(Sorry, I don´t know what went wrong with the first thread)
I´ve been unable to run ANY AP for many reasons, be it that the rules require to much commitment from my players (KM) or the story is not appealing to us (SD, LoF).
WE REALLY WANT TO PLAY CARRION CROWN!!!
Problem is that I have zero experience running horror themed adventures and I don´t want such a nice AP to end in a "Hack and Slash" game.
I´m looking for something more vivid than a book like Heroes of Horror. I´m listening to the stories in the Pseudopod website and they are great but I don´t know how to transmit that kind of feeling in a Pathfinder game.
Do you have any suggestions?
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Horror is always easier to portray through writing or film than it is through the spoken word, particularly in a roleplay game where others are talking around the table as often as listening.
True horror is really going to be the domain of mature gamers, and I think you have to be very careful not to turn people off by going over board. My friends and I fall into the category of mature gamers, but we still have taboos on what we'll run in a game. We've all cut close to the mark at times and had to pull the reigns in a little. However, some of those games are still the most memorable.
Things I have tried that seem to have worked in the past are:
(WARNING: Some of this might be considered mature content)
- Appeal the the players sense of unease. Make them roll perception checks and have them notice things like noises, or moving shadows, but don't reveal anything for a while.
- Use objects that are usually associted with nice and make them nasty. Childrens toys such as dolls, swing sets or trikes. Something as simple as describing to the players that "You were sure the doll was looking at the window when you first came in the room, now it seems to be facing the door" can be quite off putting. I once had a childs companion doll attacking and killing people in the hospital where the boy ws held. It was an animatedtoy built to keep the boy company becasue his parents travelled alot and he was left at home with the hired help. Unfortunately it broke and began to think of everyone as a threat to the child, and started going on night time forays to kill people in their sleep. Took my players a long time to work out what was going on, and when they finally had to fight the thing, the boy in question was standing in front of it begging them not to kill it.
- Have essential items become "tainted" or dangerous to use from a narrative perspective rather than a mechanical one. In this way, the players start having to make tough choices about what to do not based on mechanics, but on the game world itself. For example, I once ran a healer in a town who created magic wands for teh group. They used them like candy bars but realised the number of deaths of the elderly in town was going up. When they investigated, it turns out that the wands were made using the patients of the priest as their focus, and every time the characters used them, it drained a little of the life of the person who it was created from. I used that to spark another adventure of course, but you can do something similar and make t tough for the players to decide what to do.
Another of utilising this technique s everytimethe players use an item that is very beneficial, they hear a human scream, or whispered voices, or get a vision of something disturbing. Each time this becomes more intense or a little more purturbing.
- Lastly, have everyday people do things that are completely odd, but they seem them as completely normal. Stephen King uses this quite a bit in his stories and the first time you read about the neighbour eating the rat they just caught in their mouse trap, it makes your hair stand up, particularly if said individual catches you watching and smiles at you with bits of rat in their teeth.
Hope that was helpful
Cheers
Edit - Just remembered another one I used in a PbP I ran on these boards a while back. Sometimes its useful to have the players unsure if they should be attacking the baddy. I spent some time setting up a situation where a farely aggressive NPC had a fight with a Shifter PC. (It was homebrew but the shifter race was in use). A few days later a girl was found brutally murdered and all torn up. All clues pointed to the NPC and when they found him he had just woken up from a drunken stupor. He started frothing at the mouth and parts of his body were growing disproportinately but the whole time he was begging them for help and calling "It hurts soooo much". In the end it turned out he had been drugged and a mixture of rage potion and enlarge person potion had been poured into him to make it look like he had been affliceted with Lycanthropy. It worked really well, but this was in PbP and the written word conveyed the essence of the scene far better than a live game would have.
I'd start with seconding most of what Wrath said. He had some really great advice. I particularly liked the bit about the wands of healing draining the life from the elderly in town. I'm going to have to use that one myself!
I've been running Call of Cthulhu off and on for the last couple of years and I've found that atmosphere is very important. There's only so much you can do with that in play but as Wrath suggests hints and suggestions are very effective. Perception rolls in particular that are really ambiguous and suggestive can be remarkably effective in the right setting. If you suggest something bad is going on without actually revealing what it is, the longer you draw it out the more creepy it can get.
It is a balancing act, however, in that if you take it too far the whole thing falls apart.
I do a lot of write-ups for my PCs since it's easier to evoke horror that way. Between sessions I tend to allow some time to pass and sum it up in a fairly detailed summary of what's happened in the downtime. That allows me to take advantage of the written word as well as give the players extra roleplaying potential during the game.
The other thing that tends to work pretty well is to give the players the semblance of the rules being broken. It's really a matter of subterfuge more than rule breaking, but I try to make it seem as though NPCs are doing things that shouldn't be possible. If the players start to doubt that certain things can be relied on (like Werecreatures being affected by silver) then it increases their perception of the danger. If silver doesn't kill a werewolf, what does? They've had a little bit of the foundation of their worldview shaken on them and that puts them in an uncertain position when it was really just a matter of their silver implements not being the correct kind of silver or containing the right amount, or maybe that beast isn't actually a werecreature at all.
