Another troublesome rule question brought up by my sometimes DM, sometimes player friend...
While I am pretty damn sure that you cannot take "Improved Natural Attack" multiple times on the same natural attack, he keeps insisting that there is nowhere that says he can't. He is trying to get a natural weapon Ranger to have 2d6 claws in his attempt to maximize damage output. I read through the Feats section of the core book and nowhere does it say that Feats can only be taken once, so I can see where he might think he can get away with that, but I believe there has to be a reason somewhere that a player cannot do this because otherwise things can get ridiculously broken.
Can anyone help clarify this for me (us)?
Technically he can take it over and over again for the same attack but he wouldn't gain any additional benefit:
Core Rulebook page 113
Feat Descriptions
Feats are summarized on Table: Feats below. Note that the prerequisites and benefits of the feats on this table are abbreviated for ease of reference. See the feats description for full details.The following format is used for all feat descriptions.
Feat Name: The feat's name also indicates what subcategory, if any, the feat belongs to, and is followed by a basic description of what the feat does.
Prerequisite: A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack bonus, a minimum number of ranks in one or more skills, or anything else required in order to take the feat. This entry is absent if a feat has no prerequisite. A feat may have more than one prerequisite.
Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.
Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no particular drawback, this entry is absent.
Special: Additional unusual facts about the feat.
Improved Natural Attack does not say otherwise so he can only benefit from the feat once per natural attack.
Yeah it's pretty cut and dry. That being said, the spell Strong Jaw in the APG (3rd level ranger spell) lets you treat your nat. weapons as if you were two sizes larger.
But as far as the feat goes, it's just once per natural weapon (claw, bite, etc.)
"This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time it applies to a different natural attack."
Actually, that's the 3.5 wording, not PFRPG wording. Under PF, it is more restrictive. Generally, if a feat can be taken more than once, it says so in the "special" section. There is a lot of speculation that this was mistakenly omitted, but as RAW, you can take it once, and it applies to one type of attack only.
"This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time it applies to a different natural attack."Actually, that's the 3.5 wording, not PFRPG wording. Under PF, it is more restrictive. Generally, if a feat can be taken more than once, it says so in the "special" section. There is a lot of speculation that this was mistakenly omitted, but as RAW, you can take it once, and it applies to one type of attack only.
Exactly, in 3.5 it was specific, but the change in wording in the Bestiary is what my friend was trying to exploit. I know this seemed like an amateurish question, but when I checked the core books I couldn't find anything to back up what I "knew" from experience.
Thanks for the responses!
You know I was thinking about the whole thing about stacking, but not when it comes to improved natural attack. That feat can only be taken once.
Now the core rule books does say that the feats unless otherwise mention do not stack. However, this does not exclude overlapping. This is basically what is happening with improved natural attack. The effects do not stack but they can be applied to different natural attacks.
Now what I am wondering has to deal with the new APG feat Heritage which states that you have trace amounts of another race in your blood and thus it allows you to qualify you for feats, magic item and etc. . . normally used only by that race.
Now it is conceivable that you have a very complicated family tree so technically a human can select this feat more than once but only apply it to a different blood line each time.
link to voice of authority link
Ask James Jacobs your questions! :-P
Edit: just noticed the last post was a month ago... guess I'm late to the party :-P at least I got to practice my search fu!