Look at how close a "basic" EK build (Ftr1/Wiz6/EK10/Wiz2/Ftr1) stacks up against a Magus with 3/4 BAB, Sorcerer Spell progression, d8 hit dice:
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BASE ATTACK BONUS
LVL EK MAGUS
1 - 1 - 0
2 - 1 - 1
3 - 2 - 2
4 - 2 - 3
5 - 3 - 3
6 - 3 - 4
7 - 4 - 5
8 - 5 - 6
9 - 6 - 6
10- 7 - 7
11- 8 - 8
12- 9 - 9
13- 10- 9
14- 11- 10
15- 12- 11
16- 13- 12
17- 14- 12
18- 14- 13
19- 15- 14
20- 16- 15
HIT POINTS
LVL EK MAGUS
1 - 10- 8
2 - 12- 13
3 - 16- 18
4 - 20- 23
5 - 24- 28
6 - 28- 33
7 - 32- 38
8 - 36- 43
9 - 44- 48
10- 50- 53
11- 56- 58
12- 62- 63
13- 68- 68
14- 74- 73
15- 80- 78
16- 86- 83
17- 92- 88
18- 96- 93
19-100- 98
20-106-103
CASTER LEVEL
LVL EK MAGUS
1 - 0 - 1
2 - 1 - 2
3 - 2 - 3
4 - 3 - 4
5 - 4 - 5
6 - 5 - 6
7 - 6 - 7
8 - 6 - 8
9 - 7 - 9
10- 8 - 10
11- 9 - 11
12- 10- 12
13- 11- 13
14- 12- 14
15- 13- 15
16- 14- 16
17- 15- 17
18- 16- 18
19- 17- 19
20- 17- 20
HIGHEST SPELL LEVEL
LVL EK MAGUS
1 - 0 - 1
2 - 1 - 1
3 - 1 - 1
4 - 2 - 2
5 - 2 - 2
6 - 3 - 3
7 - 3 - 3
8 - 3 - 4
9 - 4 - 4
10- 4 - 5
11- 5 - 5
12- 5 - 6
13- 6 - 6
14- 6 - 7
15- 7 - 7
16- 7 - 8
17- 8 - 8
18- 8 - 9
19- 9 - 9
20- 9 - 9
How would it treat the other sorcerer abilities? Bloodline and the like?
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There is no need for a "Magus" class. It already exists.
It's called the Arcane Duelist, a Bard variant.
3/4 BAB, d8 hd, casting in Light Armor and Shield (with medium and heavy later on). Free combat feats, such as Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Disruptive, and Spellbreaker. Lots of party buffs and support magics, with absolutely no abilities whatsoever that require actual singing to trigger.
Sure, the Arcane Duelist only gets up to 6th level spells, but he gets most of the really good buffing and control spells, sometimes at lower level than a Wizard would.
Besides, the Magus as currently posted is broken. Dropping bloodlines does not come even close to matching either the BAB or the hit dice, much less the other things the class would need, like the ability to cast spells while wearing light armor.
The "gish" problem has been pretty much solved. A Bard (Arcane Duelist varient) is a solid melee combatant with a wide variety of tricks and abilities. A Half-Orc Bard (either Arcane Duelist or Savage Skald varient) is brutal in melee.
I'm not sure what more one could reasonably ask for, given the need to have balanced classes.
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How would it treat the other sorcerer abilities? Bloodline and the like?
Well, obviously no one knows what Paizo will do at this point since the class is still pretty far off.
However, for one possible balanced approach to this class archtype, you might check out the Vanguard from Super Genius Games.
If you like the Arcane Duelist bard variant, you also might be interested in checking the vanguard out.
I have it on good authority that it's not a bad little class :)
Has there been any official information on what the Magus class will be? I'd hope it won't be 3/4 BAB class with 6 levels of spells. The Arcane Duelist fills that position at the moment and the Summoner or Alchemist kind of do as well to point since they all are arcane casters. It would make much sense to have another class like that.
Now a arcane spell caster with spells up to 4th, D10 hit dice and full BAB sounds more like what it should be as there isn't a class like that yet.