I hope that helps a little bit, for all that it's kind of vague. I'm really looking forward to Carrion Crown myself.
One of the classic elements to horror films that I've used to good effect is to hold of the appearance of "the big scary thing" as long as possible. In a sci-fi game I ran a whle back, the characters were infiltrating a secret military base. When they arrived, it was blatantly obvious that something very bad had happened; lots of spent shell casing scattered about, bloodstains on the floors and walls, furnishings trashed, and so forth.
As the party progressed further into the installation, I would occasionally throw in things like gunfire heard in the distance followed by a horrific scream or a shadowy figure barely seen slipping out of a room just as they entered.
Much like Wander Weir, I would also routinely have the player's roll Listen or Spot checks (we were playing with the d20 Modern ruleset so Perception checks would replace those.) As the DM, I knew that there was nothing to perceive in that room, but having the players roll and then detect nothing really amped up their anxiety level, particularly when they were rolling very high on the checks, but still could not see or hear anything.
It also helped that the military installation they were exploring had a reputation for being staffed with elite soldiers. There was a lot of discussion among the players that if these guys were so obviously slaughtered, whatever did it was very nasty indeed.
By the time the party reached the end of the "dungeon" and finally encountered the creature, they were pretty amped up and wondering what they had gotten themselves into. It turned a relatively ordinary bad guy into a source of fear, but slowly ramping up their expectations of it and what it had done.
-Brooks
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I once did a Call of Cthulhu campaign that started out using the pre-made scenarios but then built further outwards. Things I remember working:
Betrayals and reversals - So my players had confiscated a trumpet that could raise the dead from a trumpet player of reasonable sanity. The trumpet player was wanted by the mob, so they took him in, but then promptly forgot about him and his trumpet. I was also building up towards a larger story-arc with a cult centered around a skin-wearing creature. I had the creature kill and replace the trusty butler, and then kill the trumpet player, take the trumpet, and leave the butler's skin hanging off of the chandelier. I don't think they ever found the body of the trumpet player - so to them, the man they had helped and sheltered had just brutally murdered their butler, and stolen the dangerous artifact. Quite the slap on the wrist for their carelessness.
Isolation - My party split up to deal with a series of attacks on their house - a few went in one door, and one person went in the other. I made each group leave the room while the other group made a few moves, then had them switch - only bringing them together when they both collided in front of the door where I was about to have them fight a byakhee. Did this really do anything mechanically? No - they literally just took two separate paths through the otherwise empty house. Atmospherically, though, both groups were in a near-panic by the time I finally let them fight. The choppy nature of the narrative, the time to stew in suspense while the other group was going - all worked to make them completely terrifed about what was behind the door.
Just my two cents!
Betrayals and reversals - So my players had confiscated a trumpet that could raise the dead from a trumpet player of reasonable sanity. The trumpet player was wanted by the mob, so they took him in, but then promptly forgot about him and his trumpet. I was also building up towards a larger story-arc with a cult centered around a skin-wearing creature. I had the creature kill and replace the trusty butler, and then kill the trumpet player, take the trumpet, and leave the butler's skin hanging off of the chandelier. I don't think they ever found the body of the trumpet player - so to them, the man they had helped and sheltered had just brutally murdered their butler, and stolen the dangerous artifact. Quite the slap on the wrist for their carelessness.
Another great way to emphasize reversals to give the party a secure base that they feel safe and comfortable in. Leave them completely alone from monsters, bad guys, severe weather, or harsh language while they are at home and continue on like this for several sessions. Let them "pimp out" the place however they would like to, adding their personal touches, and continuing to emphasize how warm and cozy it is.
Then have them return from an adventure or mission or whatever to find the place completely trashed. It shouldn't particularly matter if anything is stolen or destroyed; the simple fact that their personal space was violated should be enough to unhinge them, just a bit.
I would be careful with both this and betrayals, using them sparingly and judiciously, as I've had parties that have become so paranoid that it actually takes away the fun of the game and makes it increasingly difficult to run as a DM.
-Brooks
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Turn every light off in the house and leave the entrance to the room wide open. The players should sit facing away from it. There's nothing like a yawning chasm into darkness to creep people out.
I once made a giant spider TERRIFYING to a bunch of 1st level PCs. The trick was to kill some bandits that happened to be in the dungeon they were exploring. When the PCs got the advantage in the fight the bandit fled deeper into the complex. While they searched the room for treasure before pressing forward. I SCREEEEAMED it echoed throughout the entire house. The players looked at each other and simultaneously exclaimed: "You go first."
I described the feeling of walking through the sticky webbing in detail (paying particular attention to the way the strands would stick to the player's hair).
