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So what exactly would be the goals of an Inquisitor of Gorum?
"Grim and determined, the inquisitor roots out enemies of
the faith, using trickery and guile when righteousness and
purity is not enough. Although inquisitors are dedicated
to a deity, they are above many of the normal rules and
conventions of the church. They answer to their deity and
their own sense of justice alone, and are willing to take
extreme measures to meet their goals."
Some things I pulled from Gods & Magic about Gorum:
He sees no value in diplomacy or negotiation.
He cares nothing for anything but war, and only valorous war — using poison, disease, or other cowardly methods to kill is the path of the weakling.
Though Torag is the tactical side of war, and Sarenrae the
necessity of war as a last resort, Gorum is the excitement,
battle-lust, and brutality of war.
So an Inquisitor of Gorum would:
1) Hunt down those who use poison or disease as weapons. (Could you argue other methods are also cowardly? using magic? using wood weapons like bows? He is the 'Lord in Iron' after all.)
2) Make sure battles are fought whenever possible? I take this to mean an Inquisitor of Gorum will disrupt negotiations between two groups to make sure they keep fighting. (Would the goals go as far as starting wars between groups where there was peace before?)
What else would an Inquisitor of Gorum do? I'm thinking maybe hunt down those who attack non-combatant sentient beings. Although this can be construed as 'good' by protecting the weak, it's actually punishment to the cowardly beings who prey on others who pose no threat to the attackers. Gorum sees glory in steel hacking through your enemies, not in cutting up near-defenseless sentient beings for dinner.
Any other ideas? Am I on the right track?
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1) Hunt down those who use poison or disease as weapons. (Could you argue other methods are also cowardly? using magic? using wood weapons like bows? He is the 'Lord in Iron' after all.)
Definitely eliminating those who bring dishonorable options to warfare. Poison and disease, yes. Certain types of magic...like enchantments and illusions might be fair game. But I wouldn't see him being upset about wood vs. iron weapons. Gorum champions all weapons of war. The greatsword is just his favorite.
2) Make sure battles are fought whenever possible? I take this to mean an Inquisitor of Gorum will disrupt negotiations between two groups to make sure they keep fighting. (Would the goals go as far as starting wars between groups where there was peace before?)
Fomenting unrest between rivals would likely be just fine for an Inquisitor of Gorum. And he'd probably reserve the right to swing his blade for both sides.
What else would an Inquisitor of Gorum do? I'm thinking maybe hunt down those who attack non-combatant sentient beings.
Definitely a worthy goal. Wars are fought between warriors. Genocide isn't a means to an end. Gorum wants perpetual struggle, a continuance of war between all peoples. For it's in the testing of one army against another, one warrior against another, where his interest lies. Therefore, attacking non-combatants in an effort to wipe out families and an entire people probably isn't something he would favor. Some cultures (like orcs, maybe?) might interpret that view differently. But I doubt they'd be viewed as true followers of Gorum.
Any other ideas? Am I on the right track?
Big-time mission would have to include hunting down deserters and cowards who fled the battlefield. Rescue missions to retrieve captured warriors important to Gorum's cause or an upcoming conflict. He might be asked to single out champions of opposing armies and lay them low in personal combat. Rambo-style raids against opposing forces. Guerilla warfare. Maybe even protecting villages and non-warriors against invaders. A good example of this could probably be gleaned from the movie Soldier starring Kurt Russell.
I could also see an Inquisitor of Gorum being tasked with recovering a weapon or artifact of significance that someone stole from their tribe, clan, or fallen champion. Or he could be dispatched as an agent for punishing violaters of an ancient warrior's tomb (a la Armag's tomb in the Blood for Blood adventure for Kingmaker). Or, maybe he's asked to find the son of a chieftain or priest who shirked his duty or calling as a warrior. And they want the Inquisitor to find him before others realize his sin or cowardice and embarrass them.
My two-cents,
--Neil
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So an Inquisitor of Gorum would:
1) Hunt down those who use poison or disease as weapons. (Could you argue other methods are also cowardly? using magic? using wood weapons like bows? He is the 'Lord in Iron' after all.)