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Now a arcane spell caster with spells up to 4th, D10 hit dice and full BAB sounds more like what it should be as there isn't a class like that yet.
You're unlikely to see that. I suppose there is some room to replace a ranger spells and other class abilities with arcane spells, but I don't think anyone would be happy with the results.
Now a arcane spell caster with spells up to 4th, D10 hit dice and full BAB sounds more like what it should be as there isn't a class like that yet.You're unlikely to see that. I suppose there is some room to replace a ranger spells and other class abilities with arcane spells, but I don't think anyone would be happy with the results.
Tejon's Iron Mage class is exactly that, with results enough make many happy to play it IMO. It's still a work in progress, but its pretty solid (going onto v9.0). See it here for yourself, and there's a more recent tangent on the second page.
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Has there been any official information on what the Magus class will be? I'd hope it won't be 3/4 BAB class with 6 levels of spells. The Arcane Duelist fills that position at the moment and the Summoner or Alchemist kind of do as well to point since they all are arcane casters. It would make much sense to have another class like that.
Now a arcane spell caster with spells up to 4th, D10 hit dice and full BAB sounds more like what it should be as there isn't a class like that yet.
I believe James Jacobs stated their intention is to make it the d8 progression.
I think that means we'll see the magus modeled after psychic warrior and arcane duelist bard.
Has there been any official information on what the Magus class will be? I'd hope it won't be 3/4 BAB class with 6 levels of spells. The Arcane Duelist fills that position at the moment and the Summoner or Alchemist kind of do as well to point since they all are arcane casters. It would make much sense to have another class like that.
Now a arcane spell caster with spells up to 4th, D10 hit dice and full BAB sounds more like what it should be as there isn't a class like that yet.
I believe James Jacobs stated their intention is to make it the d8 progression.
I think that means we'll see the magus modeled after psychic warrior and arcane duelist bard.
That just seems kind of redundant to me. I think the Arcane Duelist is perfect for that position. I know it's exactly what I was looking for.
The point of this post was to show that a 3/4 BAB, d8 HD class with Sorcerer spell progression nearly already exists.
A 3/4 BAB, d8 HD class w/o nearly full sor/wiz spell casting will ultimately always be weaker than an EK build.*
The Arcane Duelist is fine if you want the limited Bard spell set. But what if you want to cast something as simple as Shield, True Strike, or Enlarge Person, let alone the better Fighter-Mage spells like Stoneskin or Fire Shield?
*Unless there are some amazing class features.
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Wow, leave it up to skeptics to discredit a class before we even have any information on it. Congrats you guys.
Though to address the Arcane Duelist concerns, you are off by a mile. The Magus will be marked as a primarily offensive class not a support caster or healer. Think damage.
That being said, why don't we get some productive speculation going as to what race/gender/personalty this particular Iconic will have, since we already have our half-elf/EK.
Wow, leave it up to skeptics to discredit a class before we even have any information on it. Congrats you guys.
Though to address the Arcane Duelist concerns, you are off by a mile. The Magus will be marked as a primarily offensive class not a support caster or healer. Think damage.
That being said, why don't we get some productive speculation going as to what race/gender/personalty this particular Iconic will have, since we already have our half-elf/EK.
This. By a mile.
I´d include interesting `status effects` or lingering spell effects, i.e. offensive in general not just pure damage.I think Fighters and Barbarians should probably out-damage the Magus in general cases,
but the Magus could have more interesting magical-physical attacks, say like Lightning Bolts hitting everybody in a line, or Cloud Effects which surround them and effect surrounding foes, along with `Personal Utility` effects - Freedom of Movement, say. Ideally, they should function solo like a Fighter with Caster Support, with the ability to take on challenges mundane combatants have troubles dealing with - Swarms for one.
And given Eldritch Knight does already exists to roughly fill this niche, awesome class abilities is pretty much exactly what I expect from this class. Generic BAB and caster progression? I could care less.