Darkness should be oppressive. Darkvision only reaches 60 ft. A player with a light source can be seen substantially further. Have things move at the edge of the player's vision. Short glimpses of hairless cannibalistic morlocks, followed by a half-eaten carcass when they reach the area where they saw the movement >Scary THAN morlocks with maces charging yet another 10 ft. wide corridor.
Monsters should come from unexpected angles. Ceilings. Under the floors. Secret doors. A choker that pulls a character through a secret door in the ceiling is terrifying. Just pass a note to the player reading: "You have been pulled up into a crawlspace in the ceiling. Thick fibrous tentacles wrap around your neck, and you can not scream."
The rest of the players should notice the missing one when they try to open the door to the next room and you ask for a marching order. My GM did this the other night and it worked great.
I was just thinking about another effective horror trick:
Make good use of your NPCs. Let your PCs get to know the others in the situation around them, allow those NPCs to impress them, maybe even allow the PCs to lean on them a little. And then have the NPC either disappear under horrific circumstances (bloody trail, trashed room, whatever) or suddenly and seemingly effortlessly killed.
If the NPC(s) is real enough and liked well enough, said NPC(s) death or disappearance can have a tremendous impact on the PCs emotions. This is especially so if the NPC seemed quite capable of taking care of himself. Then they're dealing with both grief and fear; if Roland could be taken out so easily by something you didn't even have the chance to see, what would it do to you?
Haunts. I have never seen my party more terrified then when they first ran into haunts. Especially if you set it up so that certain rooms only effect certain characters.
Thank you for the great examples of your games!!
Really loved the wands and the choker trick :D
One question: how do you restrict the number of perception checks so that it is effective and doesn't end in every PC making perception checks?
Also I have a very big question because I have never done this before:
How do you resolve combats without minis?
This is important because I believe that the use of minis in this AP would impede the suspension of reality needed for a horror game (do you agree?).
I think that melee combat is easy, but what happens with ranged combat or spells?
Melee: "There are two werewolves attacking you, one misses and the other bites you." :D
Ranged: "I throw my alchemist bomb so that the splash hits both skeletons but not the cleric and the paladin." O_o
Spells: "The lich casts Prismatic Spray and all of you are close enough to get hit." O_o
What am I missing?
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In general my players ask for perception checks, I don't call for them. Otherwise I just assume they are taking 10 and see anything that doesn't roll high enough stealth to beat that.
Running a combat without minis isn't so difficult. All you really need is a rough sketch of the map, and initials for your characters and Xs for the monsters so relative position is easy to see. The players don't see this, you do so you can tell a player:
"If you're going to throw that fireball you're likely to hit your companions as well as the monsters"
Otherwise just keep ranges to melee, reach and medium and long range.
A rogue with a sword fighting a goblin is in melee range and could thus be affected by any area effects that hit the goblin.
A fighter with a halberd or whip fighting that goblin would be in reach range (ignores things like alchemist fire but might still get whomped with a fireball)
and the wizard with the crossbow is at medium range, and it takes at least a move action to reach him
finally the cleric of Erastil with the longbow is at Long Range, it definitely takes a full-round action or more to reach him.
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Thank you for the great examples of your games!!
Really loved the wands and the choker trick :D
One question: how do you restrict the number of perception checks so that it is effective and doesn't end in every PC making perception checks?
Just choose players at random to make them. Don't ask the others to do so. Let them roll and if they roll high, make a suitable scary description of a fleeting image or perhaps a noise they've heard. It doesn't need to be useful to the plot, just something a little menacing. Sometimes its great to have plyers hear something in teh room or hallway ahead of them, but when they get there the room is empty and the door is left ajar or only just closing.
If they roll low, make a suitably evil face instead. I find raising an eybrow while looking down at my notes and jotting something on paper is usually enough to put a player on edge when they roll poorly on a perception test.
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Also I have a very big question because I have never done this before:
How do you resolve combats without minis?
This is important because I believe that the use of minis in this AP would impede the suspension of reality needed for a horror game (do you agree?).
I think that melee combat is easy, but what happens with ranged combat or spells?
Melee: "There are two werewolves attacking you, one misses and the other bites you." :D
Ranged: "I throw my alchemist bomb so that the splash hits both skeletons but not the cleric and the paladin." O_o
Spells: "The lich casts Prismatic Spray and all of you are close enough to get hit." O_o
What am I missing?
As Dudemeister stated above, just keep it to general descriptions and provide players with rough ideas of distance.
If they want to do things like wove into flanking without provoking AoO then have them roll athletics checks or simpley allow them if you think there is enough room.
Same for targeting area of effect spells. My players are always trying to place the blast template so it hits something in combat without hitting the PC as well. Without minis and mal this comes down to makeing a spellcraft check to get it right or risk hitting the PC as well.
My group sed o roleplay this way (Pre DnD) but we love the minis too much nowadays.
Cheers
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I haven't read all of the above, so excuse me if this has already been said by someone else...