2) Make sure battles are fought whenever possible? I take this to mean an Inquisitor of Gorum will disrupt negotiations between two groups to make sure they keep fighting. (Would the goals go as far as starting wars between groups where there was peace before?)
Those who encourage or supply the use of 'equalizers' to a weaker force, allowing it to 'dishonorably' oppose a stronger force, whether that be poison or disease or magical support, would probably be on Gorum's crap list.
A specific example of such a battle, lost not due to weakness, but due to some 'cheat' on the part of the other side, could serve as inspiration for someone to become an Inquisitor of Gorum. If the Battle of X was only lost because of elven subterfuge or gnomish trickery or Chelish pacts with infernal powers, the Inquisitor-to-be could have been a survivor of a proud force that was militarily superior to those they faced, but were routed due to such scurrilous tactics by those who refused to 'fight like men.'
Gorumites (or those that pay lip-service to his name) who have enhanced their own glory or reputations by using magical cheats or pre-weakening foes with drugs or similar 'equalizers' could be seen as similar traitors to the faith, lacking confidence in their own strength and the support of Gorum to win their battles, and using sinister and low means to forge false reputations for great strength and success on the field of battle.
An Inquisitor of Gorum might be the perfect advocate for a Brevonian or River Kingdoms judge of the Aldori Sword Pact, watching over duels to make sure that both participants rely primarily on their strength of body and spirit and steel, and do not advance their station through magical or chemical perfidy. The poisoners of Daggermark would be greatly loathed (and perhaps have a under-the-table business supplying less noble duellists with drugs that subtly enhance someone's performance for a duel, or all-but-untracable toxins that every so slightly weaken a foe, without any obvious signs). Even the tiniest advantage might be sought, however dishonorably, by a young competitor, unsure of his own skills, or an aging one, unwilling to accept that his reflexes are no longer what they were in his prime.
Certain types of magic...like enchantments and illusions might be fair game.
I agree with that, a fireball in the face is fairgame but try and trick someone into a pit with an illusion and face the wraith of Gorum!
Big-time mission would have to include hunting down deserters and cowards who fled the battlefield. Rescue missions to retrieve captured warriors important to Gorum's cause or an upcoming conflict. He might be asked to single out champions of opposing armies and lay them low in personal combat. Rambo-style raids against opposing forces. Guerilla warfare. Maybe even protecting villages and non-warriors against invaders. A good example of this could probably be gleaned from the movie Soldier starring Kurt Russell.
I could also see an Inquisitor of Gorum being tasked with recovering a weapon or artifact of significance that someone stole from their tribe, clan, or fallen champion. Or he could be dispatched as an agent for punishing violaters of an ancient warrior's tomb (a la Armag's tomb in the Blood for Blood adventure for Kingmaker). Or, maybe he's asked to find the son of a chieftain or priest who shirked his duty or calling as a warrior. And they want the Inquisitor to find him before others realize his sin or cowardice and embarrass them.
Excellent ideas Neal, thanks. Rescuing a captured warrior and hunting down deserters are right on the money.
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Those who encourage or supply the use of 'equalizers' to a weaker force, allowing it to 'dishonorably' oppose a stronger force, whether that be poison or disease or magical support, would probably be on Gorum's crap list.
A specific example of such a battle, lost not due to weakness, but due to some 'cheat' on the part of the other side, could serve as inspiration for someone to become an Inquisitor of Gorum. If the Battle of X was only lost because of elven subterfuge or gnomish trickery or Chelish pacts with infernal powers, the Inquisitor-to-be could have been a survivor of a proud force that was militarily superior to those they faced, but were routed due to such scurrilous tactics by those who refused to 'fight like men.'
Gorumites (or those that pay lip-service to his name) who have enhanced their own glory or reputations by using magical cheats or pre-weakening foes with drugs or similar 'equalizers' could be seen as similar traitors to the faith, lacking confidence in their own strength and the support of Gorum to win their battles, and using sinister and low means to forge false reputations for great strength and success on the field of battle.