(I personally hope to see a spell list not identical with Wiz/Sorc, but more tailored to the specific role, like the Inquisitors... Though in practice it would have many of the Arcane spells that Bards miss out on, for example, I could see leaving out many `group buff` spells, or a special rule that such spells only target the Magus themself, and/or their Familiar, though that would certainly mean a Spell Level / Class Level Gained At change)
Iconic identity? Hmm... No Mwangi iconics yet, right?
Why not a a magical ´gunslinger´ from the magic-infested hinterlands stretching South and West from Nex proper into the Mwangi Expanse and beyond? The Arcanist Guilds of Nex`s insatiable demand for rare reagents, from sources natural and unnatural, feed a cottage industry of those souls reckless enough to brave the hazards (natural and man-made, especially their colleagues vying for the rarest reagents), who must have a knowledge of the workings of magic but who also can`t be bothered by the strict rules that ¨true¨ wizards submit to in order to gain their ¨ultimate¨ control over the mystic strands of the universe.
...Work in progress, but I could see something like that. Play up the familiarity with the para-Egyptian trappings of Nex. Possibly even bring in a Pistol from Alkenstar?
Nobody has yet to produce a fighter/mage type class the equal of the 3.5 Duskblade yet. Hopefully the Magus can do that, since nothing else I have seen yet does.
Well, the point is to make something that -isn't - overpowered. The Duskblade was an example of a class with absolutely no drawbacks that I could find. Why play a Fighter when you could play a Duskblade? With the right magic items they were (in my own experience) essentially the kings of DPR (as loathe as I am to even use the term "DPR"). Wasn't the Duskblade even a D10 HD?
Most of the arguments I've seen about folks wanting a fighter/mage kind of class revolves around wanting the best of both worlds with no penalty on either. Yikes, I've even seen folks who honestly don't see the issue with having what essentially equates to a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt class with spells all the way up to 9th.
Nobody has yet to produce a fighter/mage type class the equal of the 3.5 Duskblade yet. Hopefully the Magus can do that, since nothing else I have seen yet does.Well, the point is to make something that -isn't - overpowered. The Duskblade was an example of a class with absolutely no drawbacks that I could find. Why play a Fighter when you could play a Duskblade? With the right magic items they were (in my own experience) essentially the kings of DPR (as loathe as I am to even use the term "DPR"). Wasn't the Duskblade even a D10 HD?
Most of the arguments I've seen about folks wanting a fighter/mage kind of class revolves around wanting the best of both worlds with no penalty on either. Yikes, I've even seen folks who honestly don't see the issue with having what essentially equates to a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt class with spells all the way up to 9th.
I think the present issue that people have with the present system of warrior-mages is that there are few meaningful ways to blend magic and melee. For instance, the old arcane strike. Or that spell in dragon magic that increased your hit-damage based on your caster level. Or thunderlance, in which you smacked the enemy by using your magic as a literal cudgel.
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I think the present issue that people have with the present system of warrior-mages is that there are few meaningful ways to blend magic and melee. For instance, the old arcane strike. Or that spell in dragon magic that increased your hit-damage based on your caster level. Or thunderlance, in which you smacked the enemy by using your magic as a literal cudgel.Nobody has yet to produce a fighter/mage type class the equal of the 3.5 Duskblade yet. Hopefully the Magus can do that, since nothing else I have seen yet does.Well, the point is to make something that -isn't - overpowered. The Duskblade was an example of a class with absolutely no drawbacks that I could find. Why play a Fighter when you could play a Duskblade? With the right magic items they were (in my own experience) essentially the kings of DPR (as loathe as I am to even use the term "DPR"). Wasn't the Duskblade even a D10 HD?
Most of the arguments I've seen about folks wanting a fighter/mage kind of class revolves around wanting the best of both worlds with no penalty on either. Yikes, I've even seen folks who honestly don't see the issue with having what essentially equates to a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt class with spells all the way up to 9th.
If you were at all a fan of that class, I would very seriously ask that you please give the Vanguard that just came out from Super Genius Games a look then. While the Vanguard is NOT the Duskblade, it certainly has a strong bit of its flavor - but it is balanced and not at all over (or under) powered.
Please check out the link if you are interested - there are already a number of favorable comments on the class. :)