I had great experiences with horror-themed adventures, when I used "hidden hp"!
My players know their max hp, of course, but I don't tell them the amount of damage they take by a given attack. Instead I explained the kind of wound, and how hard they are hurt.
Not knowing your actual hp gives you a feel of threat, that comes close to what you want to achieve in a horror campaing. Granted, its only during combat, but it will get your players to let their pcs run away more often than you would think!
Especially while fighting undead:"His cold claw grabs at your heart, and you feel more than only the pain - a coldness takes hold in your body, which makes you feel sleepy and drained...you feel that the attack does more than normal damage!"
So my advice: Keep the hp secret, and only tell'em when they are full again. Its a bit more work, but its worth it!
One question: how do you restrict the number of perception checks so that it is effective and doesn't end in every PC making perception checks?
I call on one particular player for the perception checks, especially one who is approaching something like a door, or the end of a hallway, or a tree.
If there's a line of PCs, I usually have either the first or the last one in line do the Perception check. The last one in line is particularly effective.
How do you resolve combats without minis?
I actually prefer counters over minis and if I wanted to keep something non-specific on the map (because, for instance, a pic can't do it justice) I usually just cut out a dark or shadowy counter of the appropriate size. That way they can know where it is, approximately what size it is, but the description is wholly dependent on what I gave to them.
I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, but it works for me.
First off I call for Perception checks all of the time. which may or may not be anything that usually keeps them guessing. I have too many miniatures and terrain to not use figures so that question will have to go to others.
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I haven't read all of the above, so excuse me if this has already been said by someone else...
I had great experiences with horror-themed adventures, when I used "hidden hp"!
My players know their max hp, of course, but I don't tell them the amount of damage they take by a given attack. Instead I explained the kind of wound, and how hard they are hurt.
Not knowing your actual hp gives you a feel of threat, that comes close to what you want to achieve in a horror campaing. Granted, its only during combat, but it will get your players to let their pcs run away more often than you would think!Especially while fighting undead:"His cold claw grabs at your heart, and you feel more than only the pain - a coldness takes hold in your body, which makes you feel sleepy and drained...you feel that the attack does more than normal damage!"
So my advice: Keep the hp secret, and only tell'em when they are full again. Its a bit more work, but its worth it!
I had a GM who did that in a Ravenloft campaign. I remember a very tense duel with a swordsman which I barely survived. As I recall I staggered through the Inn door dripping with blood to see my startled companions faces.
I believe I said something along the lines of "you should see the other guy" and fell over.
Just to expand on what's already been said, isolation is a great tool, but it doesn't just have to be physical isolation. Social and psychological isolation is key too. A big use of this in the horror genre is that even when the PCs figure out that there is something horrible skulking around, nobody believes them. They can be in the biggest city in the game world, but if their claims that the local priest is actually a vampire get laughed away, they might as well be entirely alone.
As has also been mentioned above, information is the nemesis of horror. If I describe a monster as an oozing cloud of darkness in which a blur of tentacles and a single twitching eyeball can be briefly glimpsed, the players will naturally form a mental image that is hopefully going to be disconcerting to them, even though none of them will have formed the exact same image. If I say that the enemy is an octopus, everyone pictures an octopus, and the effect is lost. Try to let your players' minds run loose -- they'll come up with things that are far more terrifying to them on a personal level than you ever could.
Just to expand on what's already been said, isolation is a great tool, but it doesn't just have to be physical isolation. Social and psychological isolation is key too. A big use of this in the horror genre is that even when the PCs figure out that there is something horrible skulking around, nobody believes them. They can be in the biggest city in the game world, but if their claims that the local priest is actually a vampire get laughed away, they might as well be entirely alone.
As has also been mentioned above, information is the nemesis of horror. If I describe a monster as an oozing cloud of darkness in which a blur of tentacles and a single twitching eyeball can be briefly glimpsed, the players will naturally form a mental image that is hopefully going to be disconcerting to them, even though none of them will have formed the exact same image. If I say that the enemy is an octopus, everyone pictures an octopus, and the effect is lost. Try to let your players' minds run loose -- they'll come up with things that are far more terrifying to them on a personal level than you ever could.
Both these points were exactly what I was going to put forth so...+1 And also Corrosive Rabbit is a mind reading witch.
Along these lines of thinking you can take any creature in the Beastiary and break it down into it's constituent descriptive parts. I had a simple bug-bear stalk a low level group of PC's into a cave complex once and all anyone ever saw of him were two luminescent orbs the size of dinner plates that suddenly winked out. I then used the physical isolation mechanism and really put a whomping on a couple PC's.
I would also recommend watching the new Wolfman movie. It isn't super great but a few of the werewolf attack scenes are great because of the terrifying confusion a single monster can cause when set loose upon an unsuspecting group of people. If the players can see mass death and hysteria they will buy in a little more even if the challenge is well within their purvue.