An Inquisitor of Gorum might be the perfect advocate for a Brevonian or River Kingdoms judge of the Aldori Sword Pact, watching over duels to make sure that both participants rely primarily on their strength of body and spirit and steel, and do not advance their station through magical or chemical perfidy. The poisoners of Daggermark would be greatly loathed (and perhaps have a under-the-table business supplying less noble duellists with drugs that subtly enhance someone's performance for a duel, or all-but-untracable toxins that every so slightly weaken a foe, without any obvious signs). Even the tiniest advantage might be sought, however dishonorably, by a young competitor, unsure of his own skills, or an aging one, unwilling to accept that his reflexes are no longer what they were in his prime.
More good stuff, thanks Set. So now a list of goals may look something like:
1) Destroy those using poison, disease, or trickery to win battles instead of strength of arms. This also includes those who create or distribute those methods for others.2) Foment war whenever possible, especially between natural rivals.
3) Hunt down and kill anyone who attacks sentient non-combatants.
4) Hunt down deserters (but not necessarily kill them) to ANY cause - good or evil, lawful or chaotic.
5) Challenge enemy champions to one-on-one combat.
6) Defend villages and non-warriors from invaders.
7) Watch over duels to ensure fair trial by combat.
8) Protect tombs of honorable warriors and hunt down those who violate such tombs.
9) Rescue captured warriors who fought bravely before being defeated.
The Gorumskagat (Gorum's holy "book") is a collection of 7 heroic poems..it looks like so far I have 9 items so not quite a perfect match up as far as 1 poem per 'goal', but when I first start wracking my brain nothing much came to mind and I'd rather have too many ideas than not enough.
Just want to pop in and say that these are some inspiring ideas. I haven't really been that interested in inquisitors, but this thread may change that.
Edited to point out unintentional alliteration.
I'd also add that an Inquisitor of Gorum would most certainly be tasked with hunting down heretics. So, if someone's been abusing their station by espousing a different set of tenets regarding those 7 epic poems, you better believe there's an Inquisitor ready to lay them low in service to the true faith of the Lord in Iron.
I'd also add that an Inquisitor of Gorum would most certainly be tasked with hunting down heretics. So, if someone's been abusing their station by espousing a different set of tenets regarding those 7 epic poems, you better believe there's an Inquisitor ready to lay them low in service to the true faith of the Lord in Iron.
I'd think that would apply to any Inquisitor, not just of Gorum. Just the circumstances of what would constitute heresy would change.
After all, the class didn't get its name from the Spanish Inquisition for nothing.
My question, though: is an Inquisitor of Gorum going to be able to recognize the difference between cowardice and a strategic withdrawal in the face of clearly superior opposition? Surely it serves Gorum's interests more for his faithful to live to fight another day (creating far more battle and combat) than to have his servant die pitifully in a hopeless encounter.
What's an Inquisitor of Gorum to do when the lone kobold he's fighting throws down its sword and surrenders? Obviously this sort of cowardice is unacceptable, but so is, apparently, cutting down defenseless sentient beings. Does he demand the kobold retrieve its weapon and wait for it do so? Which aspect wins out if the kobold refuses - punishing cowardice or not killing helpless beings? Do Inquisitors of Gorum refuse to coup de grace? I'm thinking no on that last one because it was through your skill in battle that you reduced your opponent to the helpless state.
My question, though: is an Inquisitor of Gorum going to be able to recognize the difference between cowardice and a strategic withdrawal in the face of clearly superior opposition? Surely it serves Gorum's interests more for his faithful to live to fight another day (creating far more battle and combat) than to have his servant die pitifully in a hopeless encounter.
What's an Inquisitor of Gorum to do when the lone kobold he's fighting throws down its sword and surrenders? Obviously this sort of cowardice is unacceptable, but so is, apparently, cutting down defenseless sentient beings. Does he demand the kobold retrieve its weapon and wait for it do so? Which aspect wins out if the kobold refuses - punishing cowardice or not killing helpless beings? Do Inquisitors of Gorum refuse to coup de grace? I'm thinking no on that last one because it was through your skill in battle that you reduced your opponent to the helpless state.
