Lovecratian horror."

2) Paizo does not dislike prestige classes. I actually quite like them; I actually like them better than archetypes. But there absolutely WAS a bloating of prestige classes during the 3rd edition era, and a lot of gamers got sick of them, and as a result we saw a LOT of "don't do prestige classes" from our customers, and so we didn't. I think that now we're at a place where we COULD start doing prestige classes again. And so we have been; but generally in things like the APs or the Campaign Setting line. And we'll keep doing them. More if more folks ask for them.

3) Because sorcerers already have a lot of bloodlines and very few archetypes. And don't underestimate the value of being able to cast a spell as a spell-like ability, especially one that functions a +2 caster levels. The main advantage spell-like abilities have over spells is, of course, that they don't use components at all.

4) There's 4 sample NPCs (like the longship captain or the raider), and if I remember correctly about 6 new monsters.

5) Because it was presented as an NPC curse, not a PC option. We didn't have room to fully stat it up for PCs in the adventure, and since it appeared IN an adventure, the assumption was that PCs wouldn't have access to it really anyway. And on top of that, it's a kind of curse that I don't think is a good option for PCs anyway—having seen a mute PC in play, it was pretty frustrating and lame and resulted in a PC that none of the rest of us knew anything about.

6) I think such a book would be a GREAT idea and would LOVE to do it. This opinion is, alas, not shared by everyone at Paizo. If we saw a lot more demand and excitement for such a book, chances of the powers that be deciding that it WOULD be a good idea would really help us get it off the ground.

7) When we first created Golarion, we were using the 3.5 rules and didn't have a core rulebook; we used the D&D Player's Handbook as that core rulebook, and expanded on the domains available in that book with the other SRD domains made open content by WotC. A moon domain was not among those available—Wizards DID create a moon domain for the Forgotten Realms, but that domain was closed content so we couldn't use it. And since we didn't have our own core rulebook, we didn't have a centralized place to PUT a moon domain.

When we did eventually switch to Pathfinder, we grandfathered in all of the domains we'd been using, including the ones that were open from the SRD... but again... no moon domain. By this point we had 2 years of momentum with Golarion NOT having a moon domain, and more to the point, not having a deity that grants a moon domain, so we kept going rather than suddenly have a deity grant a weird new domain he or she could never grant before.

Recently, we were going to put a moon domain into the upcoming "Dragon Empires Gazetteer" and finally have a proper moon deity to go along with it... but as it turns out, there actually are very few spells to support a moon domain. Looking back at the Forgotten Realms Moon Domain from 3rd edition, we see evidence to support that—nearly half of the domain spells for that domain are brand new spells since there simply weren't good options for such a domain in the core rules. And since we have no room to stat up new spells in the "Dragon Empires Gazetteer" (and if we did, having them have an unusual percentage of moon-themed spells would be weird in a book supposedly about Tian Xia), we had to abandon the idea of doing a Moon Domain for that book.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Coridan wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

I would like to add my vote to the Social rulebook...as long it does not use terms like 'Sovcial AC' Or your 'social to hit roll'.

And as long as it is not named Ultimate Social.

And the rules don't replace actual role-playing.

Look at the rules we've done for feasts, banquets, plays, trials, and similar social encounters we've done in adventures before for an example of how I would like to see this type of content be created for such a book. None of those introduce concepts like social AC or replace actual roleplaying.

And the book wouldn't be called "Ultimate Social." That's a silly title.

How about Ultimate Intrigue? To keep in line with the Ultimate name (which I am a fan of)

Nah... I'm actually NOT a fan of the "Ultimate" line of names going on forever. Three books is about my limit, and with Ultimate Combat coming next year, we're at that limit.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

brock wrote:

James, is a feat or trait more appropriate for - Tardy Wits : It's difficult to deceive you for long. You may re-roll a failed Sense Motive check with a +5 bonus, but only after 4 hours have passed. Enlightenment usually comes when in the carriage on the way home.

Since it's much easier to gain feats, and you gain more of them, it's generally a good rule to make things like this feats just because of that.

That said, this ability seems a little underpowered even so—especially since a lot can happen in 4 hours. I can't really see much of a use for this feat aside from frustrating a player with knowledge that could have helped but now only torments him.

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