In order to keep the horrifying descriptions from becoming mundane for your players make sure to break them up with ample usage of tame, honest, safe bits. Not every road needs to have a headless horseman running down it. Not every attic needs to have a bleeding corpse pile.
Sometimes you can generate a huge sense of unease in a mid to high level adventuring group by presenting a perfectly normal and sticky sweet event right in the middle of something truly horrifying. They will be constantly waiting for Freddie Krueger to jump out of the bathtub full of blood and instead they just have a happy go lucky town celebrating a harvest festival on the outskirts of a really spooky forest. Everything in a PC's mind is going to point towards "midnight werewolf attack" or "the town is full of evil cultists" but when the evening feast is served and everyone drinks and parties into the night and then morning comes...your players will be like "seriously man where are the f---ing monsters!?" Then they realize that the people are all wearing the same clothes as yesterday and setting up for the harvest festival tonight what fun!...enter the ground-hog day party mind f---
On the general topic, check out Rule of Fear. Not only will that have a ton of details that tie in closely to Carrion Crown, but it includes advice on running horror games.
Ultimately, though, finding out what works best for you and your players - whether gleaned from other players' suggestions or your own experience - proves most effective. If you're worried about heading into Carrion Crown and finding that the first adventure gets spoiled because your players aren't used to a new play style or because you encounter unexpected problems in running a more narrative game, I'd suggest running a one-shot before hand (Carrion Hill, for an appropriately thematic example, or a stripped down version of Skinsaw Murders).
Also I have a very big question because I have never done this before:
How do you resolve combats without minis?
What it comes down to is that the players have to trust the GM isn't trying to screw them and the GM can no longer rely on the rules to not make him the "bad guy". Rather, you can't rely on the grid to tell the players "No" anymore. If you've got a scene with the PCs and baddies in close combat and someone starts chucking fireballs, you've got to make the call on who potentially is affected and who isn't. Rarely do you have to make a ruling where a PC is unexpectedly or accidentally affected. Just as when you're using a battle mat the players know when their actions are going to affect their allies, you as the GM need to tell the players when they risk harming their allies. Typically, though - and just as in a game with a battle mat - you can explain that a spellcaster (or whatever) can move his spell effect to not harm an ally, but doing so probably affects fewer enemies. In such a case, you're not denying the PC the use of his ability or his chance to play, but giving him the same options he would be presented with on a battle mat in a more narrative fashion. This is your judgment in control in these situations, so you've got no grid or rulebook backing you up (but I'll get to that in a minute). Often this style of play actually means combat goes faster and ends up being more exciting, as you're not doing a ton of square counting.
What it does mean, though, is that you as the GM have to have a solid idea of everyone's positioning. For me has often meant having a piece of paper to draw out the layout and keep track of everything behind the screen, though typically only for more complicated encounters. I've also employed a dry erase board large enough for everyone to see in some games. This never seems to mess with the suspension of disbelief too much as it's off to the side and easily wiped clear, while still letting folks visualize their relation between things without the restrictions of a grid. (It's also handy for other little sketches and visual additions on the fly.)
The biggest thing about this entire style of play, though, is that the players have to trust you. As much of the combat is in your head in a game like this, the players have got to know that you're not going to screw them by always making their spells hit their allies or denying them opportunities to use abilities or feel like bad-asses. You've got to present them with options and alternatives, and learn to replace saying "You can't do that" with "Here's what you'd need to do to do that." And probably most importantly, if the choice comes down to screwing an NPC or a PC, nearly always lean in favor of the PCs (it is their story after all).
What you'll get out of this is, after a while, you're players will forget the restrictions of the grid and start attempting more heroic feats. Swinging an axe during a dive off a balcony, bringing down chandeliers, and tackling villains becomes a lot more common in a game where the rules are more transparent. At the same time, it'll be up to you to make reasonable, rule-based judgment calls or even on the fly decisions for how to handle actions not covered in the rules. But try to keep things fair and focus on the players having a good time and soon it'll be second nature.
Good luck!
What am I missing?
Don't be afraid.
These tips are all great, and the adventures should carry the theme well (with the exception of adventure#4). If your players want to play and you want to run it, you'll have a blast with the adventures in this AP.
Rich
I agree with Mr. Schneider. Try playing something similar to get the feel of it, before starting the AP.
I can also reccomend Carrion Hill, as it is probably one of the most momorable module I've GMed. My players will agree.
To some extent this is also true of PF#2 Skinsaw Murders, atleast the first part of it.
(I'd choose carrion hill though, what amazing fun that was! <3 )
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Here are a couple simple tips I always use when running horror.
1) Whisper, especially if the lights are off. I discovered this one night while running an adventure that took place in a lich's tomb, which the lich had escaped from (OK, so I was running my own version of Ustalav, and the lich was Tar-Baphon). One of my housemates had a test in the morning and went to bed, so I started whispering and scared one of my players more than I had expected. Maybe it's because I sound like a creepy little girl from the Shining when I whisper.
