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I have a fighter with combat reflexes. I ready an action for the first creature to come within my reach using the brace option of the weapon. If this creature charges, I'm thinking I get two attacks. One for the brace that is a readied action and one for an opportunity attack for going through my reach. Is this how it works, or does it work differently?
As for the rest of the creatures, I get an attack of opportunity foe each point of dex I have for each creature that comes across my threatened reach. Is this correct?
I have a fighter with combat reflexes. I ready an action for the first creature to come within my reach using the brace option of the weapon. If this creature charges, I'm thinking I get two attacks. One for the brace that is a readied action and one for an opportunity attack for going through my reach. Is this how it works, or does it work differently?
As for the rest of the creatures, I get an attack of opportunity foe each point of dex I have for each creature that comes across my threatened reach. Is this correct?
Looks that way, one attack for the readied action, and a second for it provoking an attack of opportunity for passing through your threatened area.
Come to think of it, do I get brace for all those attacks?
No, just the braced readied action. The more important question would be what would happen if you where braced and someone not charging wandered passed you, then another person charged you.
Charging does not provoke an AoO from the target of the charge. This was tragically omitted from the text on charge but if you look at the big chart of actions in the Combat section, you'll see that the Charge action lists "No" under the AoO column.
So if the guy you braced against is charging you, you do not get an AoO against him.
You still get your readied standard attack because you readied your "brace" weapon against that charge. After your one attack, if the charging enemy is still alive, he completes his charge and attacks you. Your initiative is moved to the same score as the charging enemy (because readying an action changes your initiative) but the tie-breaker goes to you so you'll act first on that number each round thereafter.
As for the rest of the creatures, I get an attack of opportunity foe each point of dex I have for each creature that comes across my threatened reach. Is this correct?
Yes, this is correct.
That includes enemies who charge any of your allies (just not you), assuming they move within your threatened reach during their charge. This is because the charge action doesn't provoke an AoO, but moving does, so as they move out of a square you thraten, you can take your AoO.
And since taking an AoO never screws up your main actions, you can even take AoOs when you're braced for a charge without having to "unbrace". Or more accurately, you "unbrace", whack the guy, and "re-brace" so fast that you remain braced for the charge.
Just don't ask me what happens when your enemy readies his own action to charge you at the instant you make your AoO (while you are "unbraced").
OK, OK, since you asked, I would allow it (call it me ruling in favor of the clever tactics and teamwork required to have one guy run in and distract you by provoking an AoO while the other guy times his charge to take advantage of it). Besides, since the Charge action is a full-round action (except during the surprise round), and since you cannot ready a full-round action, this little trick can (normally) only be performed during a surprise round anyway.
Charging does not provoke an AoO from the target of the charge. This was tragically omitted from the text on charge but if you look at the big chart of actions in the Combat section, you'll see that the Charge action lists "No" under the AoO column.
So if the guy you braced against is charging you, you do not get an AoO against him.
You still get your readied standard attack because you readied your "brace" weapon against that charge. After your one attack, if the charging enemy is still alive, he completes his charge and attacks you. Your initiative is moved to the same score as the charging enemy (because readying an action changes your initiative) but the tie-breaker goes to you so you'll act first on that number each round thereafter.
Please refer to your chart again, there is a 1 next to the Attacks of Opportunity pane. Drifting to the right you will see:
1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened
square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This
column indicates whether the action itself, not moving,
provokes an attack of opportunity.
The attacks of opportunity : No part just indicates that there is no special attack of opportunity derived from attacking this way such as with Grappling, Disarming (without the improved feats) etc. If you wish to avoid attacks of opportunity while charging; make an acrobatics check as normal.
As for the rest of the creatures, I get an attack of opportunity foe each point of dex I have for each creature that comes across my threatened reach. Is this correct?
If you are referring to your Dex Modifier you are correct. A fighter with 16 (+3) dex can make 4 attacks of opportunity (1 normal 3 bonus from combat reflexes) not 17.