My attitude, at least for this type of god, has always been that if someone surrenders then they have willingly given up their right to fight back. Any punishment you decide to give them, including death, is fair. Proper ettiquette is to offer them the chance to pick up their weapon to fight back, and, if they don't, gut them like a pig.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My attitude, at least for this type of god, has always been that if someone surrenders then they have willingly given up their right to fight back. Any punishment you decide to give them, including death, is fair. Proper ettiquette is to offer them the chance to pick up their weapon to fight back, and, if they don't, gut them like a pig.
"Honor, Kurgan? From you?"
"It is all we have."I think that a surrender of a peer would be accepted. Think when a General surrenders a fort (ala Last of the Mohicans).
Surrender is honorable, for those who surrender may have a chance to redeem themselves in a later battle, but those who flee with piss on their legs are best cut down before they shame themselves again.
An outnumbered force of warriors that melts into the woods so it can ambush its enemy later is not full of cowards. Warriors retreat from battle because they want to win the next battle; cowards flee a battle because they fear death and wish to avoid the next battle.
So the lone kobold does not have a 'gut me' sign on his head, but if he waits until the inquisitor has sheathed his sword, then springs a careful trap, he's using duplicity and not war.
Personally I think Gorum needs to read some Clauswitz.
My question, though: is an Inquisitor of Gorum going to be able to recognize the difference between cowardice and a strategic withdrawal in the face of clearly superior opposition? Surely it serves Gorum's interests more for his faithful to live to fight another day (creating far more battle and combat) than to have his servant die pitifully in a hopeless encounter.
What's an Inquisitor of Gorum to do when the lone kobold he's fighting throws down its sword and surrenders? Obviously this sort of cowardice is unacceptable, but so is, apparently, cutting down defenseless sentient beings. Does he demand the kobold retrieve its weapon and wait for it do so? Which aspect wins out if the kobold refuses - punishing cowardice or not killing helpless beings? Do Inquisitors of Gorum refuse to coup de grace? I'm thinking no on that last one because it was through your skill in battle that you reduced your opponent to the helpless state.
I ran a character like this once in 3.5, a halfling barbarian with a high sense of honor who would never attack a defenseless enemy. Goblins kept surrendering to her, which completely infuriated her. After a bit of "Pick up your sword and fight me! ... FIGHT ME! ... ", she had to settle for cursing them as they ran away -- and making sure they knew her name so they could tell everyone who they ran from.
If she lived in Golarion, she'd definitely be a Gorum-worshipper.
My attitude, at least for this type of god, has always been that if someone surrenders then they have willingly given up their right to fight back. Any punishment you decide to give them, including death, is fair. Proper ettiquette is to offer them the chance to pick up their weapon to fight back, and, if they don't, gut them like a pig."Honor, Kurgan? From you?"
"It is all we have."I think that a surrender of a peer would be accepted. Think when a General surrenders a fort (ala Last of the Mohicans).
Surrender is honorable, for those who surrender may have a chance to redeem themselves in a later battle, but those who flee with piss on their legs are best cut down before they shame themselves again.
An outnumbered force of warriors that melts into the woods so it can ambush its enemy later is not full of cowards. Warriors retreat from battle because they want to win the next battle; cowards flee a battle because they fear death and wish to avoid the next battle.
So the lone kobold does not have a 'gut me' sign on his head, but if he waits until the inquisitor has sheathed his sword, then springs a careful trap, he's using duplicity and not war.
Personally I think Gorum needs to read some Clauswitz.
True, he does see a difference between surrender when bested and surrender out of fear. He is willing to accpet surrender form those who fight honorably or admit they are not strong enough for the potential fight, but those who surrender out of cowardice are the ones he guts.
I don't think an Inquisitor of Gorum would be compelled to accept surrender or not. An enemy was defeated and it's at the whim of the Inquisitor whether or not to accept the surrender or gut the defeated foe. The goal I was trying to convey was 'do not kill non-combatants', not do not kill a dangerous foe who doesn't happen to have a weapon. If a trained soldier or monster throws down their weapon and surrenders, they aren't a non-combatant - they are a defeated foe.