2) Don't let the players catch on too quickly. When the players know what they're about to fight, or feel secure that they're safe for the night, they aren't scared. You can have enemies attack out of the mist (especially in Ustalav), put them in tight corridors so they have to go single file and can't see around corners, or anything similar so they can't see things coming.
The scariest encounter I've ever run involved a dozen attic whisperers, a koblak(half-undead bugbear), and a series of haunts. The attic whisperers were not at all hostile unless attacked, and in general were just acting like children. However the players still had to beware of their touch, so the little girl who runs up wanting a hug and reassurance because shes getting picked on or the little boy who jumps into a players arms off the swing, while not hostile represents a threat. Everytime one of the players was contemplating hostile actions all the attic whisperers went quiet and just looked at them.
The koblak was the primary threat and the players never got a glimpse of it until the final fight, but he constantly made his presence known. Skulking about in shadows and throwing around his phantasmal killer, running through the walls and scraping his nails. Eventually my players ended up trapped in a room with attic whisperers playing double dutch as the koblak tried to make his way in, my players love to talk and joke around but that night they were dead quiet.
As for the haunts I used them to establish the back story of the koblak. That way the player's got a sense of who it was and why it did what it did. However it made his back story that much more powerful with haunts than it did with him monologuing or finding a journal.
Also I must say there is some really good advice here... I am not sure how well the Hidden HP rule would work with my players... but I am definitely going to give it a try when I run Carrion Hill
I cannot wait to play in this one.
Greg
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Several phenomenal suggestions so far, many of which will find a home in the Evernote notebook where I've begun compiling notes for my own CC Campaign, but I wanted to touch on something else for a minute: how to horrify game-players.
Game-players, often referred to with the derogatory "roll-player" are folks who are more interested in the "game" part of RPG than in the "role-playing". That is not to say that they never role-play, just that it's not their first thought. Such players can represent a challenge in horror games because they tend to be more tactically minded and less interested in gothic and mysterious atmosphere. Most of us have a game-player or two in our groups (I have two in mine) and there are ways to draw them into the game.
To throw a bone to WotC for a second, I recommend the horror and fascination rules from Heroes of Horror. Explaining those rules up front keeps everything on the up and up but also gives the game-player something for their tactical brain to chew on. It also makes seemingly mundane encounters more dangerous - a mechanic for paralyzing fear, more importantly paralyzing non-magical fear, adds a new dimension that takes the game-player out of their comfort zone without tying them to role-playing that they may not be interested in heavily investing in.
The other side of that is NPCs. Monsters, for most experienced players, are known quantities. Sure, you can change things up and give them the occasional hopeless challenge, but a lot of game-players will get frustrated with such things more than they will get into the story. NPCs represent unknowns. Especially within Pathfinder, no two folks with class levels will be the same: I mightily unsettled my party tonight when the Ogre Barbarian broke out the No Escape rage power: suddenly, retreat may not be a tactical option. Powers and feats that target common party tactics (Step Up, Lunge, even Combat Reflexes) make the game-player have to shift gears during fights and rethink their options.
Don't get me wrong: Ravenloft is one of my favorite settings in the world and I love horror gaming for the stories you can tell with it. Throwing your game-players the occasional wrinkle can help keep all your players invested in the campaign.
most of the above, plus some advice from years of interweaving Cthulhu and DnD :
Leave things uncertain, never name stuff exactly, never positively identify a monster. Describe the appearance,limited by lights and point of view, limited by characters prior experience. Rarely if ever identify stuff absolutely.
Be ambiguous about conditions.. something is not dead, it just looks dead... wanna check ? There is something humanoid in those shadows over there... a cultist ? A tailor's manikin ? Or another suspicious observer ? Just remember to play fair as the GM and not lie outright - unless illusions are specifically involved....
Limit perceptions, employing conditions where characters cannot rely on simple rolls to detect their foes.... fog and mists, murky light, drapes, undergrowth, drizzle or rain, even glaring light reflected of water or shiny surfaces, in combination with stark shadows..... creaking noises, constant rattles say from old waterwheels, broken doors, shutters or even circling birds may well drown out other noises the characters are probing for.... the shuffling steps, metal scraping free from scabbards, slithering tentacles.
Keep breaking patterns. If the group starts to maintain a certain drill, throw them into a situation where that drill will mean things go terribly wrong. Keep them on their toes, never let things become routine. Exception - do this on purpose to lure them in, then produce a horrific twist to the familiar situation (aka like the infamousdinner scene in Alien ).
Play up 'classic' fears, not frequently, but if you do, do so in force (!) ... swarms of insects crawling over a character... creeping into orifices, helplessly drowning, being buried alive, getting chewed on while still conscious, getting incubated with some vile parasitic offspring a la Alien. Worms Slime, acid, paralytic poisons.. the works.