Charging does not provoke an AoO from the target of the charge. This was tragically omitted from the text on charge but if you look at the big chart of actions in the Combat section, you'll see that the Charge action lists "No" under the AoO column.
So if the guy you braced against is charging you, you do not get an AoO against him.
You still get your readied standard attack because you readied your "brace" weapon against that charge. After your one attack, if the charging enemy is still alive, he completes his charge and attacks you. Your initiative is moved to the same score as the charging enemy (because readying an action changes your initiative) but the tie-breaker goes to you so you'll act first on that number each round thereafter.
Please refer to your chart again, there is a 1 next to the Attacks of Opportunity pane. Drifting to the right you will see:
1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened
square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This
column indicates whether the action itself, not moving,
provokes an attack of opportunity.The attacks of opportunity : No part just indicates that there is no special attack of opportunity derived from attacking this way such as with Grappling, Disarming (without the improved feats) etc. If you wish to avoid attacks of opportunity while charging; make an acrobatics check as normal.
So, let me make sure I understand.
(and yes, I know all about that footnote)
Your claim is that the Charge action does not provoke an AoO, because the chart says so. But because of footnote #1, you believe the movement part of the Charge provokes an AoO. However, since it is impossible to Charge without moving, it is therefore impossible to Charge without provoking an AoO (if your target has reach), despite the fact that the same chart on which that footnote appears says that a Charge does not provoke.
Have I got that straight?
So, if that is your contention, then why does the chart say that Charge does not provoke? Are you also contending that this one chart contains mutually contradicting rules, a paradox that cannot be resolved?
This has actually been cleared up before. But my search-fu failed to find it.
Here's the clarity:
1. Charge does not provoke. You can charge an enemy without provoking, because the chart says so. This includes the ability to move to that enemy since movement is a requirement of the Charge.
2. Moving does provoke. If you move out of a threatened space, you provoke an AoO.
3. However, because of point 1 (Charge doesn't provoke), the target of your charge cannot take an AoO based upon your movement, even if he has sufficient reach that other (non-Charge) movement along the same path should provoke.
4. Further however, if your Charge should move out of a threatened space of any other hostile enemy, that movement provokes an AoO from that enemy since he is not the target of your Charge.
If you think about it, that's the only way to read that entire chart with no contradictions. Reading it your way creates a paradox or forces us to assume the author screwed up (which also forces us to pick a houserule of our choosing to decide which part of the chart is screwed up and therefore should be ignored).
If you are referring to your Dex Modifier you are correct. A fighter with 16 (+3) dex can make 4 attacks of opportunity (1 normal 3 bonus from combat reflexes) not 17.
As for the rest of the creatures, I get an attack of opportunity foe each point of dex I have for each creature that comes across my threatened reach. Is this correct?
So, you cannot safely Charge if you are mounted, or if you are wearing medium or heavy armor? And though you can Charge up to 2x your speed, you can really only move half your speed (or full speed with a penalty to your Acrobatics roll), so you really cannot safely Charge at any speed better than a walk? Is it even a charge if you're walking?
In those instances (mounted, medim+ armor, moving faster than a walk), Charging always provokes?
No, when you charge you give up a lot. You give up AC, you give up the ability to use many good feats like Cleave, Vital Strike, etc., and you put yourself out in harm's way. You're also limited to smooth terrain, no obstacles, straight lines, line of sight, etc., so it's not always easy to pull off in the first place. After all that, the least the ability can do is give you a clear line of approach to your enemy, the only risk being that he might have readied a "brace" weapon against your Charge.
It makes sense. Charge does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The movement caused by charge does. Imagine "charge" was a spell, they are saying actually "casting" charge does not provoke an attack. The movement and the attack it gives you are resolved as normal. They are trying to clear up the "full round action" part not the text of what charge gives you. You cannot make an unimproved disarm check at the end of a charge without an attack of opportunity by claiming you are charging.