Is someone who fought bravely and surrenders considered a heretic? Definitely not, but live or die is of little consequence to the Inquisitor of Gorum.
You know at first when I saw this thread I was thinking that an Inquisitor of Gorum would make for some real stretching in order to implement. However, I'd have to say I am really intrigued by the suggestions here so THANK YOU all. I may be introducing an Inquisitor of Gorum into my Kingmaker campaign very soon :)
Additionally, perhaps some inspiration for a character could come from Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett's rendition of the Horsewoman of War in their book Good Omens. Scarlet definitely seems up to the task of putting on the iron-shod Inquisitor shoes for Our Lord in Iron.
Here is a linkavitch to a lexicon site discussing the character for those that are unfamiliar with the book.
I think I would pay actual money to have a small book of stuff like this for Inquisitors of every major deity. Some deities are obvious (Pharasmite Inquisitors would hunt down and destroy undead and necromancers, for example), but most really aren't. For example, what would an Inquisitor of Erastil do?
I do not think I saw anyone else mention it, but part 5 of the Kingmaker adventure path is the one with the write-up on Gorum. I do not have it yet, so I cannot say if there is anything relating to inquisitors as part of that, but I am sure that someone else reading and posting in this thread can answer that question.
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I absolutely love the idea of CN inquisitors of Gorum enforcing an even playing field between combatants.
For example, what would an Inquisitor of Erastil do?
Make sure hunters don't deplete the stock.
Enforce the proper rotation of crops.Keep "social ills" from the cities from taking root in small communities.
Showing up randomly at families' doorsteps to ensure that they're providing a stable environment for their children.
Hiding under the beds of married couples to be certain no contraceptives are being used.
I absolutely love the idea of CN inquisitors of Gorum enforcing an even playing field between combatants.
For example, what would an Inquisitor of Erastil do?Make sure hunters don't deplete the stock.
Enforce the proper rotation of crops.
Keep "social ills" from the cities from taking root in small communities.
Showing up randomly at families' doorsteps to ensure that they're providing a stable environment for their children.
Hiding under the beds of married couples to be certain no contraceptives are being used.
Or maybe take care off The Hook Mountain Massacre! If you look at it from that point of view it's right in the main target for Erastil!
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I think I would pay actual money to have a small book of stuff like this for Inquisitors of every major deity. Some deities are obvious (Pharasmite Inquisitors would hunt down and destroy undead and necromancers, for example), but most really aren't. For example, what would an Inquisitor of Erastil do?
+1
I think I would pay actual money to have a small book of stuff like this for Inquisitors of every major deity. Some deities are obvious (Pharasmite Inquisitors would hunt down and destroy undead and necromancers, for example), but most really aren't. For example, what would an Inquisitor of Erastil do?
I was tempted to make one of the Kingmaker NPCs one.
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OOhhh man this is so perfect, so when my wife joined the game, we made her an inquisitor of Gorum because it gave her greatsword proficiency, at the time we knew nothing of him other than the one line in the PRPG, now I'm reading about him in the AP and listening to what people say from other sources here on the board, and it fits her character perfectly.
For example, my wife isn't that big on roleplay so when they aren't in battle my wife sits a little sullenly only talking to encourage getting to the next fight or place of battle (she loves combat and kicking ass lol). When in combat she gets all happy especially when she gets her bane and judgements going.
It actually bothered me just a little, but now I know she's actually been in character this entire time, it makes it great and I can't wait till the next game.
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I absolutely love the idea of CN inquisitors of Gorum enforcing an even playing field between combatants.
For example, what would an Inquisitor of Erastil do?Make sure hunters don't deplete the stock.
Enforce the proper rotation of crops.
Keep "social ills" from the cities from taking root in small communities.
Showing up randomly at families' doorsteps to ensure that they're providing a stable environment for their children.
Hiding under the beds of married couples to be certain no contraceptives are being used.
In that vein, seeking out 'deadbeat dads' and dragging them back to their responsibilities by their ear.
Rooting out dens of drug-use, gambling and prostitution, as all detract from the family-stability thing he's got going on.
