As far as level 1 dips go the alchemist aint half bad.
just wondering how many people would look at a 1 level dip in this for any class that relies on melee or ranged attacks.
mutagen is a +4 to STR, DEX or CON your choice for 10 minutes , +2 natural armor ain't half bad either. -2 to a mental stat but that probably not your primary conern.
and since your never going to get an alchemical wonderous item stat buff it'll stack with everything.
plus you get 1 or 2 self buff extracts.
I see this taking the place of anyone who might have 1 level dipped into sorceror or wizard for some level 1 buffs.
sure its a 1/day but as a mostly full BAB charcater you won't need it all the time to stay good.
for example
Fighter 1/ Alchemist 1/full BAB class 18
for the cost of -1BAB d8 instead of d10, and maybe level 20 capstone
you get
+4 STR for 10 minutes per day
and
maybe +4 shield spell for 1 minute (handy for a 2h fighter)
or enlarge person for 1 minute (take you 2d6 to 3d6)
or
+4DEX for 10 minutes (+2 to ranged attacked, +2 AC)
And
again shield +4 AC
or reduce person (+2 attack and +2 AC, and your arrows go normal size once fired) again could potential stack for +4 attack and +4AC
or has potential for finesse builds
or CON for some bonus HP if thats your thing
extracts don't mind if your in heavy armor either.
heh you even get a couple of weak fire bombs in case you ever need fire take 2 level and you can make those bombs far more useful as smoke bombs you'd only have a few but would give you a taste of some solid battlefield control with being able to throw out 20' fog clouds
2 Level of Alchemist for a Rogue 18
Makes a a rogue who can lay down his own 20' concealing smoke bombs at 3rd level.
also gets you bonus DEX and reduce person if your hiding on the edge of the cloud throwing knives as sneak attacks.
Or a smoke bomb and expeditious retreat for getting the hell outta dodge in style :)
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The benefit of dips is almost always front loaded. You get a pretty big benefit right off the bat but every level after that the payoff is less and less as your higher level powers are delayed. Access to advanced rogue talents and high level abilities is delayed and for a 20 level build you lose the capstone.
Having never once seen level 20 in my 16 years of play, I don't really ever concern myself with level 20 abilities, aside from thinking "gee, that's kinda cute." I'd much rather have increased effectiveness throughout my early career and into my later career than hold out for something that I won't ever encounter.
That said, the best dip level for most characters is still the 3.5 Warlock, IMHO. Alchemist is pretty snazzy, though.
What kind of chips go best with Alchemical dip?
reduce person (+2 attack and +2 AC, and your arrows go normal size once fired)Unless Alchemists' Reduce Person is different than normal Reduce Person, your arrows still have reduced damage when fired.
Really, check out the Reduce Person entry in the Core Rulebook.
And then compare it to the enlarge person entry... fun times that.
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And then compare it to the enlarge person entry... fun times that.reduce person (+2 attack and +2 AC, and your arrows go normal size once fired)Unless Alchemists' Reduce Person is different than normal Reduce Person, your arrows still have reduced damage when fired.
Really, check out the Reduce Person entry in the Core Rulebook.
Reduce:
Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).ok depends how you read that
says projectile or thrown weapon return to normal size
and then in brakets projecticles deal dmg based on the size of weapon that fired them
which is inconsistent as hell
still for thwoing weapons reduce person works just fine
Yeah that's one half of what I said to do -- now go look at enlarge person which says something completely different.
Yeah that's one half of what I said to do -- now go look at enlarge person which says something completely different.
yes i know that why i said its inconsistent as hell
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Yeah that's one half of what I said to do -- now go look at enlarge person which says something completely different.yes i know that why i said its inconsistent as hell
Alchemists get around this whole thing, bombs damage equally whether you are dimminutive or huge. Kind of curious, pixies make great bombers.