If you know your players, you will have a good idea what makes each tick and shiver in particular - use it, if with a degree of respect to the player. As mentioned above, let player's imagination to the heavy lifting, stay away from "torture porn", which will almost certainly gross out someone at the table... Keep gore out of sight, just describe it through indirect means... like the "wet sound of someone's... intestines spilling on the floor ?"
Last but not least, check on the humour, severly so. Nothing takes the scare and fear away as fast as laughing uproariously about it. While black and bleak humour have their place in a darkish/horror setting, slapstick and simple "funny" stuff have not, unless one very specifically uses them to drive home a particularly horrific concept, like the proverbial "evil clown".
Hence, do not give the vampire an easily parodied accent, think long and hard about NPC and places names and how players may abuse them, and if they persist on a "stiff upper lip", drive home just how much it offsets the locals and their allies that the characters do not seem to take things seriously.
This does not mean that the player should not enjoy themselves - but playing horror-themed campaigns means keeping a certain set of mind even as a player. If someone can't or won't it may be the wrong type of campaign....
Playing environment : limit distractions, turn off any TV or non-game music/radio, , dim the lights, provide a "closed in" "cabin fever" ambience - this semi-isolation alone is usually enough to make players less certain and confident. If you feel nefarious, use a "normal" gaming soundtrack, mooded to "gothic horror"... and keep a secondary sound-system ready to set off horrific creeping etc noises at random points, half-heard and not quite drowned out by the ambient music.
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Turn every light off in the house and leave the entrance to the room wide open. The players should sit facing away from it. There's nothing like a yawning chasm into darkness to creep people out.
I once made a giant spider TERRIFYING to a bunch of 1st level PCs. The trick was to kill some bandits that happened to be in the dungeon they were exploring. When the PCs got the advantage in the fight the bandit fled deeper into the complex. While they searched the room for treasure before pressing forward. I SCREEEEAMED it echoed throughout the entire house. The players looked at each other and simultaneously exclaimed: "You go first."
I described the feeling of walking through the sticky webbing in detail (paying particular attention to the way the strands would stick to the player's hair).Darkness should be oppressive. Darkvision only reaches 60 ft. A player with a light source can be seen substantially further. Have things move at the edge of the player's vision. Short glimpses of hairless cannibalistic morlocks, followed by a half-eaten carcass when they reach the area where they saw the movement >Scary THAN morlocks with maces charging yet another 10 ft. wide corridor.
Monsters should come from unexpected angles. Ceilings. Under the floors. Secret doors. A choker that pulls a character through a secret door in the ceiling is terrifying. Just pass a note to the player reading: "You have been pulled up into a crawlspace in the ceiling. Thick fibrous tentacles wrap around your neck, and you can not scream."
The rest of the players should notice the missing one when they try to open the door to the next room and you ask for a marching order. My GM did this the other night and it worked great.
i like you.
my players, not so much.
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(Sorry, I don´t know what went wrong with the first thread)
I´ve been unable to run ANY AP for many reasons, be it that the rules require to much commitment from my players (KM) or the story is not appealing to us (SD, LoF).
WE REALLY WANT TO PLAY CARRION CROWN!!!
Problem is that I have zero experience running horror themed adventures and I don´t want such a nice AP to end in a "Hack and Slash" game.
I´m looking for something more vivid than a book like Heroes of Horror. I´m listening to the stories in the Pseudopod website and they are great but I don´t know how to transmit that kind of feeling in a Pathfinder game.
Do you have any suggestions?
the thing with D&D is, that battles are short, brutal, deadly and COMMON. players expect to have a good fight or two a session, and that's when you are not dungeon crawling. Each of your players (whom I assume are experienced in the game) has already defeated many terrifying beasts in previous adventures. Even pulling a way-out-of-scale monster with a CR much larger than what the party can handle won't intimidate players, mainly surprise them slightly.
I believe that if you play the suspension card - that is, drawing out an encounter with a monster by having it stalk the PCs in some dark corridor while the come across more and more evidence of it's brutality - won't work.
So, while D&D (and PFRPG too, of course) aren't that great for running roleplaying horror, you can still make it work. I think the key here lies in perhaps running a lower power level campaign, having frequent occasions when the PCs LOOSE A FIGHT (radical, isn't it?), describe in gory details the end of slain PCs and NPCS, and so forth. you must be careful not to heart the tempo of the game though, so have things happen fast, just not nessicrily fights.
all of these advice are just thin air, though. they have more to do with structuring the adventure than with running it. we'll have to see which particular kind of awesome Paizo delivers this time before serious thought could be focused on the subject.
Couple of cheap techniques to set players off. They involve being able to control the gaming space, though, so you might not be able to pull all of these off but...:
1) Keep looking past the players: Sit yourself with your back to a wall, but so that the players have to sit with their backs to an open space. Preferably a long space, or perhaps with a window some ways behind the players. Then just keep having your eyes wander, every once in a while, over the player's shoulders/heads. Don't call attention to the fact that you're doing this - just do it, hold your gaze for a second or two, and then continue on as if normal. If the players ask just answer it's nothing. That'll start to get them looking over their shoulders, literally, and really add to the sense of dread.