Hunting down grooms who 'get cold feet' and are about to skip out on their own wedding, even if it is, as they say, a 'crossbow wedding.' Runaway brides are less Erastil's purview, fortunately, as that's a forty-five page argument waiting to happen. It's more socially acceptable to hunt down a man and force him into a marriage he's trying to escape than it is to do the same with a woman.
The fun comes with the chaotic gods.
What egregiously violates the tenets of Desna? (Gypsy-killin' Nazis, er, I mean, Chels!)
Who do the Inquisitors of Cayden Cailean consider the 'Most Wanted?' (Carrie Nation!)
Do people who earn the Achievement Feat 'Gnoll Killer' have to fear the Inquisitors of Lamashtu, seeking out those who tout a reputation for killing her favored children?
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The fun comes with the chaotic gods.Who do the Inquisitors of Cayden Cailean consider the 'Most Wanted?' (Carrie Nation!)
This one at least is easy, Slavers, Inquisitors of Cayden Cailean hunt down slavers and break up illegal slave rings.
This one at least is easy, Slavers, Inquisitors of Cayden Cailean hunt down slavers and break up illegal slave rings.
The fun comes with the chaotic gods.Who do the Inquisitors of Cayden Cailean consider the 'Most Wanted?' (Carrie Nation!)
They fight prohibitionists at every turn, and make sure drink is available to all. They fight against those who would do harm to the crops, lest First Brewing be disrupted. They fight to make sure everyone has a right to decide what they want to do with their own life, and force those people to chose.
I admit I'm choosing this deity for the same reason (greatsword proficiency). Our group is just starting a Kingmaker campaign.
My approach is that inquisitors aren't strictly adhering to all the tenets of their deity's church (otherwise I'd imagine they'd really just be clerics). So my character is going to be a proponent of battle, but not mindless battle. Her motto would be "rusty swords shatter easily", so she will advocate fighting as the best way to train for when it's really needed.
Otherwise I couldn't really see her sticking with the Kingmaker campaign for too long -- having the party create a kingdom would kind of lead to some stability in the region, which a true CN follower of Gorum would seem to abhor.
I admit I'm choosing this deity for the same reason (greatsword proficiency). Our group is just starting a Kingmaker campaign.
My approach is that inquisitors aren't strictly adhering to all the tenets of their deity's church (otherwise I'd imagine they'd really just be clerics). So my character is going to be a proponent of battle, but not mindless battle. Her motto would be "rusty swords shatter easily", so she will advocate fighting as the best way to train for when it's really needed.
Otherwise I couldn't really see her sticking with the Kingmaker campaign for too long -- having the party create a kingdom would kind of lead to some stability in the region, which a true CN follower of Gorum would seem to abhor.
I agree with most of this, though an Inquisitor or Cleric of Gorum could just as easily have an Arena built in their kingdom and use it to encourage gladiatorial games or the like as a way of honoring the Father of Battles. After all, it's what they did in Tymon. Its ruler worships (or at least fervently honors) Gorum; and Tymon has been around for, what, more than a thousand years? I think that kingdom building and ruling is by no means impossible for an inquisitor.
But then I also have to admit that I see inquisitors as a class as being as much about the melee. They sacrifice some of their divine power to enhance their ability to lop heads, which is certainly something Gorum would approve of.
Last of all, I see cults devoted to the daemon lord Szuriel, Horseman of War, as being natural enemies for devout Gorumites. They eschew honorable and forthright battle for poison and sickness and the deliberate slaughter of non-combatants. They also go out of their way to recruit warriors and mercenaries to their foul lord's banner, weakening the Lord in Iron and sullying the concept of fair battle.
And hmm, now I have the idea of a more peaceful faith or group covertly supporting a cult of Szuriel-worshipping heretics in the Church of Gorum in the hopes of bringing the whole thing out into the open and discrediting the god and his followers. Good idea?
Interesting. I guess eventually the character start using her abilities to root out not only enemies of her faith, but maybe also enemies of her kingdom.
Still have time to play with other character concepts, but I'm liking this quite a bit. Thanks.