Mixed with Fighter getting all those bonus fighter feats to make you a solid melee fighter, leaving you general feats to take Extra Discoveries
Alchimst 2/ Fighter X
you could potentially take any of these with your extra discovery feats
Acid Bomb
Frost Bomb
Shock Bomb
Explosive Bomb
(worthwhile if your improving your bomb dmg with feats)
Enhance Potion (not worth it since you alchy level is so low)
Extend Potion (maybe but probably no)
Ferral Mutagen (early levels this gives you fighter 3 attacks at full BAB and more dmg output than any other weapon)
Potent Bombs +1d6 potentially lets you scale up to full bomb dmg
Precise Bomb (not worth it)
Smoke Bomb (fog clouds for a fighter, handy for concealing yourself from ranged attackers while you deal with those in melee)
Stink Bomb (stinking cloud for a fighter, nothing like hitting neasuated foes who can't hit back)
only drawback for bombs is your save DC won't improve so at mid to high level you'll almost always hit for half damage.
EDIT: scratch the idea on bombs for damage , just realised potent bombs was cut from the APG from the beta.
and kinda worked out why since 25d6 fast bombs for 75d6 per round might have been a touch excessive ;)
Alchemists get around this whole thing, bombs damage equally whether you are dimminutive or huge. Kind of curious, pixies make great bombers.Yeah that's one half of what I said to do -- now go look at enlarge person which says something completely different.yes i know that why i said its inconsistent as hell
Soo want a pixie bomber.....i'd ask the Gm but he'd say no.
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Reduce:
Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).ok depends how you read that
says projectile or thrown weapon return to normal size
and then in brakets projecticles deal dmg based on the size of weapon that fired them
How does it depend on how you read it?
"Projectile weapons deal less damage"
"Projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them"
Both of these support that firing an arrow deals reduced-person damage.
And yes, the whole Enlarge-Reduce mess is annoying :P
Reduce:
Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).ok depends how you read that
says projectile or thrown weapon return to normal size
and then in brakets projecticles deal dmg based on the size of weapon that fired themHow does it depend on how you read it?
"Projectile weapons deal less damage"
"Projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them"Both of these support that firing an arrow deals reduced-person damage.
And yes, the whole Enlarge-Reduce mess is annoying :P
"Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size"
thats how you read it differently
I think I like the barb/alchemist 1/1 combo. +10 strength, Rage 4 Mutagen 4 Enlarge 2, Starting Str of 20.
30 Str! Yeeeooowza!
I also like, for fun not effectiveness (though it could be I suppose) Rogue Sniper 2 (min for snap shot), Diviner 1 (always act in the surprise round), Inquisitor 2 (if I remember correctly, for Wis to Init.) high dex and Wis...Trait for initiative and...wait for it....
assuming 18 dex 16 wis, you get a +7 init from stats. +4 for Improved Initiative. +1 from Diviner, +2 for the trait, and you ALWAYS get to act in the surprise round if you shoot something at a 20 initiative.
... so you're getting a +14 to initiative, if you shoot a static 34, and your sneak attack range increases with level... which matters until you get snipers goggles. Take powerful and lethal stealth (all Sneak dice that roll 1 or 2 are now considered 3's, if you're withing 30 all sneak dice do +2 damage, and you can ranged sneak from any range...) and you've built yourself a speedy little devil. (if I were building for effectiveness I'd probably drop the levels in Inquisitor, but I wanted a higher initiative for the example.)
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Soo want a pixie bomber.....i'd ask the Gm but he'd say no.I was thinking you would use an extract or use reduce person to change size not play a monster character.
Permanent reduce person, or farther down the line eternal reduce person on a gnome alchemist from small to tiny. Heh. Or permanent reduce person, eternal fly. Just be careful with those dispelling bombs of yours!
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"Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size"thats how you read it differently
And I already quoted:
"Projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them"
It doesn't matter the size of the arrow, its fired from a Small bow, it does Small damage.
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"Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size"thats how you read it differently
And I already quoted:
"Projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them"
It doesn't matter the size of the arrow, its fired from a Small bow, it does Small damage.
Well technically, a small bow does small damage not because of the size of the bow, but because the size of the arrow used. So if a normal arrow gets reduced down to small, when it gets shot from a small bow it seems to return to normal size and damage, which is 1d8. Thats how I see it anyway.
it can be interpretated different ways unfortunately