2) Unexpected Special Effects: Hide a book or a bag full of metal sundries (spoons are good for this) under a desk or near at hand. Then when something thumps to the floor, drop the book. Or if a window smashes open, drop the bag.
If your PCs are going to meet an undead NPC - say they're introduced to a vampire count or something - put an ice block in your hand. Then, when the introductions are made, wipe your hand to get rid of the moisture and extends your cold, near-frozen hand to the player to shake.
3) Controlled Lighting: If you can control what areas of the room the players can actually see, you control their full attention. Candles are good for this, but not necessarily the only way.
If I can think of more I'll throw them up here. Apologies if someone had mentioned these before, too.
Horror is hard. A key part is remembering that in a horror game, you're trying to scare the player moreso than the character. Don't get angry if the barbarian PC charges into a room raging when you feel he should be quivering with fear. He's a PC - go with it. Plus, paladins are kinda immune to the whole fear thing.
So don't try to scare the character. The players at your table are your goal. So focus all of your mental energies at what freaks them out.
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Contributor
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Horror is hard. A key part is remembering that in a horror game, you're trying to scare the player moreso than the character. Don't get angry if the barbarian PC charges into a room raging when you feel he should be quivering with fear. He's a PC - go with it. Plus, paladins are kinda immune to the whole fear thing.
So don't try to scare the character. The...
Definitely target the psyche of the player and not his/her character.
I once ran a game where I insisted the players were blindfolds. After about a half an hour- people freaked out. Badly. I should add that I lived in a creepy mansion at the time, which also helped.Everyone's listed a lot of the really good techniques... like dim lighting, open doors...
Scent is also a powerful, powerful memory trigger, and really subtle. Most people don't even notice its affect, but it works. "Wet dog" is particularly unsettling, or even something more subtle like "rotten wood".
I've also chosen creepy locations to play without letting my players know they were going to be creepy. Its fun to play on a camping trip, but keep the action going straight into night. Just having the sun set on people in the woods messes them up.
I ran a contemporary horror game on the roof of an abandoned gypsum factory. as it turned out, the location proved too much of a distraction (scarier than the game). After that, I decided against running my next game in the remains of what used to be a TB hospital. There are lots of creepy old buildings where I live.
Lastly, I suggest props. Not to be used in game, but to create mood where you game. Leave one or two disturbing things around the house or apartment. Like a ratty old baby doll in the corner of bathtub, or a couple of bloodstained chicken feathers behind the toilet. It'll bother at least one player making a trip to the John.. alone.
Oh.. I almost forgot. Smile a lot, for no apparent reason and if anyone ask you about "that look" just dismiss it as nothing. I don't know if that trick works everywhere in the country, but here in New York, its usually a perceived as a pretty bad omen.
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There are some really good tips here. One I really want to emphasize is:
Pass notes. When you do, make it short and sweet and give them 5 seconds to read it. I've heard a player describe the same scene but in a completely different way. And when the group went in, NO ONE agreed on how it was described. And with the player running on just his memory...
Many years ago, I played a Ravenloft game with an exceptionally large group. I hadn't played with most of the players, so I wasn't sure what to expect. It didn't take long to notice that there was a lot of note passing going on. And I mean a LOT. Not just from the DM to the players, but players to the DM and even player to player. Really added a sense of paranoia, because there was a distinct feeling of secret agendas and/or concealed information.
Of course, then I started getting notes from the DM myself. Some of them were the usual kind of notes you would expect, but a lot of them were smokescreens. He'd send notes like "Read this note. Visibly think about it for a few moments, write a response and get it back to me." or "Read this note and react surprised. Roll a D20 and tell me the number." So now you didn't know which were "real" notes and which were "fake".
Surprisingly, the feeling of paranoia got worse knowing that many (or maybe even most) of the notes were meaningless. After all, did the fact that the rogue just got a note and didn't pass anything on to the group mean he's holding out? Or was the note bogus? And paranoia at a gaming table is a remarkably good gateway to horror. It's not actually horror itself, but it definitely puts players in a state to be more receptive to some of the other tricks in the thread.
I'm hoping when I run this AP, some of these tips will help offset I won't have any control over (we play at a FLGS, so lighting and distractions are things I can't do anything about).
I found these great articles about horror roleplaying while surfing the inter-webs:
I was planning on writing up some short stories of legends and such and have my players roll knowledge checks (mostly local and history) at certain points to remember such tales. I would then allow the player to retell the stories in her own words to the other players. I would have these stories tie into the current location of the players and include some horrible terrors and threats that lurk in that area to build tension.
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I was planning on writing up some short stories of legends and such...
Post them when you get around to writing them! I've been trying to come up with something similar.
Short ghost stories would work to spook the characters a little (perhaps role played as nightmares - without the fatigue effects) - but they wouldn't be customized to the campaign.