3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.
Does the "Rake" option for the Eidolon count towards its maximum number of natural attacks? Literally taken I think it might however, they are not standard, but conditional attacks and the limitation that you can only take it from 4th level onwards otherwise does not seem to make any sense at all.
Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.
It does say "allowed to possess." And you would "possess" them... I think.
Anyway, I'm not sure, but I figured I'd quote the relevant section, for ease of answering for other people.
Does the "Rake" option for the Eidolon count towards its maximum number of natural attacks? Literally taken I think it might however, they are not standard, but conditional attacks and the limitation that you can only take it from 4th level onwards otherwise does not seem to make any sense at all.
No more than Rend counts for the limit of Nat attacks. Its more an ability than it is an attack.
Does the "Rake" option for the Eidolon count towards its maximum number of natural attacks? Literally taken I think it might however, they are not standard, but conditional attacks and the limitation that you can only take it from 4th level onwards otherwise does not seem to make any sense at all.
First the eidolon restrictions are on building an eidolon, not on using them.
To whit the eidolon could not have 4 natural attacks at first level (limit 3) even if they only ever used 3 at one time.
Second the eidolon rules are so filled with exceptions and special rules that what IS allowable becomes questionable.
Third, I would *think* that rake attacks, like rend attacks are special attacks and would *not* count towards this maximum. But 'official' rules could go any which way as they seem to have become arbitrary.
according the the natural attacks read out on the eidelon it says
Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of
natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the
given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take
evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does
not include attacks made with weapons.
so if you have a max 4 and you have 3 nat attacks and you take an evo that gives you 2 attacks making it 5 nat attacks can you still use all 5 because technically you didn't take any more after you went over your max?
so if you have a max 4 and you have 3 nat attacks and you take an evo that gives you 2 attacks making it 5 nat attacks can you still use all 5 because technically you didn't take any more after you went over your max?
The intent is clearly that your action economy for natural attacks maxes at 4(in this case), so realistically you shouldn't be able to take 5 just because you have the extra claw or whatever.
(keep in mind that Rake - the topic of this thread - counts as 1 attack toward the maximum possessed, but you get 2 attacks every time you qualify to rake, which can be more than once a round)
Now, in some readings, it could be assumed that such a creature never actually possesses the fifth attack (per the descriptive text from Broodmaster)
Spoiler:
Quote:
The broodmaster decides to give the first eidolon 4 skill points, one feat, a +1 armor bonus, a +1 bonus to Strength, 2 points from the evolution pool, and a maximum of two attacks. The remaining 4 skill points, +1 armor bonus, +1 bonus to Dexterity, and 2 points from the evolution pool go to the second eidolon, but it gains no feats and can have only one natural attack.
This doesn't actually limit a broodmaster from having more eidolons than "max natural attacks", so it's probably reasonable to assume that some of them are "defenseless"(or without natural weapons)
However that text shouldn't automatically apply to the base summoner, I'm only sharing it as a rough guideline to how it's been dealt with elsewhere.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rake (Ex): An eidolon grows dangerous claws on its feet, allowing it to make 2 rake attacks on foes it is grappling. These attacks are primary attacks. The eidolon receives these additional attacks each time it succeeds on a grapple check against the target. These rake attacks deal 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form. This evolution counts as one natural attack toward te eidolon's maximum. The summoner must be at least 4th level before selecting this evolution.