The only other example I can show you is Ready. Which has the exact same charting issue. You cannot ready a move and move away with no attacks of opportunity.
The bottom line is the "text trumps chart" rule. Charge has no listing of avoiding attacks of opportunity.
PS- I'm getting tired of typing "opportunity" wrong and going back and fixing it =(
PSS - when all else fails cite Order of the Stick
Imagine "charge" was a spell, they are saying actually "casting" charge does not provoke an attack.
That's only true if you extend the analogy further:
You're saying that "casting" Charge does not provoke an AoO but "casting" it on an enemy does provoke an AoO.
Or to clarify, you're saying that Charge doesn't provoke, but charging an enemy does (if he has reach).
That just doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe when I'm less sleepy I will try the search engine again and see if I can dig up the offical clarification.
Actually there is no contradiction at all.
Charging does not provoke, because if it did moving into a threatened square as part of a charge would provoke (just like spellcasting in a threatened square, or firing a ranged weapon in a threatened square).
However, moving OUT of a threatened square is specifically listed under the table as provoking even if the item in question says it does not provoke.
If you walk out of a threatened square, it provokes, even though the act of walking does not provoke (I can walk next to an enemy without provoking).
There is really no contradiction or hole in the logic. The act of charging does not provoke. However, the ~movement you take as part of a charge~ can provoke.
Think of it this way: If you charged PAST an enemy (not the one you are charging at, of course), that enemy would obviously get an AoO against you due to your movement. In the same way, the enemy you are charging can get an AoO if your movement provokes from them - such as if they have reach, you don't, and you leave one of their threatened squares.
Or to clarify, you're saying that Charge doesn't provoke, but charging an enemy does (if he has reach).
To put it another way, this is exactly true, with that "if he has reach" that you put in parenthesis being the critical distinction. And actually it is "if he reach and you do not"; if you are charging with a lance against someone with reach, you do not provoke because your movement never takes you OUT of a threatened square.
Read 3.5 FAQ, the movement of the Charge, and any other movement, provokes AoOs (not the fact of doing an attack during a charge).
No line saying that "Charge doesn't provoke AoOs" was deleted.
The rules for AoOs due to movement are not for "Move" actions, apply to all kind of movement, it is written in table 8-2:
Note 1 (about what the "Attack of Opportunity" row means):
Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened
square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This
column indicates whether the action itself, not moving,
provokes an attack of opportunity.
Clear, imo.
Every action may have a exception for movement, withdraw has one, Charge doesn't.
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As I understand it charging as a medium creature to another medium creature does not provoke attacks of opportunity. That is what is meant by the full round action, charge, on page 183. Meaning there is no attack of opportunity for charging.
However, if you add that the creature being charged has a reach weapon; then, he gets an attack of opportunity cause of the little caveat, the "1" by every one of the "Attacks of Opportunity" listed on the charts on page 183, he gets a free attack at the charger.
The medium creature being charged has reach that is the difference in the situation. The little caveat "1" comes into effect. If the creature being charged has no reach weapon, the little caveat "1" does not come into effect.
As I understand it charging as a medium creature to another medium creature does not provoke attacks of opportunity. That is what is meant by the full round action, charge, on page 183. Meaning there is no attack of opportunity for charging.
However, if you add that the creature being charged has a reach weapon; then, he gets an attack of opportunity cause of the little caveat, the "1" by every one of the "Attacks of Opportunity" listed on the charts on page 183, he gets a free attack at the charger.
The medium creature being charged has reach that is the difference in the situation. The little caveat "1" comes into effect. If the creature being charged has no reach weapon, the little caveat "1" does not come into effect.
Agreed.
Also note that if you don't get an AoO from reach against a charging foe, then reach becomes relatively pointless, since it would become trivially easy to get inside an opponent's, any opponent's, reach.